Conference noted::equitation

    Here's something I thought of doing before I just gave up on breeding
    and had my stallion gelded.  You not only want babies on the ground,
    but you want them out in the public eye, right?  How about offering a
    prize to the first person who gets some award you decide on -- dressage
    score over 50 in first level, blue ribbon in a class A show, whatever
    makes sense in your discipline.  Prize could be $500 or even $1000.  
    Sounds really attractive to the mare owner -- and you have a few years 
    to get it together.  You might want to have some lawyer draw up the
    actual offer to avoid pitfalls in the wording, to ensure that you get
    what you want, and don't have to pay more than once.

    You could call your local 4-H extension agent and find out about the
    horse clubs in your county.  The 4-H extension service in NH puts out a
    monthly newspaper.  They don't do adds, but if you wanted to run a
    contest or something, I bet they (through the horse club) would promote
    something like that.
    
    Or look through the New England Equine Journal or Horseman's Yankee
    Pedlar for the Pony Clubs and do a contest or something through them.

    Do you have a VCR and camcorder (or whatever)?  Maybe you could make 
    a short video of Back Bey and his best babies to display at shows where 
    prospects might be showing or visiting.   Or, for small shows that have
    limited electricity, a display board of nice color photos.
    
    Mary
    
    ps  The previous idea of a contest is a good concept too.  Maybe what
    you could do -- to keep your cash out of it -- is offer a money-back
    breeding to the first foal that achieves whatever.  Make sure that
    someone is certain of winning -- but only one winner.  If you think you
    may want to repeat the offer, maybe you could make the offer to the
    irst foal of a particular year.

    Have you talked to any of the 4H/Pony Club leaders in your area? Maybe 
    you could work out something with them directly. Like free stud fee to
    mares owned by a kid in their program...Note: OWNED by the
    kid NOT its parents. Have them pay your handling fee directly rather
    than through you. That way they're aware of exactly where the money is
    going.
    
    Personally, I wouldn't respond well to an ad that said "best offer over
    $200"...I'd wonder what is wrong with the stud.
    
    You might advertise "Free stud fee to Pony Clubbers & 4H'ers(small fee
    to stallion handler)" Maybe you could even get the handler to give the
    kids a break?
    
    Good luck, He DOES sound like a great sire
    John
    
    

    Another idea I had this morning (and this is another one that takes
    some work -- sorry) would be to put together a little 1-2 hour seminar
    on breeding such as how to select an appropriate stallion, how to care for
    the mare and foal, etc. and give it at local 4H and pony clubs.  You
    couldn't advertise Back Bey at the seminar, but it would put you in 
    direct touch with people interested in or thinking of breeding their 
    mares.  It could also provide you with a lead list for a small, direct
    mail type of campaign.
    
    Mary

    Mary-
    
    That's a great idea!  When can you start?!
    
    Seriously, I think that's a better plan than just doing, say, a 
    direct mail piece of advertising, dropping it in the mail and hoping
    it lands face up in the right place.  
    
    I don't for a minute presume to be a genetics expert.  But I do know
    what my horse can do and what he can't and I'm real happy with the
    three fillies that he gave me.
    
    If there are still 4-H advisors in this file and they would like
    their group to be my "guinea pigs", call, write, or send smoke
    signals!  I think this could be fun!
    
    Thanks Mary!
    
    gwen
    

    Like a few notes back, I'd be leery of an ad I saw saying "Best offer
    over",too. I know little about breeding, but I do hope to breed my mare
    in the probably distant future and have been idly looking at ads for
    warmblood studs (I'm definate on wanting a warmblood, but that's all
    I'm definate on so far) just to see what's out there. Seems like there's
    a lot of studs available and, with the recession in full swing,
    possibly less of a market for them right now? Anyway, I think reading
    "Best offer over" would throw me for a loop...and being a reasonable
    representative of the just-starting-out crowd of mare owners I'd guess
    that would turn away more people than you'd probably mean to. 
    
    Just an idle observation from a "future broodmare" owner. The ideas
    you've gotten in here sound great! Good luck!
     

I'm a Pony Club instructor, and I don't advise the kids to raise their
own foal unless they (and their parents) are fully aware of the hidden costs,
hidden time, and are knowledgeable, mature and responsible enough to take care
of the mare and foal.   Even then, if they are looking to add another
horse to their collection, I advise purchasing one over breeding (because
of the risks and costs).   Lastly, (and here's where I'll be beaten up),
if someone asked me what breed was best suited for their aspiring 6 year
old, I would not suggest a TB or an Arabian, let alone a completely green one.

Melinda

    When can I start?  Sheesh, I thought I just finished!  Your welcome, 
    for the idea.  I'm always great at thinking of'em.  Its implementing 
    that gets me tied up in knots.
    
    Actually, I don't think you need to be an expert in genetics or
    anything, for a 4H type of audience.  Maybe general things to watch out
    for (too much inbreeding or line breeding, whatever) and good qualities 
    to look for in a stallion (good conformation, movement, temperament). 
    Of course, you could use pictures of Back Bey to point out conformation 
    qualities.
    
    Actually, what I called 'direct mail' I was really thinking of as a
    follow up note or call or something.  Right around booking time.  Or,
    maybe you could invite interested parties in coming out to see your
    operation?
    
    Anyway, have fun with it and good luck!
    
    Mary

    Melinda,
    
    Believe it or not, I fully agree that TB's/Arabs are inappropriate for
    a 6 year old. But so are Warmbloods! The appropriate mount for a 6 year
    old is a pony that doubles as a baby-sitter.
    
    I think we're talking about a bit older kid here. Like 12 maybe? Lots
    of 4H'ers etc. that age do raise and train foals as projects. So, why
    not give them lectures by experienced horse people? 
    
    I also agree with Melinda's comments about the cost/risk/time in
    breeding & raising foals. We used to breed. Because we wanted
    particular qualities, had a small number of mares and didn't have 10
    years to wait for the mares to drop "right" foal, we found it was better 
    for us to go out and buy a suitable horse than to try to raise such a 
    horse. The odds are much more in your favor that you can find
    an appropriate horse to ride than to breed one EVEN if you have a good
    or outstanding mare and breed her to the best stud in the world. You'll
    probably get a good horse but...we never got what we wanted.
    
    Life is different if you are trying to make a little stud farm for
    yourself or teach the kids all aspects of horsemanship. But since we
    are primarily riders, it doesn't make sense for us to breed.

    Mary just hinted at another good idea. Open your barn to 4H 
    conformation judging classes! Or give other kinds of demos for such
    groups on training or whatever you're good at.

    Melinda,  I agree in principle.  However, as John mentioned, a part of
    4H seems to be breeding projects.  And there may also be some stubborn
    people out there who insist on breeding, despite the market.  I'd
    rather see them do it responsibly (with the help of someone
    knowledgeable) to real quality.
    
    Mary

    
>Note 1603.7            Stallion Marketing Advice Requested             7 of 11
>    Seems like there's
>    a lot of studs available and, with the recession in full swing,
>    possibly less of a market for them right now? 

    I'd then guess that the market for what they are producing is
    not so good either.


Note 1603.10           Stallion Marketing Advice Requested            10 of 11
    [...]
>   We used to breed. Because we wanted
>   particular qualities, ...
>   .. an appropriate horse to ride than to breed one EVEN if you have a good
>   or outstanding mare and breed her to the best stud in the world. You'll
>   probably get a good horse but...we never got what we wanted.
    
    I lost track of the "breeding" note from awhile back, but if you ARE
    an expert in genetics and breeding, the odds are 999 out of a 1,000
    that I can buy an equal horse to anything youl'l breed and for
    less money than your costs.

    Not really trying to discourage you from doing this, if I had
    the room I'd try it too, but do so with your eyes wide open.    

    Bill

    
    
    THIS IS MY FIRST ENTRY IN THIS FILE SO BEAR WITH ME AND MAYBE I CAN GET
    MY POINT ACROSS.  I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE ARAB MARKET, BUT I'VE
    PLAYED WITH QUARTER HORSES FOR BETTER THAN THIRTY YEARS.  QUARTER
    STALLIONS ARE MARKETED THRU INCENTIVE FUNDS, FUTURITIES, AND MOSTLY
    THEIR INDIVIDUAL ABILITY TO PERFORM IN THEIR FIELD OF CHOICE, BE THAT
    REINING, CUTTING, PLEASURE, HALTER ECT.  THE BEST PLACE FOR YOU TO
    PROMOTE YOUR STALLION IS AT LARGE SHOWS WHERE HE CAN BE SEEN BY
    PROSPECTIVE BREEDERS (MARE OWNERS) WHILE HE IS DOING WHATEVER IT IS
    THAT HE DOES BEST.  
        IN TODAYS HORSE INDUSTRY WE SEEM TO BE SEEING A GLUT OF STALLIONS
    OF ALL BREEDS, QUARTER HORSES IN PATICULAR.  THERE SEEMS TO BE A
    QUARTER STALLION ON EVERY CORNER AND BEHIND EVERY TREE, AT LEAST HERE
    IN OHIO, SO TO ATTRACT MARE OWNERS YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN ANIMAL THAT NOT
    ONLY HAS GOOD BLOODLINES BUT HAS THE ABILITY TO COMPETE AND WIN!!!
        THIS IS THE VIEW FROM THE QUARTER SIDE OF THE FENCE AND I DOUBT
    THAT IT IS MUCH DIFFERENT ON THE ARAB SIDE.  
    
        I WISH YOU LUCK IN YOUR EFFORTS.
                                 GARY C

    I tend to agree with Melinda.  I have been around and worked with many
    TB's and Arabs.  I have found them to be quite a handfull at any age or
    stage of training.  I would go for the adult amatures who feel they are
    ready to enter the broodmare arena.
    
    vlm

    Well, sports fans, just a quick update on the life and times of
    Back Bey.
    
    A couple of weeks ago I had a message on my answering machine from a
    gentleman with an accented voice ... please call back.  So I did.  He
    was staying in Cambridge while taking a two-week seminar at Harvard.
    He wanted to come out and see my horses because he breeds Arabians at
    his home in Brazil.  Fine.  I invited him to come to Harvard on Sunday
    afternoon. 
    
    He came, he looked, we drove to New Hampshire to see Back Bey.  Love
    at first sight.  He want to breed to Bey this year but all his mares
    are in Brazil.  No problem...we can lease mares.  FIVE OF THEM!!!!!!
    So I'm in the process of finding five top mares...we want two Khemosabi
    daughters (I have one already), one Padron daughter, one Aladdin
    daughter, and one Eqyptian-related mare.  It's getting late in the
    season but people just aren't breeding all their mares the way they
    used to.
    
    So, life just got a lot more exciting around my house!  And it looks
    like we're going to be able to afford to go to the Nationals after all!
    
    gwen
    

    Congratulations and Good Luck!!!
    
    Mary

    That's great Gwen! Don't worry about it being late in the season!
    Brazil's Spring is our fall so these "late breedings" in the Northern
    Hemisphere will produce "early foals" down south!
    
    BTW, I want to comment on something that was said a note or two back
    about Arabs being obnoxious and unsuitable for kids. That's just plain
    BULL! Every Arab I've ever met was a kind sensible horse at heart.
    Sure, some of them had been frightened with fire extinguishers or
    something to make them more "animated" in the show ring but should we
    blame horses for the criminal acts of humans?
    
    Both Jan and I rode Arabs as kids and at The Van Schaik Riding Academy.
    I would sooner entrust a child to an Arab than to a Shetland pony!
    
    John

    I remember when I went looking at horses to buy some 15 years ago.  One
    place I went raised arabians.  THe gelding I looked at was turned out
    in a paddock with the women's 4 year old son and his toy trucks.  She
    called the horse her babysitter.  I'm not sure I would go *that* far
    with a horse, but she knew him better than I did...
    
    Mary :-)

Please,  Let's not start up the Arabian's are not wild discussion here.
That has already been discussed in another note.  This is just for
stallion marketing advice, and we should limit our discussion to that
topic.

Thank you,

Ed..

    I think it's entirely appropriate to refute in this topic 
    accusations/allegations that were made in this topic. It is unlikely
    that someone reading the earlier comments that "Arabs are wild and
    untrustworthy" would either know about or read the discussion on Arabs
    in other notes.

    This weekend I flew to Atlanta to look at mares.  I found a very nice
    Khemosabi daughter and all that remains is to get my lawyer to send
    the owners a contract.  
    
    One of the farms we visited was Jabar Arabians.  They have some very
    nice horses and some that I didn't think were that great.  But, there
    were some really pretty gray mares and the trainer kept mumbling, "This
    is so-and-so, by mumble and out of Bintmumble"  Finally, I got close
    enough to him to hear was he was saying and the mother of these pretty
    mares is Bint Emaus.  Family.  Then I looked at them all again and saw
    my own mare looking back at me.  Amazing.  
    
    Also, there's a Bask Clasix daughter out of a Khemosabi daughter that
    I found.  I don't think I can use her but she's for sale.  She's 11
    years old, supposedly well-trained (good for a beginner with some
    riding experience), bay, very pretty, very very sweet.  The sale price
    is only $2,000 (negotiable).  She's not real tall...about 14.3.  But
    if you're short like me, that's tall enough.  If anyone is interested,
    I have a couple of pictures and a copy of her pedigree.  Just drop me
    a note.  This is a nice mare with a quality pedigree!
    
    And that's this week's update...stay tuned.
    
    gwen
    

    Keep us updated, Gwen.  This is really exciting!
    
    Mary

    Well, here's your weekly update to the saga.
    
    After a conversation with the man from Brazil, I called the woman
    in Georgia and bought the Bask Classix daughter.  We'll ship her
    to Happy Hollow Farm just as soon as possible (unless this virus
    messes us up completely) and breed her to Back Bey.  Then she'll
    come and live with me.
    
    I get to have a new Back Bey baby next spring!!!!!!!  What a treat.
    His babies are so sweet and pretty.
    
    So...this week I leave on Thursday a.m. for California to look at more
    mares.  A Khemosabi daughter out of an S.X. Saladin daughter, a *Padron
    daughter out of another S.X. Saladin daughter and an S.X. Saladin
    daughter.  (Kind of a lot of Serafix here, huh?  These babies are 
    going to have long legs -- I hope!  And long necks, and pretty heads,
    and long hips and croups and trot like Sky Watch and be national
    champion halter horses and make Back Bey famous....)
    
    Hey, I can dream.
    
    Stay tuned...more next week.
    
    gwen
      

    Ok, kids, here's the next installment.
    
    Last Thursday, I got on a plane and flew to Sacramento, CA.  On Friday
    I went to Coleal Farm in Herald, just south of Sacramento.  There I was
    to see a *Padron daughter out of a SX Saladin daughter to lease and also
    an own daughter of Saladin available to lease.  (btw, I've learned that
    Saladin is pronounced Saladeen, in case you're wondering)
    
    Anyway, the Coleals were just wonderful.  The family (Mr & Mrs and two
    daughters) do horses full time.  They have 30...an incredible
    collection of mares, mostly Saladin daughters.  Big, powerful mares,
    all bay with very little white.  Tall, long legged, long hips and
    croups, long necks, pretty and very similar.  They breed to big time
    horses like Bey Shah, Monogramm, Fame VF, Padron.  And they sell babies
    for major samoleons.
    
    Anyway, the horses were presented to me one at a time.  And they were
    all ready to step into the show ring...bathed, clipped and polished to
    a high gloss.  They brought them out, stood them up and then turned
    them loose in the ring.  What a treat!  I've followed their breeding
    program for a long time and have always wanted to meet them and see
    their horses.  These people know what they're doing and how to market!
    
    So, I'm going to lease a 5-year-old Padron daughter and an older (9 I
    think) Saladin daughter who is out of a Huckleberry Bey daughter.  I, 
    of course, brought tapes of my horse so they could see what they were 
    getting into and they were most impressed (you don't supposed they were 
    just being polite?).
    
    Then they showed me the young stock.  They have a 2-month-old colt
    by Fame VF out of a Saladin daughter.  What a knock-out!  Black bay,
    not a white hair on him.  Tall, long legs, sweet as can be but with
    a "hey! look at me!" attitude.  And the prettiest head I've ever seen
    on a baby colt.  I'm recommending that my friend in Brazil snap him up.
    
    ok, that was Friday.
    
    Saturday I drove up to Red Bluff, about 140 miles north of Sacramento.
    This farm is more like reality.  The people do other stuff to support
    the horses.  They also have very good stock.  I'm leasing a very nice
    Khemosabi daughter (out of a Bask-Tez daughter) from them.  Her name
    is Khemille and she has the prettiest head of all the mares I've found
    to lease.
    
    After I left that farm, I drove back to Sacramento, acted like a
    tourist for a while on Sunday and came home.  And after the heat in
    California I was very happy to see 75 degree Massachusetts!
    
    Next week, Ft Wayne, Indiana, where I'll visit with the first mare
    to be bred in this saga.
    
    stay tuned,
    gwen