Conference 7.286::pet_birds

    Steve,
    
    Your lifestyle would be unsuitable for a single pet parrot. 
    No discussion possible.
    
    However if you are prepared to make proper arrangement you could still
    enjoy having a parrot.
    You'l have to realise though that your "case" is stretching it to the
    outmost limit. If you don't get it right the birds will suffer in the
    long run.
    1. You HAVE to go for a couple. Get two parrots, wether male or female or
    even of the same species is paramount. Any two of compairable format
    and compatible temperament will do. Cockatoos usually combine very good
    with an Amazon or Macaw. You would probably even be better of with two
    seperate species since you wouldn't want them to get into a breeding
    mode, that wouldn't be fair on them. 
    2. Find captive bred, handraised chicks of about 12-16 weeks old so you
    get them at the most flexible age and can get them accustomed to your
    routine.
    3. Get a hardy, stress-resistant species:
    Any large Macaw, any Cockatoo, most of the Amazones: the Blue and gold
    macaw and the Greater sulpher crested cockatoo I would consider your
    best bet.
    Stay away from the African Grey, African longwinged parrots, the Vasa, 
    Pionus species, Conures, Lories, Eclectus- and some Amazone species.
    4. Buy two cages �nd a perch stand: one roomy, practical travel cage 
    and a very large one at home, put the perch at you girlfriends
    location.
    5. Stick to a fixed routine and time-schedule as closely as possible!
    
    So be prepared to spend money or forget it. Any shortcut in
    equipment or choice of birds will be crossing the line.
    Costs to be minimally expected:
    - Large cage 350 pounds, travel cage 100, perch 200, b/g macaw 750, gsc
    cockie 500, food and accessoires 100, totalling up to at least some
    2000 pounds!
    Choosing alternative but cheaper species is the only possible way to 
    cut costs but even if you'd go for a Sulpher crested cockie and a 
    Blue-fronted amazone you'd only save 500 pounds maximum.
                          
    I do some travelling with my Cockatoos and they have even got to
    enjoy it, be carefull they stay out of drafts though.
    Be sure your girlfriend wants them too. They can and will make a
    dreadfull mess and the only silent parrots are the stuffed ones.
    So, if you have the funds, the attitude, the patience and the right 
    girlfriend....
    
    Let us know.
    
    Peter

    
    Thanx for the reply. Seems like I've got a lot of thinking to do!
    
    Maybe I'll move the girlfriend... 8-]
    
    Steve
    

    
    RE: .1
    
    > 3. Get a hardy, stress-resistant species:
    > Any large Macaw, any Cockatoo, most of the Amazones: the Blue and gold
    > macaw and the Greater sulpher crested cockatoo I would consider your
    > best bet.
    > Stay away from the African Grey, African longwinged parrots, the Vasa, 
    > Pionus species, Conures, Lories, Eclectus- and some Amazone species.
    
    While I strongly agree with most of your suggestions, I must disagree
    here, speaking from my personal experiences.
    
    The macaws, cockatoos, and amazons I have known (and lived with!) have
    been much more "needy" in terms of "people-attention" than African
    birds.  
    
    My schedule, when I got my Timneh grey, was much like that of
    the basenote author's, other than that I spent most weekends at home.
    My grey's needs were well met by 1/2-1 hour a night, a few hours on
    weekends, for "physical time" and the rest of the evenings/weekends in
    a space where she could verbally and visually interact with us.  Much
    of the time she *preferred* to entertain herself.  We eventually got a
    little parrotlet that she enjoyed verbal and visual interaction with.
    
    Our cockatoos, although there are two of them, as well as other types of
    birds, are STILL MUCH more demanding of our time  and attention.  And
    my SO is home all day!  I CANNOT recommend a single cockatoo for any
    household where there is no one home for most of the day, and even a
    pair is "iffy".  Pairs of cockatoos (and single ones!) are also
    EXTREMELY noisy and can get too aggressively affectionate and injure
    each other at sexual maturity.  Macaws and amazons are a little less
    demanding of attention, but still need LOTS.
    
    I have found African species to be far less demanding of human
    attention than any other psitticine species I have kept.  My suggestion
    to the basenoter:  pick two from the following list of species:
    African grey (either Congo or Timneh), African or Indian ringneck,
    Senegal, Pionus, or Meyer's.  Get them as handfed younsters.  Raise
    them together and start them on their weekend travel schedule right
    away so that they are accustomed to it.  
    
    My personal preferance would be for a Timneh grey and a lovely lutino
    ringneck, but I'm biased :-)
    
    And don't forget to leave a radio playing or a TV on where they can
    see/hear it when you leave for work each day.
    
    
    						/Rita
    
    
    

    Rita,
    
    You may have a point about the attention but the African Grey is a
    definite NONO on the grounds of the high sensitivity to distress that
    the general example displays.
    Remember the change of surroundings and travel every weekend.
    
    Yes, cockatoos and macaws do need a lot of attention but if you don't
    intend to spend time on your birds than they shouldn't be kept as pets
    anyway but should be in a large outside aviary. Keeping two is the
    biggest contribution you can make to any parrot's wellbeing as no human
    can ever replace an avian companion.
    Yes, keeping a pair has it's drawbacks, that's why I suggested to
    combine different species.
    
    The larger species are the hardiest so..
    
    Peter
    
    

re .-1

If I were to get a parrot, it would definitely be a pet. Nowhere did I say that
I would not be spending time with it. In fact, it would would be with me for
almost all the weekend, and every night in the week!

How much time do you guys out there spend with your parrots? Apart from the
working days, there would be no time where the parrot would be left alone for
any extended period of time.

Is it just the travelling/change of environment which would cause the problem, or
do all you people out there have someone in the house with the parrot all day?

I thought that cockatoos were one of the most demanding of parrots when it came
to the amount of attention that they needed? Is this wrong?

Just wondering what the big problems would be...

Steve

PS. There's every possibility of me moving the girlfriend, so who knows? 8-]

    Steve,
    
    Most, if not all, of the "problems" with lonely parrots originate from
    birds kept in solitairy.
    Cockatoos and Macaws are in this respect VERY demanding and, as was
    pointed out correctly, unsuitable as pets.
    However if kept in a pair this is overcome. Cockatoos are about the most
    active of parrots and therefore the most noisy but also the most
    interesting.
    
    We both work and are away during working hours and have a pair of
    cockatoos. We've had several other parrots as well.
    If you get them as young birds and get them accustumed to the routine
    and don't spoil them no problems should be expected, even with the
    larger cockatoos.
    
    The travelling however will definitely ask for a stress resistant
    species. It isn't the distance that's the issue but the changes.
    
    
    Peter
    
    

    Ok - I will add my two cents. I have to agree with Rita. I have a
    Congo grey - and he does very well with small amounts of Human
    attention. Also - I have found my conure to be Much more sensitive
    to change than my Grey. If you start them out traveling - it becomes
    the norm and therefore will not bother the bird. The other thing you
    might do is give the bird to your girl friend and visit more often.
    I also have cockatiels and find them a great deal of fun and they
    are really lovey. (they will talk if you work with them - of course my
    Grey is the best talker!).
    Birds really do make wonderful pets and if they are loved - usually
    do quite well. As for all the birds mentioned so far - the Grey
    (either type) would be the quietist.
    
    		Good Luck!
    
    			Dora

Well, if I eventually get a parrot, it won't be for quite a while. I need to save
the ���� first. the Greys I've seen for sale in shops range from �400 for a wild
grey (God when they mean wild, they really mean wild!) to �800 for a hand reared
hand tame one.

One place I've visited had a line of cages with hand reared babies in them, and
I was walking past them, and I heard someone say 'Hello'. I was the only person
in there, so I wondered what was going on. Seems one of their greys has learned
to talk *very* quickly. I believe that the bird was only about 5 months old! It 
moved to the edge of the cage, and it was quite plain that it wanted a lot of
attention. I spent 20 minutes stroking this grey, and speaking to it. Good job
I didn't have my credit card with me! 8-[

The cockatoos I've seen are about �1000 each! From the things written in here,
it seems like most birds a quite a bit cheaper in the USA.

While I'm here, what prices have you seen for birds in the UK? I haven't seen
too many noters from the UK in here, but I just thought I'd ask.

re .-1

    might do is give the bird to your girl friend and visit more often.

I wish! the 150 mile journey takes 3 hours on a Friday night if I leave work
exactly at 5:30, and the journey back on Sunday takes 2 hours (if I go *quite*
fast!)

Karen (I can't just go on calling her "the girlfriend"!) may be moving down to
Basingstoke in the new year, so that may co-incide with when I manage to get
this sort of money together! I'm sure you'll hear more of me nearer the time.

Until then I'll just carry on reading this conference, learning more, and
enjoying your stories of your birds.

Thanx for all the help/advice.

Steve.

    Steve,
    
    The prices I quoted are Dutch prices, I live just across the Channel.
    Dutch breeders are well on the front lines of parrot breeding and
    hand-raised captive bred birds are freely available. An A.G. chick will
    go for 240 pounds.
    A Blue-fronted Amazone chick can be had at 275 pounds. A friend of mine
    breedsGreater Sulpher Crested Cockatoos and will sell chicks for around
    450 pounds. I know  Red/green macaw chicks(app. 14 weeks) for 1225
    pounds and that's CHEAP!
    At these prices you could afford a boattrip to Amsterdam and still have a
    bargain.
    I've done a book about captive breeding and hand-raising and in the
    proces got to know sources for even Hyacinth chicks with legal Cites
    papers. Export from the Netherlands to the UK will not be a problem for
    all but the species on the Cites appendix A since all chicks come with
    a closed footring. If neccessary the breeder can supply the Cites
    export documents and a vet. health certificate.
    
    If and when you're realy ready for it and have reached you decision I'd
    be quite willing to help you organise an export/import deal. 
    First you decide what you realy WANT,contact a breeder, then organise 
    around the consequences of your choice, get the neccessary equipment 
    and last of all get the birds.
    Whatever you do, if you decide to go for it, GET TWO!
    
    Peter