Conference noted::equitation

    Having a 75 acre pasture with 12 horses in it, I can relate to
    your problem, except that my two are worse than dogs, no halter
    or lead rope necessary, they'll just follow.  If the horse is out
    to pasture day and night, what you have to do is associate you 
    catching her as not so bad.  Start by going to the barn, catching
    the horse, bringing her in to feed her grain, then don't ride her
    brush her instead.  She will then associate being caught with the
    fact that you aren't necessarily going to ride her.  But make sure
    every time you catch her that you give her a treat before putting
    her back out.  This has worked for us for years, and now we can
    go to the gate and call certain horses and they come running!   

    i've had problems like that, i once read to walk them down, tried
    it once and gave up...
    
    	i would say call them in if they dont come bring some grain
    with ya, and feed them in the barn....
    
    my mare comes to me, just becuase she likes to be with people..
    shes funny, rather be with people than horses.
    

My horse only did this to me twice.  After being stables through the
    winter, he wasn't so keen about coming in,  I ould chase him aroun
    for about half an hour and every so often he would run at me.  After
    the second time I was livid, and he knew it, and I gave him such
    a work out in the school,  that it seemed to work, he knew I was
    cross with him, and became really creepy.  Any way we overcame this
    problem in several ways, one was...
    two of us went down to the field, one would unwrap the polo's whilst
    the other put on the head collar...
    when we got to the gate and closed it behind us he would get another
    treat, and then when we got to the yard he would get yet another
    treat, so he associates coming out of the field as a treat and getting
    to the yard as a treat...
    the last of them which has been mentioned is just going to the field
    just to say hello and give him a bit of a fussing a small treat
    and then leaving without him.
    Catching him now is no problem at all, he,s as good as gold.
    
    But I do know how imbarrasing it is, as your horse will always go
    to someone else but you, as does another girl who can take an hour
    to catch her horse. but if someone else is in the field it will
    always go to that person and not her.  Unfortunately she thinks
    she knows how to catch her horse and wont listen to a bit of advise.
    
    any way good luck...
    
    Helena 
    

    Try pretending you're not really interested in him, and ostentatiously
    start to eat the carrot you've taken for him.  The only time my
    pony decided to play the hard to catch game, I did this, and he
    came straight to me.  He's never done it since.
    
    Or of there are other horses in the field, make a fuss of them.
    
    Helen.

    	Michelle, you  mentioned in .3 that you turn Coco out in a leather
    halter. I know that it;s been mentioned elsewhere in this file,
    but, turning a horse out in a halter is dangerous. We almost lost
    an Appaloosa stallion when his halter became entangled on a pipe
    that was sticking out from the groung about a foot outside the paddock.
    Fortunately, the halter broke before his neck. He was badly skinned
    up and burned from the halter.
    
    	George
    

    
    
      When I first got my buddy, he was tough to catch... specially when
      I entered the paddock with a halter a lead. I would spend an hour
      or so just trying to get near him. It took me two weeks of all
      treats and no work to get him over this.
    
      I new his weakness was his stomach so this made things easy.
      I would enter the paddock with a halter/lead and treat and just
      follow him around at a walk untill he gave in. Then halter him,
      give him the treat and release him. I did this every day, sometimes
      twice a day. By week two, he would just about halter himself.  
      Then I continued his ussual daily workout with no more hard-to-
      catch problems. Now he comes by name...and even shakes hands with
      me. Amazing what food can do for ones ego!

    Moderator please move this to where it should be.
    
    	Well I write this quiet humbly. A few weeks ago I wrote
    about catching "any horse" with a bucket of grain...
    	Met my match today.
    
    	My wife fell in love with a green broke lepard appy.
    Please don't jump all over me but I got her at a auction.
    A friend of mine was at the auction with a trailer, so we 	
    we got her home with out a problem. 
    	
    	My gelding wenneed and they started to run around together
    right away. This was Saturday.
    	Went out today to see how she rode. Previous had only seen
    a hand at the (hate this word) Auction ride her.  I tried	
    carrots, pellets, brushing....She took off across my pasture
    (3.75 acres). Tacked up Beau and out we go. We tried traping here in a
    corner, tried roping her, (boy have I forgotten how to throw a rope).
    Two hours later I lead her (with food) me on foot into my goat pen.
    	I waved my rope for about an hour, She finally stopped and stood in
    a corner. Went up to her and draped the rope around her neck. Lead her
    around for a few minutes and was able to slip the halter on her.
    	She took the western saddle without a problem. used a hackamore
    and she did ok for a 12 year old brood mare.
    
    Signed,
    	  Humble pie eating,
    				Carl

    
    Ah, you have got a "runner", hmmm?
    
    What my trainer told me to do when my horse pulled this stunt....
    
    Calmly go get a lunge whip and chase the horse, keeping the horse
    from resting.  When the horse tries to stop, keep him/her moving.
    When the horse is nice and tired, and quite willing to stop, give
    the whoa command.  Quietly catch the horse, take it in and tack
    up and ride.  They quickly learn that running away isn't fun anymore(8!
    
    

    re .1
    
    Sounds like a great method.  I'm sure it works!  I've heard of (and
    used) a similar trick for a when a horse gets really behind the bit
    and starts running backwards -- once he starts, make him keep backing 
    up until he wishes he never even *considered* backing up.  It really 
    works.
    
    -ellie

    Ah yes, backing.  I remember once last winter Algiers backed all the
    way down the long side of the indoor.  Thought we were going to back
    right through the mirror!

    REGARDING A RUNNER......Luckily I have only a 1/2 acr corrall.  My
    gelding always runs when he this I'm going to ride.  Only me, he never
    runs for my husband or daughter.  He even has my paint doing it to me. 
    Yes, for 4 yrs now I've gotten the lunge whip and chase til he can't
    or won't run anymore!!  Except 30 minutes or running after a horse with
    a whip takes the fun out of it!!!  
    
    So now, I never go out without carrots and whistle for them to
    come...they hear whistle and bingo!!!  here they coming
    gallopping...but you gotta make sure you get the halter on before they
    take off.  This is also great if they make an escape.  One night our
    gelding (the escape artist) got out.  We could hear him crashing
    through the woods, all we did was whistle and he turned around and came
    home.  
    
    The chasing probably works for 99% of horses, but I have one of those
    bone heads.  He happens to love a good chase...you should see him with
    the dog!!
    
    

	I can see how the chasing would work -- kind of using
	reverse psychology.  But the last thing I want is my
	horse galloping around like a nut outside.  A horse is
	more likely to injur himself in his own turnout than
	he is under saddle for most purposes.  

	In the past I've tried the carrot trick, or shaking a grain
	bucket.  That wouldn't work for one horse.  What did work
	was having  him associate being caught with dinner time
	and then 1 or 2 hours later, he'd be ridden, after he'd
	already been in his stall.   I'd rather change my whole
	riding schedule than risk the horse getting injured.

	Melinda

	
	


	


	

    Re. running them
    
    I assume that someone would try this only if the pasture/
    corral footing, etc. would allow it safely.  
    
    If the pasture is a rock field, or ankle deep in muck, then
    this is NOT a thing to do.  You also *never* hit the horse,
    or corner the horse so that it feels it has to escape, and
    trys to climb a fence or gate or wall....
    
    L

    This may cause Mary to into shock or something but I'm gonna agree with
    Melinda for the second time in as many days! ;-) 
    
    I would do as Melinda suggested rather than go to the chasing 
    routine. Changing your schedule is a lot less painful to both of you.
    
    If carrots or grain don't work, You might try some of LTJ's techniques. 
    At the TTEAM 7-day workshop I went to about 5 years ago, we had a horse
    that was very difficult to catch. A lot of the people there were even
    afraid to go into the small paddock to try to catch him because he ran
    away or over you to avoid getting caught. With LTJ's coaching, I caught
    him in less than 15 minutes with NO excitement and NO trauma to either 
    of us.
    
    I won't even try to repeat what happened that day. But, I do recommend
    that you try her laid back non-threatening techniques rather than
    chasing the horse.

    Oh, no.  Now I've seen everything.  John agreeing with Melinda!

I'm glad I used this method with my horse this spring.
She was difficult to catch when I first got her a year 
ago.  I ALWAYS gave her a treat when I finally caught her,
and her behavior improved but she still wasn't 100%
reliable by spring.

Anyway, just when I had started to think she was dependable,
she ran away one more time.  I hadn't even gone out to ride,
I wanted to bring her in to groom her to take her picture.
So when she ran from the pasture into the paddock, I closed
the gate behind her so we were in a smaller space.  I did not 
need a longe whip, I just waved my arms and walked slowly behind 
her to keep her moving every time she headed away from me.  
She did choose to gallop, but I did nothing to 
actually chase or scare her; I would have been satisfied for her
to maintain a trot.  She did not choose to let me approach her
until she was panting and soaked with sweat.

Of course, to this day, I've NEVER worked her as hard as
she worked herself to evade me!  She has been perfect for
me to catch ever since.

Also note that I didn't ride her the day of our confrontation,
and that I've gone out of my way to find her in the pasture 
and give her treats even when I'm not going to ride her.

Also, I would not call what I did "chasing."  It cost me
very little effort but it did take about 15 unplanned minutes, plus
then I had to cool her out!  I never had to do it again; I only
did it once.  It gave her a very clear idea of what her 
choices were:  be caught and treated well and worked lightly,
if at all, or run and work REAL HARD...and then get caught anyway.

>    Yes, for 4 yrs now I've gotten the lunge whip and chase til he can't
>    or won't run anymore!!  Except 30 minutes or running after a horse with
>    a whip takes the fun out of it!!!  

If you have to do this repeatedly, something's wrong.
The point certainly isn't to do more work than the horse!  
It sounds like this horse may have thought this is what you WANTED.  8-)

- Michelle

    This reminds me of something (dumb) I did when I was a teenager.
    My first horse had two bad vices - rearing and running away with me. 
    He was the only horse I've ever seen that could run a full gallop with
    his head tuching my foot.
    
    Anyway, I was crossing Rte 20 and he decided to rear and walk sideways
    down the road (on 2 feet) with a trailer truck coming.  When he finally
    decided to move it was to run away with me back to the barn (about 2
    miles away).  I lost my temper, grabbed a branch as we flew by, and
    made him run whenever he tried to slow down.  We got all the way to his
    field and I kept forcing him to run with the stick.  I didn't stop
    until he could barely walk, let alone run.  My neighbor came out and
    told me she thought I was going to kill him (he was quite visibly
    exhausted).
    
    It was pretty stupid of me, but he never ever ran away with me again.
    

Another little thing that disarms a horse's suspicions:
Don't walk directly toward the horse you're trying to catch.
Approach at an angle.  Walk past it.  (I had one horse 
that was shy about being approached directly but would 
follow me if I walked past her.)

- Michelle

  Ah... but sometimes catching is easy, it's getting them back to the barn
  that becomes frustrating!!  

  Once when I was taking lessons on a school horse, said horse was turned out 
  in a LARGE field.  He was easy to catch, but planted his feet when we (I?)
  headed for the barn.  There was nothing available to use as a whip, so 
  noticing that he was quite willing to backup, I turned him around and BACKED
  him to the barn.  I did give him the opportunity to try going forward a few
  times, but he kept planting those legs, so... ;-)  (The surprise/shock in 
  his eyes as he realised that he was getting closer to the barn, but not
  going forward I'll remember for a LONG time!)


				-Caroline

P.S. I've used the above approach with my own horse when he's being particularly
  frustrating about passing something... like bicycles.  He didn't realize that
  we were along side them... at that point he was soooo relieved to be allowed
  to turn around and go forward he forgot what he was fussing about! 

    
    
    There are some nationally famous no-abuse trainers that encourage
    you to use a round pen to teach a horse to not run from you.  If they 
    don't allow you to approach, then let them exercise seriously until 
    they change their mind.  This is in a controlled environment.  And it
    is not necessarily dangerous for horse or rider (certainly not as 
    dangerous as getting your hands on a horse that thinks they ought to 
    climb up your back, through your nose and down your front).  This logic
    carries over to trailer loading, leading, riding, running away, etc. 
    
    
    And I personnally have used this approach on horses that really didn't
    want to cooperate for willful reasons.  In fact, we have one right now
    that physically injured her owner 3 times being willful.  And she 
    definitely has had a change of attitude and is very pleasant to deal 
    with.  And it didn't take whips, chains, severe bits, spurs, etc to get
    her to change her mind.  Just some serious physical effort on her part
    when she decided to get out of hand. 

    Update on the running Appy.
    
    My wife named her Sadie.  After my first try at catching her (.0)
    She has been ok. What I do is play,pet, brush my other horse.
    Sadie get real curious and comes over. I start brushing her,
    scratching her belly, rubbing her back. She has discovered she
    likes the attention. 
    	Today we rode for about an hour. Had My niece ride Beau,
    and Sadie kinda followed along. She can stop ok, but has no 
    idea what a heel in her sides means..
    	Next weekend I may try a bit. Sadie came through the vet check 
    ok, and teeth were floated. The idea of working in a round pen 
    is what the professionals have told me. Now all I have to do is
    build one.
    
    	Thanks for the suggestions and stories,
    						Carl