Conference noted::sf

    I, too, have been bothered by the defensive ring in that motto.
    "Don't panic" is okay.  Or how about "The future isn't what it used
    to be"?
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    
    
    	Those are both OK.  How about "from the minds eye"?  
    
    	Mike

    Wait a minute !  I think "...is a crutch..." is great.  It implies
    a certain quality of superiority; an awareness of the 'Truth' beyond
    reality, so to speak.
    
    I vote (assuming this is a democratic thing) to keep the crutch-
    
    				:})
    
    Dwight
    
    

    	How about - "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
    
    	To me, it kind of gives the whole theme of Science Fiction;
    just because something does not seem to exist to us humans, does
    not mean it does not exist somewhere out there.
    
    	BTW - the quote came from physicist Martin C. Rees.
    
    	Larry
    

    	"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch"?
    
    	I understand what the quote means in general, but WHAT does
    it have to do with SF?
    
    	I personally like 410.1's statement:  "The future isn't what
    it used to be."
    
    	Larry
    

    re .5:
    
    TANSTAAFL is an acronym frequently seen in novels by 
    Robert A. Heinlein. Usually used as an expletive.
    
    I like the original, "Reality is a crutch..." 
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

  TANSTAAFL is explained at length in "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress"
  (something about the beer costing less when a bar doesn't offer a
  "free lunch.").

  I like "Reality is a crutch..." too but I think that the the nice person
  who adopted this file should have the privilege of choosing whatever
  saying s/he wants.

  JP

      I changed the notice because I could and I got tired of seeing the
      same old one for such a long time.  By the way, "Reality is a
      crutch..." was not the ORIGINAL one as asserted in .6. 
      
      I no longer remember what the original notice was.  Maybe
      Bob Wyman remembers; he is the founder of this conference.
      
      From time to time, we can change the notice.  Sometimes
      the notice may even be a relevant NOTICE as opposed to some
      saying out of or related to SF.
      
      I chose TANSTAAFL simply because I knew someone would comment
      on it, and gives me the opportunity to put in a plug for
      remembering that having this file costs something.  Think about
      it.
      
      Dave C.

    Though the point is now moot, I want to put in my two cents
    regarding the "crutch" notice, seeing how I was the one who
    set that notice way back when in the first place (it was a
    more innocent time, when anyone had the ability to set the
    notice).
    
    Obviously, anyone has the privilege to interpret anything as he
    sees fit. But to say that it's a "defensive statement invented
    by geeks to spit in the faces of people who dislike SF"? The
    phrase is meant to be funny (you know what humor is, don't you?).
    It started out many years back as a variation of the phrase
    "Religion is a crutch for those who can't handle reality".
    Unlike .0, I see it as a sign that we *don't* take ourselves too
    seriously.
    
    But then, humor is one of the more subjective things in life.
    To each his own.
    
    --- jerry

re .6, .7:

Yes, I believe that Heinlein used TANSTAAFL in _Moon_is_a_Harsh_Mistress_,
but it was _NIVEN_ who used it as an expletive, and in several of his books
(Ringworld comes to mind. the use of the expletive seems to be associated
in my mind with Louis Wu primarily).

The question is, who used it first (chronologically - real present time earth
years, that is) - Niven, Heinlein, or someone else?

kevin routley

    re: -.1
    
    I know this has nothing to do with the original topic, but just
    to set the record straight:
    
    I believe the expletive used by several of Niven's characters in 
    the Known Space series is TANJ--There Ain't No Justice.  I don't
    think there's a more appropriate expletive you could use in mixed
    company.  :-)

    
    Eric Lee

    	Don't forget the Hitchiker's swear-word "Belgium"!
                           
    	Perhaps we should make a new note on SF curse-words.
    
    	Larry
    

  Moving further afield, I believe it was Heinlein who said, "While it
  is true that there ain't no justice, nobody *wants* justice -- people
  would rather have a break..."  But I could be putting words in his
  mouth.

  JP

"Children, who are innocent, love justice.  We, who are guilty, 
prefer mercy."
               - G. K. Chesterton

    RE: Various comments on "Tanstaafl"
    
    It's a little weird to see so many people unfamilar with a term
    from what is possibly the best science fiction novel ever written
    (no matter what your opinion of Heinlein, "The Moon Is A Harsh
    Mistress"  almost always appears on "the best" lists. It's also
    my personal #1).
    
    Back when RAH was a young man, bars used to offer free lunchs that
    were *real* lunches including sandwiches, pickled eggs, pig's knuckles,
    and so on, not the chips or pretzels you get now. My father - who
    is Heinlein's age - says that he and other young men used to live
    on those free lunches when it was tough to get a job.
    
    *But,* during a period where you could get a draught for a nickel,
    the bars offering free lunches charged at least fifteen cents for
    their beer.
    
    And, almost all the food was salty :-).
    
    The phrase itself comes from the early 1900s. Heinlein probably
    invented the acronym. As someone previously mentioned, Niven didn't,
    but did come up with "Tanj" ("There Ain't No Justice") as a comment
    on the feeling that the perversity of the universe tends toward
    the maximum.
    
    In "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress," Heinlein extrapolates the idea
    as a means to comment on a society where nothing is free - including
    the air the people breath. And what ultimately costs the most, of
    course, is their freedom.
    
    If you haven't read "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress," I recommend
    that you run, don't walk, to the nearest library or bookstore and
    read it. Meet Manny, the Prof (who is based on a real person), Mike
    the computer, and the only woman who I would leave my wife for --
    Wyoming Knott.
    
    If you haven't read it, I envy you the experience.
    
    Fred  

    	"Emergency override Archemides"
    
    	Hmmm - that sounds familiar.  Where did it come from?  And why
    the change from "Lunch", especially after all the hullabaloo to
    keep it?
    
    	Larry
    

    If I'm not mistaken "Emergency Override Archemides" is the command
    issued by Ann Francis to Robby the Robot in _Forbidden Planet_.
    
    Robby has been ordered by Morbius not to let anyone into the residence
    so Ann Francis must override the order to let the Captain and the
    Doctor in.
    
    Dennis Murphy
        

      .17 is right.  That's where the quote comes from.
      
      I changed the notice.  It is only a placeholder, something
      to amuse you, jog your memory, make you smile, I hope not
      make you angry, while there is no reason to have a REAL notice.
      
      A real notice would be something like "This file will close
      down in 30 days."   I hope never to have to put such a notice
      up.
      
      Do you readers and contributors really want a constant notice?
      
      Dave C.

    No, I like your philosphy of little jolts, quips, etc.
    
    You could put the real notice in ALL CAPS, that way people might
    take it seriously.
    
    /MeV/

    I was planning to check my copy (legally purchased) of "forbidden
    planet" to make sure but I haven't done it yet: I think the actual
    quotation is "Emergency CANCELLATION Archimedes." (I'm sure this
    has just ruined your day :-) ).
    
    
    mnme

      Thanks to Rich Simon for the correct quotation, I have corrected
      the quotation in the notice.
      
      Dave C.

    Seen on a button displayed at Fabulous Fiction in Wocester....
    
    Jogging exercises the body, Science Fiction exercises the mind.
                                                  
    Mike_L

From:	US4RMC::"[email protected]" "MAIL-11 Daemon" 15-JUL-1994 
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