Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Trudy,                             
    
    I know exactly what you mean.  All the - so called - friends I had
    when I was married, are no where to be found now that I am divorced.
    
    I guess being around a divorced woman, was too uncomfortable for
    them, but I imagine if I had been a widow instead, they could have
    dealt with sympathy, it's tangible.  There's no guess work involved.
    But with divorce, it can be a touchy situation, because they were
    friends with you and your former spouse and maybe they feel that
    by being with you they are taking sides.
    
    At least that's how I rationalized the reason why I am never invited
    out with my "old, married" friends, er ex-friends.
    
    Toodles,
    	-Dotti

    When I have been around separated/people, especially those working
    thru the distress phase, I have felt very threatened if they were
    positive about their situation.  My sense of threat increased as
    my marriage deteriorated.  It wasn't like it was infectious, but
    I was trying to avoid something (divorce) that was being presented
    in a positive light.  That was more incongruent than I could deal
    with.  On the other hand, being around separated/divorced folks
    who were *MISERABLE* was very easy and comforting for me at that
    time.

    It's sad that those times when we could most need that friendship
    or companionship of friends, we are most feared.  Is it because
    "divorced", "widowed", or "singled" people perhaps remind those
    who are not any of those things that it can happen to them also?
    
    Steve

    
    My only experience in this sort of situation was as a somewhat neutral
    party.  A woman I knew arrived as a new employee at an office I
    worked at (not at DEC) in the middle of a less than amicable divorce.
    
    I came in one time and she was pretty upset, and I asked her what
    was wrong and she told me all the rotten things that seemed to be
    happening all at once.  We became very close as time went on, even
    though we were very different people.
    
    Things eased up, and now she has remarried.  I'm very
    happy for her, though now I don't see much of her any more.  I can
    remember wondering at first why she should choose to seek moral
    support from a male just out of his teens whose only other knowledge
    of the word 'divorce' was from the thesaurus.  It took me time to
    realize that I was one of a very few people standing in her corner
    at the time.
    
    It has given me a new understanding of how alone people can be,
    and how anyone, no matter how capable or wordly-wise, can need someone
    to lean on for a little while.  While the vast majority of my
    acquaintance is still single or just beginning married life, this
    experience has given me some insight as to what can happen if things
    go wrong.
    
    DFW

    It would seem that the divorced female could possibly represent
    a threat to the married female. Because she no longer has a "regular"
    around, the hubby of her friends is, in the mind of the married
    one, off limits and the temptation must be removed. If the divorcee
    finds a new partner, friend, etc. the threat is lessened and the
    friendship is slowly rekindled........by the married female.
    
    Maybe I'm wrong, but the situation is often uncomfortable when singles
    go out with marrieds because the marrieds don't want to insult the
    single by making her/him feel that he/she can't afford as a single
    what was affordable as a married. Also, if the people were friends
    as couples, the married couple may be friends with both of the divorced
    persons and if the separation was hostile, the evening could be
    the same if names were mentioned etc.
    
    Ken

    Please insert the word "never" in the next to last line after the
    word "could" in the last reply.......thank you

    
       <<< QUARK::DISK$AUX_DISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HUMAN_RELATIONS.NOTE;1 >>>
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Note 149.0                 We (divorced)Need You, Too!                No replies
CURIE::LEVITAN                                       57 lines  13-NOV-1986 16:31
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    Somehow or another - most of you missed the point - except
    .1 Dotti -- you may be right about couples feeling uncomfortable
    around a divorced woman.  People can deal sympathetically to a widow
    (or widower) always encouraging them to "pick up the pieces."
    
    I found that a few couples tried to maintain friendship with my
    ex as well as myself - but he chose another life - and part of that
    was to break off with the friends from the old life.  Therefore,
    I was there - and wanted their friendship and quiet support.  I
    say quiet because I made a conscious decision that one who bemoans
    her/his fate to all who are in the listening area - is nothing more
    than a bore.  Therefore, I chose one very close friend and asked
    her if I could dump on her.  She agreed - and boy, did I dump for
    a few months.  She was a lifesaver.
    
    .4 Steve - you are so right when you state "it can happen to them
    also."  I rarely mentioned my ex - especially in bitterness but
    I did have one experience that showed me someone else's fear.  I
    was visiting a married friend - and out of the blue she asked me
    if I felt that all men "fool around" at some time in their married
    life.  (She's extremely attractive married to an extremely handsome
    man.)  Without thinking - without hesitation - I said, "Of course."
    I've never heard from her again.  It puzzled me because I'm nowhere
    as attractive as she - don't have the figure she has - but I guess
    when one is insecure - it doesn't matter what the "other woman"
    looks like.
    
    .5 DFW - you were a good friend for someone who needed one at a
    very important time in her life.  What you learned from the experience
    should not sway you from taking risk.  (This, from someone who is
    afraid to take risk - but will push others to do so.  Youth is
    resilient.)
    
    .6 Ken - regarding "can't afford as a single what was affordable
    as a married" - unless one is destitute - what about a movie?  what
    about a "reasonable" restaurant?  what about BEING ASKED?
    
    That's basically what I meant in my base note.  I am friends with
    a married couple - have been since high school.  I KNOW that I can
    call up and say, "What are you guys doing tonight?  Going to a movie?
    May I join you?"  and, unless they have plans with others, I KNOW
    I'm always welcome - but why don't they ever call me to ask me as
    I know they've done for widows?  I'm also sorry to say I've seen
    it in my family.  When my sister-in-law's sister became a widow,
    she was invited out more in her first few months than I was in my
    first few years.
    
    I rarely date - my family and friends know this - yet I am (almost)
    always in an up mood - I'm not a drag - I've got a good sense of
    humor and never dwell on my aloneness - I'm considered good company
    but ----------.  I finally got nerve enough to ask a friend why
    she didn't invite me - and she was very surprised!  She just assumed
    that I am busy with my single friends and "besides, you know you
    can call us any time and we'd LOVE to have you join us!"  "But,"
    said I, "You called xxxxx (widow), why not me?"  SHE NEEDED US!
    Hey guys, what about me?  Just because I don't cry to you, does
    that mean that I don't need your company?