Conference nyoss1::market_investing

    I suggest you burn that letter. If you're interested in futures you
    better start doing some heavy reading. There's a lot to this game. One
    thing inexperienced investors tend to overlook is that futures are a
    hedging vehicle to protect capital, not a pure investment vehicle. Only
    the most experienced sophisticated professional with years of
    experience (and the proper software tools) has a shot in hell of having
    a chance at being consistently profitable. You can get lucky though,
    but you better be willing and ready to loss a lot of money.
    I'm no expert , just my semi-informed opinion.
    					Dan D

      RE: .1
      
      Dan -- My own "semi-informed opinion" is right in line with yours.
      I've read that the  average  futures  account  last  less  than  6
      months.   I  assume  this isn't because the investors make all the
      money they want in that amount of time.
      
      I  was/am  considering  Ken  Roberts  /  British  American  as  an
      educational  experience  first  and  only  then  as   a   possible
      investment direction.
      
      Does anyone know anything specifid about this operation?

    At one time Howard Ruff was telling his readers that Ken Roberts was on
    the up-and-up.  Apparently Ken teaches the basics of futures and some
    sort of chart-based technical analysis.  I believe at one time he
    offered a money-back guarantee, if you traded his system for 6 months 
    and still lost money.  (Proof was required).
    
    The reason so many futures traders go broke is lack of discipline and
    consequently failure to take losses, or follow system signals.  Even then
    you can run into a bad streak that discourages all but the strongest of
    minds.  I have several systems that make money on paper but are too hard
    for me to trade in real life.
    
    Of course a lot of flame-outs are people who go to make a lot of money
    in no time.  Predictably (and statistically) after 3 losses and $3000
    in losses, these people quit trading.  If you can't take more than that, 
    stay out.
    
      John

re: .3

      Thanks for the comments, John.

>    At one time Howard Ruff was telling his readers that Ken Roberts was on
>    the up-and-up.  Apparently Ken teaches the basics of futures and some
>    sort of chart-based technical analysis.  I believe at one time he
>    offered a money-back guarantee, if you traded his system for 6 months 
>    and still lost money.  (Proof was required).
      
      The "PERFORMANCE GUARANTEE" in the brochure I have states:
          
          "Read  my  Manual  and  all  supporting materials.  Follow the
          specific instructions in each of the three  Monthly  Bulletins
          and on each of the twice-a-week telephone updates.  Do this on
          paper only for the three-month Program.  You man call,  write,
          fax,  or  come by my office for help as often as you need.  If
          you do not realize net profits, including your enrollment fee,
          you  may  return the training materials and your paper-trading
          records  within  four  months  for  a  full  refund  of   your
          enrollment fee."

    I enrolled in Ken's course about 1.5 years ago.  I diligently followed
    it for 3 months, bought the WSJ every day and tracked all the picks that
    Ken gave on his phone hot-line.  I admit I learned a lot, but I also
    would have lost about $1500 over that time period.  Thankfully, it was
    on paper.  I kept careful records, sent them into Ken, returned all the
    material he had sent me, and received a full refund as per the
    agreement.
    
    About a month ago I got a phone call form British American asking me
    how I was doing in the course...I told them I hadoabtained a refund a
    long time ago...they then wanted to sell me another course on the
    Japanese Candlestick Method.. I was not interested.
    
    My personal experience.
    
    Mike

    RE .5:
    How does British American avoid big losses if the market turns against
    you? Do they use some type of hedging or is it up to you to closely
    watch your position and sell (or place stop loss order) when you've
    sustained as much loss as you can handle?
    
    Ray

    They (Ken Roberts) suggest using stop loss orders to minimize your
    losses when the market turns against you.  I tried his recommendation
    on paper for 3 months...would have lost about $1000 if it was real...so
    I didn't continue...but he was good about refunding my purchase price.
    
    Mike

    I'd like to borrow the Roberts course to compare his techniques to
    others I've been reading about.  It sounds like it would be a good
    review.  The one I never had!
    
    Anybody have one to lend/sell?  Send mail or call dtn 237-7356.
    
    
    							Fred

I enrolled in the "Ken Roberts" course a couple of years back.  He
sure makes trading commodities sound simple, fun and profitable.
I still have the course material - might be in the attic, though
I think I lost about $200 in the first three months - on paper.  I wrote 
the company a letter with all my records, and they offered to
refund my money or give me a year of their advisory service for free.
I did enjoy following his recommendations and "paper trading" so 
I opted to take the years subscription.  I ended the year some $20k
ahead.  Arguably, paper trading is not like real trading, though.
I don't think that I have the stomach to trade my real dollars - yet.
Perhaps when I get further ahead of the mortgage and diaper bill I'll
give a try. *Unemotional discipline* seemed to be a key in this
business.

I think Ken Roberts offers several classes now.  Perhaps up to eight.
I got a mailer from him just a few weeks ago.  The course that I was
in taught trading techniques with future contracts.  He sells one for 
options, and a host of other investment vehicles.  He teaches a "1-2-3" 
formation to "avoid"(help avoid) getting in before a bottom or top and 
uses stops to avoid/limit losses and protect profits.  Again, I enjoyed 
the course, and for the cost and guarantee, I say it's worth it.  I've 
learned fare less in some graduate level management business classes 
for $1500!  He does guarantee all of his courses.  If you don't make 
money in 3 months on paper, you get your money back.  Trading *can* be 
very profitable.

Incidentally, before I enrolled, I had my older brother, who frequents CA 
often, stop by his office to make sure that there was really a 
"Ken Roberts" company.  He said they were friendly and legit.

If I can find the material, you are welcome to borrow it.

-Brian

    Thanks for the offer, Brian.  Let me know if you locate the
    materials.  I will be happy to dust them off if you do!
    
    
    						Fred