|  |     Yes, an autopsy is an option.  Given the pre-existing condition though,
    some would say an unnecessary expense.  The vet is only human and works
    with a limited amount of information, relying mostly on what we, the
    bird's owner, tell him or her.  There might have been something in the
    cage that the bird caught its tongue on that was not removed (maybe 
    the subject never came up of looking for sharp objects in the cage?).
    I have had 'tiels catch themselves on swings I hadn't noticed had
    developed a dangerous opening in the loop that attached the swing to the
    ceiling of the cage.  I haven't heard anything about 'tiels or other
    birds being known for _often and regularly_ biting their tongues, but
    sure, they could I suppose.  I think it is more likely that the bird
    encountered the same object again or irritated the wound trying to
    crack a sunflower shell, for instance, which would have started the
    bleeding again.  
    
    It is always tragic to try to help, then have the bird die without you 
    there.  I extend my sincerest sympathies to your friend, having been 
    through this myself.  There is only so much an owner or a vet can do.  
    
    Eleven is in the twilight years for most 'tiels, although there are always 
    exceptions.  It could be that the stress of being reinjured was enough to 
    tip the scales.  If your friend does talk to the vet, it may help the vet 
    understand at least what happened here.  Yes, maybe next time the vet would
    recommend an antibiotic, but often minor flesh wounds heal just fine so 
    long as they are kept clean, and antibiotics bring with them their own 
    health hazards.  And yes, maybe the bird could have been on soft foods for 
    longer--it is always a judgement call that _both_ the vet and the
    owner make, hopefully together.  
    
    I had a vet tell me to separate a female lovebird from her mate while 
    I was giving her injections to treat her for lead poisoning (She chewed
    some paint off a window sill when she got out through a cage door I
    stupidly didn't not check to be sure it was locked--she's a notorious
    escape artist to this day.)  She was very underweight.  I decided
    it was more important that her mate be with her (he fed her regularly
    and helped her gain weight) and in this case I turned out to be right.
    I could have been wrong.  I decided the vet was telling me the standard
    thing, but this pair was and is very bonded and separation would harm
    them both. (They have five beautiful babies in the nest right now...)  
    
    Your friend did their best and so did the vet.  If your friend lacks 
    confidence in the vet's judgement now, perhaps it is best to move on.
    But the next vet is also only going to be able to apply the art of
    avian medicine.  It is not yet and may never be an exact science.
    Oh how I wish it were.....
    
    Be sure the vet is an avian specialist, not someone who 'also treats 
    birds'.  Membership in AAV (the Association of Avian Veterinarians) is 
    usually a sign of at least a serious interest in this area, but does
    _not_ guarantee competence or experience.  There are no pre-requisites 
    to membership.  (Anyone is welcome to join and receive the magazine who
    is willing to spend the money to learn more about what is being done
    today in avian medicine.)  
    
    Linda
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|  |     Linda,
    
    Thanks very much for the long reply.  I'll pass along your thoughts to
    my friends.
    
    As far as sharp things in the cage, that was suggested to them and they
    checked several
    times but could not find anything.  An autopsy was done and
    it is suspected that Dusty had some form of liver disease.  I believe
    more tests have been done and they are
    waiting on the results.
    
    Again, thanks so much for sharing your experience.
    
    Laurie
    
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|  |     Laurie
    
    It's always very painful when a pet bird dies if this bird had a long
    life or not. Six weeks ago my triton cockatoo died, unexpectedly for
    me, after more than twelve years close relationship. She was like a
    two-year old child for me. And we had tough times together as she had
    several diseases during this time. But at last, we lost the fight.
    And she died very fast in a special hospital for birds, which I only
    found last year. We knew that she had a kidney disease for which
    she got some injections all three months. I put her to the hospital
    when there came some blood out of her beak. And, after the autopsie,
    we know that the had a liver desease so for small injuries the blood
    could not coagulate anymore. The bleeded to death internal and nobody
    was able to notice it in time.
    
    But, from the autopsie we learnt, too, that she was very, very old,
    about 90 years or more. But I only knew her for the last 12 years...
    
    Ilona
    
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