Conference noted::equitation

I was going to suggest the massage therapist, but
it sounds like you're already lined up for that. 
I'd say find out what he has to say (or the vet) before
trying other stuff.  If she's great to ride after the
massage, well there you go! 

You said she doesn't seem sore on the trail...
What does she do if you ask her to be straight on the 
trail, or ask her to come round or make a smallish
circle? Same as in the ring?  (of course the only
significant thing would be if she doesn't show any
soreness on the trail even if you ask her to work there!)

I've used breastplates to keep a saddle from slipping
back, but I don't know anything much about the relevance of
that to back soreness... but if the soreness is related to the 
saddle slipping, by all means use the breastplate. 

--carrie

    As a person who went broke last year when my young horse decided to
    grow 5 1/2 inches wider in the withers....saddle slipping back
    generally indicates a too narrow tree. I also had to learn that the
    dressage saddle appears farther back when it is sitting correctly, as
    compared to a forward seat. Make sure the shoulder blades can rotate
    without getting pinched by the front of the saddle. Using a breastplate
    to hold it forward may cause pain if the saddle just doesn't fit the
    horse. If the saddle is going uphill when placed correctly, it may need
    restuffed. Your trying to ride deeply in an unbalanced saddle can rock
    it back and forth cause back pain in the horse. Saddle fitting is an
    art!
    

    One piece of trivia I picked up last month from a saddle maker at the
    last U.K. National Dressage Championships held at Goodwood last month
    is a "rule of thumb" of 1.5 lbs per square inch in working out the
    weight bearing surface of a saddle. So knowing your own weight, and
    looking at how much of the saddle is in contact with you horse holding
    you up. Significantly exceeding this ratio may indicate a reason for a
    sore back.
    
    This saddle maker claims to be supplying the Spanish Riding School now
    that Keiffer has gone to plastic trees. 

    When I first got Cloud she used to have a sore back due to an ill 
    fitting saddle, so the first thing I did was part exchange her old 
    saddle for another one that fitted her properly, and as she had a 
    tender back She wore a 1" thick numnah for a while.  I found that 
    whilst she had a sore back she would not bend very well on one rein and 
    on the other she would really pull to turn, as though to keep the 
    pressure off her back.  After she had been wearing her new saddle for 
    about a month, the skin on the pressure points on her back started to 
    peel or fall off, leaving very tender patches of new skin on her back, 
    to overcome this I bought some skin hardening gel to put on these 
    tender patches, and slowly but surely they hardened up to take the 
    weight of the saddle without being sore.  It turned out that it was the 
    hard skin that was causing her back to be sore and twitchy.  Is it the 
    skin on her back that is sore or is it the spine itself?
    
    Just my experience
    
    Good luck

    
    
    Thanks for your replies...
    
    Yes, I think that she didn't feel as sore (and didn't act sore, or try
    to evade aids) on the trail because I wasn't asking her to be straight.
    Just simple hacking on a loose rein.
    
    She never had sores on her back, per say.  She did exhibit some muscle
    inflamation on either side of her spine just behind where the saddle 
    sits and sometimes she had these little round bumps with fluid in them
    over the grrove in her spine after a long ride.  The vet had seen them
    on her horse before and thinks they are a by-product of her stiffening 
    up.  The bumps go away within a few hours and don't seem to phase her
    at all when pressed on.
    
    I went to the barn during lunch today and was fortunate to have the vet
    and massage therapist there at the same time.  Here's what they
    found...  
    
    1. We ruled out the saddle not fitting...Mike has noticed a great
    improvement since I've been riding in the new one ie; less soreness in
    her back.  He and the vet did recommend a gel pad (which I will try 
    tonight).
    
    2. Did some flexion test to see if her hocks were bothering her.  No
    stiffness, whatsoever. (phew!)
    
    Vet noticed that Annie really steps under herself w/ the right hind,
    but not nearly as much as w/ left hind.  This makes perfect sense as
    she is stiffer to the left.  She also mentioned that horses aren't born
    straight...we have to make them straight through training.
    
    Vet also said it was important to keep working her and that some
    soreness is not uncommon in a green horse who is just starting to use
    her back.
    
    She also recommended cavaletti work to induce Annie to stretch her neck
    down into the bit which will stretch her back muscles at the same time.
    
    General consensus was that a few things are probably contributing to
    her back soreness.
    
      1. She a tense horse by nature
      2. She is green
          - crooked (needs to work on building up topline/hind-end)
          - not used to weight of rider
      3. She probably has some residual soreness from the old saddle I was
         using and should work through this as she gets stronger
      4. She has gotten into the habit of avoidance in the ring due to past
         discomfort and also because it's hard for her to be straight
         (she'd rather be hacking out on the trail) and when she gets tense
         while I'm on her, it only serves to aggrevate the situation.
    
     Solutions:
    
      1. Try a gel pad
      2. Relaxation exercises to stretch/unlock her back (poles/cavaletti)
      3. Stay off her back (no sitting trot)
      4. Keep up w/ monthly massage
    
    I'll let you know how we progress.  It does make me feel better that
    this is not something cronic and can be worked through and that she
    should be less sore once her back muscles get increasingly stronger and as
    she gets more flexible.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Simone  
    
    

    Simone,
    
    I like it! That's a very good set of suggestions/recommendations. I
    especially like the poles/cavaletti for stretching her topline.
    
    Another thing that might help a little, if you're comfortable with Annie
    on the trails, is schooling on the trail. I suggest this because you
    say she associates the ring with discomfort and avoids working. Then
    you try to straighten her and she tenses up, etc...
    
    If you work on straightening in particular and schooling in general on
    the trails, you can avoid that vicious circle. Her attitude will be
    different because she's out on the trail so she might be more
    cooperative. 
    
    Straightening will be hard for Annie. So, just ask a tiny bit at a
    time. Like maybe 4-5 strides that are a *little* straighter than she
    wants to go. Then, let her rest(i.e. go crooked). Then, you can ask for
    another 4-5 straighter strides and let her rest again. Repeat until you
    get to the end of your ride. 
    
    As she develops, you can increase the difficulty by asking for
    more strides of the improved straightness. Later, perhaps when she can
    go 200 yards or once around the arena , you can start over by asking 
    4-5 of even straighter strides; then rest & repeat.
    By asking for improvement in *tiny* steps, she will not get sore and she
    will be less likely to resent training(i.e. she won't go sour)
    
    Of course, any figure that requires lateral flexion like circles,
    "broken lines", "square serpentines" aka "crossing over"(didn't we talk 
    about these in Note 10 about a year ago?), serpentines, etc will help.
    
    One nice thing about "broken lines" is that you can do them on the
    trail as well as in the arena.
    
    Have fun and be persitent
    John

    
    
    
    I'm posting an Annie update @ 10.930.
    
    Simone