Conference noted::equitation

    Re: .0
    
    The author of base note from the node name appears to be in Reading in
    England where winter is somewhat different from that in the Greater
    Maynard Area. Winter means cold and wet, frost but rarely temperatures
    below freezing during the day. "DIY" = rough board, more or less.
    
    Not having kept a horse in these conditions I have no useful advice. 

    Hi,
    
    Well done, I am noting from Reading in the UK.  The weather here is
    nothing compared to how you have it in the States, what we know as cold
    is something like 2 degrees or thereabouts.  At the moment it's been
    very warm for this time of year although it has been gray, with a fair
    amount of rain.  That's how my mare became fat in the first place as
    the grass is still so good here because of the warm weather combined
    with rain.  Last night was what I classed as a little on the cold side,
    it went down to 3 degrees (Holly had her Jute rug on!)
    
    Bearing in mind when it freezes it really goes for it with the water
    etc. freezing up, the lowest I can remember it going down to last year
    was -9 but that's not for long, long spells at a time.  An average for
    the coldest part of winter is probably -5 but only at night!
    
    Hope this gives you some idea of our winter.  Any opinions are
    welcomed.
    
    Liz

    There are a few things you need to work around to thin this 
    mare down some. 
    
    Feed:	the little tea she gets is ok. I would not feed
                her any grain as long as she is on this rich pasture.
    
    Stable:	Being able to graze for 12 hours is alot of grazing
                time for an overweight horse. Yet, it would be 
                unkind to leave her in for 24 hours also, so this
                posses a dilema. Perhaps you can set up a small 
                wooden/wire paddock so that she is near her stable
                mates but doesn't have access to pasture?
    
    Clipping:   Clipping this mare would be a good idea. Try rubbing
                her down with towels and letting her wear a "wool" 
                cooler for 1/2 hour after a ride "before" putting her
                rug on. Placing a heavy warm rug on a "hot" horse will
                only make them sweat more! 
    
    		But keep in mind that she will still sweat quite alot  even
                if she is clipped if: A) she is very overweight and B) if 
                she is only ridden on weekends. 
    		
                Exercise for horses is pretty much the same as for people. 
                In order for your body to gain muscle tone and loose fat, 
                you must exercise moderately 3-5 times a week for any 
                progress. Otherwise, you are starting from scratch every 
                weekend!!
                
                See if someone can exercise her for you, or try lunging
                her each day for 15 minutes and working up to 30 minutes
                after a week but no more than that. They get bored!!
    
    
    good luck!
    
    Tina 

    Liz,
    
    I'm assuming the temperatures you mentioned were centigrade as a
    temperature of -9 Fahrenheit would be cold in most of the US too. For
    discussion's sake, let's say that -9 centigrade is about +16 Fahrenheit 
    That's nothing in our New England states. 
    
    However, the winter climate here in the Seattle area is very similar to 
    the UK's: wet, with overnight temperatures near freezing but sometimes 
    quite a bit below freezing for short periods, average day time 
    temperatures about +45 F or +7 c, it doesn't snow often but when it does, 
    we're in for trouble because no one is prepared to cope with it.... 
    Sound familiar?
    
    
    I think I would clip my horse in a similar situation. A full clip does
    sound more practical than 4 hours of hanging about. One thing that we
    often do is to put what we call a cooler over the horse after a ride.
    I don't know what you folks call such a thing but it is a rectangular
    woolen sheet about 90" by 80" that we use when cooling out a horse. It
    covers a horse from poll to tail. It's a loose fitting thing but warm 
    and absorbent. One can also stuff straw or the like under the cooler 
    along the horse's back. That keeps the cooler from getting quite so wet
    and allows some air circulation under the cooler. I frequently use
    clips to hold the sides of the cooler together over the horse's chest.
    
    In cold weather, I would use a wool exercise rug on a fully clipped
    horse. That will keep the back and hindquarters from chilling.
    
    I would also try to exercise my horse more often if I were trying 
    to take weight off her. Since you're even farther North than we are in 
    Seattle, I'm sure it's dark by the time you leave work. That would make 
    evening riding difficult, unless there is a lighted arena of some kind 
    that you can use. Perhaps, lunging 2 or 3 evenings a week in addition 
    to your weekend rides?
    
    Your feeding and grazing schedules sound fine to me. You'll probably
    have to adjust them in order to get and maintain the weight you want
    her to carry but you've amde a good start.
    
    Best,
    John

    This subject is interesting to me because we have a twenty-plus year
    old mare with a heavy winter coat.  Even with light riding in recent
    warm fall days, her respiration goes way up and stays up, but she
    doesn't sweat.
    
    The first time it happened, I called the vet and he told me that she
    was overheating and unable to dissipate the heat because she couldn't
    sweat.  He said that there is nothing to do but cool her down with
    water on her neck and underside when her respiration increases because 
    she heats up.  He said there is nothing you can do to make her sweat.
    I tried the water and her respiration dropped from around 60 to 25 in
    a few minutes.
    
    I gave her a trace clipping before riding her again.  Although the same
    thing happened, her respiration did not get as bad and we cooled her
    off as soon as possible after it went up.
    
    Does anyone know anything about this condition?  Are there other things
    I can do?  Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
    
    JW
          

    We have somewhat the same problem with sweating down here in Atlanta,
    as the horses grow quite a bit of winter coat and can really work up
    a sweat with any kind of exercise (like a brisk trail ride, fox
    hunting, etc) - especially when we can have days all winter long that
    get up to 45 or 50F.  However, we also get the below 20F days when 
    they would be mighty uncomfortable if clipped and not rugged during
    turnout and even in the barn at night.  Most people here seem to
    clip and blanket, although I don't as my TB mare doesn't grow much 
    coat at all.
    
    The most annoying winter "problem" we have is that we get lots of rain
    in the winter resulting in lovely clay mud - and the minute the horses
    get any coat and it's too cold to bathe them, they take extreme delight
    in rolling in the stuff until they are covered from ears to tail.  It
    sometimes is weeks before you can pat them on the rear without a cloud
    of dust!  Me thinks they do it just to get back at us for the baths
    they get all summer.
    
    Bev
    

Liz,
We are currently having the warmest November on record in England, which
is making the grass grow and making all our horses warm in their thick winter
coats - but dont be fooled - winter has never failed to arrive sooner or later.

My yearling, who is out on similar pasture to your mare, has also put on 
weight over the past 2 weeks as the grass is growing more than normal at this
time of year. The amount you are feeding your mare sounds fine given the
current weather and work she is doing, but when it does eventually turn cold
there will be very little nourishment in the grass. She will then need more hay
by day as well as night, probably as much as she will clear up. She will also
need some hard feed if you are riding her regularly, something like horse and 
pony nuts, with the quantity dependent on her size, how much work she is doing 
and whether she is still overweight.

On the clipping, I assume it is a few weeks since she was trace clipped, so that
she has probably grown back quite a lot of her coat. My 16 year old that I 
blanket clipped 5 weeks ago is beginning to look like a teddy bear again.
If you are going to be able to bring your mare in every night, a 
blanket clip sounds a reasonable idea. If you do this in the next couple of
weeks, she will have time to grow back some coat before the cold weather in
January.

In the meantime, when your are riding her, try to let her relax at a steady
walk for the last 20 minutes or so of your ride, which should her to start
to dry off a bit. If she is still wet when you get back, the best thing I 
have found is to put a cotton cooler on the horse, and put it in a very well
ventilated box, or better still, lead it out in hand for a bit of grass and a 
wander around.
    
    Ros

    It's nice to know you're not the only one with this problem.  I had
    Holly trace clipped just over a month ago now, he coat is so thick and
    woolly I don't think you'd have seen anything like it, and her summer
    coat is very thin in comparison.  I think I may have her trace clip
    taken out again over the next 2 weeks and then straight after Xmas go
    for a blanket clip.  She's in a warm Masta New Zealand at the moment
    which will protect her and keep her warm with a trace clip and I can
    blanket clip her when we have the Rambo rug (at Xmas).
    
    With regards to the mud - I have this problem too!  I'm sure she
    delights in getting absolutely filthy muddy (wet mud too!) which makes
    her a horrible sight to ride out on.  I'm sure I must get comments
    along the line of 'doesn't she look after that horse?', Holly's
    palomino (Cremello in the winter) so every little bit of dirt shows on
    her.
    
    Regards Holly's feed.  Last year during the winter I was feeding her
    Spillers Cool Mix and chaff with ad lib hay.  She seemed to do great
    with this (as you can tell she's a very good doer!) but then we didn't
    have the weight problem then!
    
    Thanks for all the advice I'm  getting in this note, it all helps as we
    never stop learning, please keep it coming.
    
    Thanx
    
    Liz

    Re -< No sweat... >-
    
    John,
    
    I've heard of that condition before. It's called anhidrosis which means
    the horse has lost the ability to sweat during exercise or during high
    temperature conditions. I'd only heard of this in highly conditioned
    performance horses(polo ponies, racehorses, 3day eventers) in hot humid
    climates. None of those fit your description, so I looked it up in a
    vet book.
    
    Whlie the book said that the most likely horses to develop this
    condition are the performance horses I'd heard about, it can also happen
    in lightly ridden pleasure horses. A common scenario is the onset of
    symptoms occuring after a move from a temperate climate to a tropical
    climate(e.g. New England to Florida or the Gulf Coastal areas).
    
    The cause is unknown. Various therapies have been tried but there has
    been no consistent success with any treatment. Some horses adapt and
    begin sweating again. This recovery is most likely to happen if the
    horse is moved to cooler climate or kept in an air conditioned stall in
    hot weather.
    
    Anhidrosis may be partial or complete and onset may be abrupt or gradual. 
    Abrupt onset usually occurs in hot weather. The horse will have a fast 
    pulse, high temperature or even fever, dry skin and rapid labored 
    breathing. With gradual onset, one will typically see poor tolerance of 
    exercise, weight loss and/or loss of condition as well as patchy hair 
    loss on the face.
    
    John D

    John, thanks for looking this up and passing it on.
    
    JW

    Well, after one week of seriously schooling my horse and keeping her in for
    several nights a week and most of the weekend, I can see a weight
    loss!!!!
    
    I stood looking at her yesterday from the front and from the sides and
    there is a difference, this fat, stocky horse *will* become a fine
    specimin of an animal after all!!  She was also working much better
    this weekend which surprises me.  She's 13/14 years old and I always
    took it that you couldn't teach an old dog new tricks but this goes to
    show different.  If I keep this up through the winter (& onwards) and
    change her diet as and when accordingly, she will probably look superb
    come spring.
    
    Thanks for all your advice.
    
    Liz
    
    P.S.  She still sweats up!! (Have to wait for 'til Boxing Day for the
    clip)

John (Wood),

It could also be a thyroid problem.  A friend of mine has a horse who does not
sweat, period.  She has had this horse for about 16 years. (Hes 21 now.)  He's
been this way for as long as I've known them (about 14 years).  In Smiley's 
case, it's hypothyroidism.  In the summer, when it gets hot an humid, he just 
pants and runs towards overheating.  Elaine spends much time hosing him off 
to get him cool.  In Smiley's case, caseine (or the equivalent), helps him
sweat to a degree, although Elaine still needs to be very careful.

My suggestion is to follow your vets advice, and monitor the situation. It may
get better as the weather gets (consistently) colder, but keep a careful eye out
in the spring.


Kathy

    
    RE: .6   Bev - Elsie rolls in mud just to keep you busy!  I won't
    	forget the day I went to the barn and found her with another
    	horse standing knee deep in a mud puddle, both splashing for
    	all they're worth!!!  What a mess!
    
    Diana