Conference noted::sf

    re:.0
    
    There are a number of topics on Heinlein (DIR/TITLE=HEINLEIN),
    and there's bound to be some discussion of STARSHIP TROOPERS
    in one of them.
    
    Not to dump on your favorite, but I found it quite literally
    unreadable. I've tried a few times to read it and never got more
    than about a third of the way through it (and that was pushing
    it). But then, I have a notorious anti-Heinlein attitude (well,
    I'm not really *anti*-Heinlein, I'm just not pro-Heinlein; I've
    never been able to figure out what people see in his work).
    
    --- jerry

    I thought it was okay.  I liked the political philosophy (one must
    serve the community to be a full part of it), thought the plot was
    passable, but didn't think much of the "dulce et decorum est...."
    thread that ran thru the book. 
    
    						=maggie 

    This is one of my favorites too. I like the way this book shows that
    duty and patriotism are important without be obvious about it. One person 
    doing his duty and doing some good in the world. He may not understand
    the big picture all the time but he gets the job done and the world is a
    little better for it.                                                 
                                 Jeff Peters

    Without being obvious about it?!!   and I like the way Wilt Chamberlain
    is tall withour being obvious about it.

   I just happen to be re-reading it, and I enjoy it.

   His moral commentary is interesting.  While I personally could not and
would not put myself in the position of the protagenist(sp?), Johnny Something-
or-other, it gives me more insight into the views and values of a "military
man".  (This from a person who almost was thrown out of his house over long
hair and disagreements about the military with his father... what can I say,
I've learned to value differences... :-)

   I also enjoyed especially to see the parallels with the marines of
Aliens.  Maybe not 100% direct tie-ins, but there were many aspects of
Heinlein's M.I. which I saw in those Marines, but maybe those are just common
aspects of all persons of a military (especially Marine!!) nature.  It's the
only book I can recall reading which examines the military creature in any
kind of internal depth.  (I've seen the movies, and read about "space battles"
before, but nothing that really dove into the mentality and philosophy of it
all.)  Didn't the power-loader remind you at ALL of powered armor?

   All-in-all, it's typical of early Heinlein.

					-mjg

    I was also re-re-reading it last week during a nostalic phase!!
    
    My thoughts about the book have changed slowly over the years. I
    first bought the book in 197mmble and read it as a "cowboys and
    indians" story (only being kneehigh to a skinny at the time). Gradually
    it has changed (for me) through being a tongue-in-cheek anti-war
    novel to what seems to be a quite unusual view of the military way
    of thinking. It shows the soldier as being neither a bloodthirsty
    facist fiend nor an altuistic liberal...both points of view having
    been thoroughly aired over the last few years. The people seem to
    be ordinary guys who have ended up in the M.I. for (sometimes) no
    concrete reason and who are doing the best they can. 
    
    I also like the idea that you should *already* have contributed something
    to society, and put your life on the line, before being allowed to
    exercise the ultimate democratic power (ie the vote). It probably
    would never work in practice but it makes you think about the
    possibilty!!
    
    Most of all I read 'cos I enjoy it!!
    
    The Real John Smith 

    
    I think you had to perform Federal Service (which covered a lot
    more things than the military) before getting the vote.  So, it
    wasn't government by ex-military people, strictly.
    
    I find Heinlein largely unpalatable, but I think this one and The
    Moon is a Harsh Mistress were okay.
    
    DFW

    Well, here I go again:
    
    When I hear someone use words like "unpalatable" I recommend they
    read "...All You Zombies."    If you didn't like it then you're
    definitely not Heinlein-reader material.   (If you do I pass you
    on to ORPHANS OF THE SKY.)
    
    						Don 

    
    I like it for two reasons:
    
    1. It's a "good read."
    
    2. It made the crowd at The New Yorker and The New York Times so
    mad they had a stroke.
    
    
    KBS
    

    RH taught me to read... and Starship Troopers remains one of my
    favorite reads...  
    
    I am afraid, however, that I have outgrown it's simplistic political 
    philosophy. The problem with the "federal service" notion as expressed 
    in this story is that the *definition* of service is purely the perogative
    of the *state*.  There seems to be little room in this world for
    the constructive debate that is the key characteristic of a healthy 
    democracy.  In fact, if a "citizens'" idea of service differs from
    that of the state, he is automatically disenfranchised. 
    
    The political world of Starship Troopers would be at least as
    unresponsive and inflexible as some of our contemporary Communist
    states.  
    
    							js

I just read Starship Troopers very recently, and I enjoyed it a lot. The only
thing I didn't like was a lot of the moral philosophy stuff. I found it too
simplistic, and very preachy. I did like the insights into military life (not
just the battles) and military thinking (although having never served in the
military, I can't say anything about how real or unreal it was).

For anyone who is interested, there is a Japanese animated version of Starship
Troopers. Like some of the other Japanese adaptations of novels, it is a very
loose adaptation (one other example is Lensman). The first half kind of follows
the book, and the second half diverges all together...(of course, with me not
understanding Japanese, and also not having a translated script...it was hard
for me to tell). The Bugs are completely different from the novel.

-Eric

    
    	Sorry, but in spite of it's somewhat simplistic views, it's still
    	one of my favorite Heinleins.  (Maybe it's due to a wish that
    	sometimes life could be more simple.)
    
    	If anyone liked the powered armor in "Starship Troopers", pick up
    	a copy of John Stakely's "Armor".  The protagonist in this one
    	will send chills up your spine.
    
    	Terry
    

Armor was excellent.... I just reread that after several years. 
I thought I saw another novel by Steakley out in hardback, but I was
really in a rush and had to zoom.

Anybody see something new by him?

Mike JN

    Yep.
    
    He has a new book out called _Vampire$_ about a group of fearless
    vampire hunters.  He has had this book written for at least 10 years
    because I heard him read it at a Chattacon that long ago.  It is an OK
    read.  This book is out in trade PB now.

    Sorry, I thought Armor was pretty awful.  Nothing like Starship
    Troopers or The Forever War....
    
    Willie