Conference noted::equitation

    KAREN,
    
    I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS WILL BE ANY HELP OR NOT TO YOU , BUT I WOULD
    SUGGEST THAT YOU CONTACT A QUARTER HORSE TRAINER( LOOK IN THE HORSEMENS
    PEDLAR) AND YOU CAN GET NAMES OF BREEDERS AND TRAINERS. I TOO WENT
    THROUGH THE SAME THING A FEW YEARS AGO. 
    
    I OWN APPYS AND WENT WITH A QH TREE I BELIEVE IT WAS, I WAS TOLD
    BY OTHER APPY PEOPLE THAT SHOW ALOT AT THE REGIONAL SHOWS TO GET
    AN EQUITATION SEAT, AND NOT TO GET THE SADDLE WITH TTHE DOUBLE RIGGING
    THE BUCK STRAP AS IT IS OFTEN CALLED. I DESIDED TO GO WITH A NICE
    SADDLE THAT HAD VERY LITTLE TO NO TOOLING ON IT AND SILVER LACEING
    AROUND THE OUT SIDE EDGEOF THE SKIRT AND ON THE BACK OF THE OF THE
    SEAT AND A LITTLE IN FRONT OF THE HORN. I CAN ADD MORE SILVE TO
    THE CORNERS LATER IF I DESIDE TO. I WENT WITH THE SWEDE SEAT, I
    HAVE ANOTHER OLDER STOCK SADDLE THAT IS GREAT TRAIL RIDING AND THAT
    IS A PLAN LEATHER SEAT. THE SWEDE WILL WEAR OFF IN TIME AND USE
    OF COURSE. I FIND BOTH SADDLE VERY COMFORTABLE TO RIDE IN BUT THE
    STOCK SEAT AND EQUITATION SEAT IS DIFFERENT...THE STOCK SEAT IS
    A FLATER TYPE SEAT AND THE EQUITATION SEAT IS A LITTLE DEEPER SEAT.
    
    ALSO GO TO SOME TACK SHOPS (SADDLE SHED IN GRAFTON, OR STATE LINE
    IN N.H ) AND SIT ON A BUNCH OF THEM AND SEE WHAT YOU FIND TO BE
    COMFORTABLE TO YOU...STATE LINE DOES HAVE A LARGE SELECTION TO CHOOSE
    FROM. 
    
    GOOD LUCK....

    Hi Karen,
    
    I also ride Western and found great prices at HOWARDS LEATHER AND
    TACK SHOP in N.H.  I bought a 16 inch Western Saddle, chest plate,
    bridle and blanket all for only $435.00 (Swede seat with tooling
    on it) It does have a buck strap on it witch can be removed. I will
    post the address for you here tomorrow.
    
    Good luck in your search and I did receive good service while I
    was there. If they do not have what you are looking for they will
    in some cases make it for you. 
    
    -D-  

    Karen...
    I do not have any specifics other than my husband and I are both
    very happy with our Circle Y.  Now it is my understanding that 
    Circle Y was bought out by another company and that the quality
    is now not as good.  Our saddles are about 15 years old.
    
    One other small piece of advice, in my opinion, be sure that the
    saddle fits both you and your horse.  I know of horror stories
    about inproper fits.
    
    Take your time..
    
    Good luck
    	

    KAREN
    I ALSO HAVE A CIRCKE Y JUST RECENTLY PURCHASED AND I LOVE THE SEAT
    IT'S VERY COMFY  IF YOU DON'T OBJECT TO DISTANCE THEN I KNOW OF
    2 MORE PLACES WHERE THEY HAVE A GOOD SELECTION AND EXCELLENT SERVICE
    FOR THIS WAS MY FIRST TIME BUYING A NEW SADDLE VS. USED.
    ALLIE'S TACK SHOP IN N.KINGSTON,R.I.  AND WIGWAM IN WINDHAM,CONN.
    BOTH HAVE ADDS IN THE HORSEMAN'S YANKEE PEDLAR.
    GOODLUCK
    

    I need to buy my first saddle and don't know anything about saddles.
    Can anyone give me some guidelines on buying a "NEW" saddle? I do
    not want a cheap, unsafe, saddle. I want one with leather that will
    last and look good 10 yrs from now and not fall apart. I want to
    know enough so that I can look at a saddle and assess the workmanship
    so that I can feel comfortable with my purchase. I need to know
    what to look for.
       
    	* How-to determine the quality of a saddle. 
    	             -tooling
    		     -stitching
    		     -leather 
    
    	* Does a high price, mean high quality in saddles?
    	
    	* How to sort through all the "Brand names" and come up with
    	  the quality you can trust ones?
    	
    	* How would I find a listing of saddle companies to purchase
    	  catalogs from?
    	

    From your note I am guessing you are looking for western. Many
    western saddles have a lot of tooling, but you will notice the
    ones with very little tooling are more expensive. This is because
    tooling covers flaws so untooled saddles are made with better
    leather. What kind of tree, is a good question to ask. I have
    3 saddles that have Rawlide (a very strong plastic) trees that
    are in excellent shape, the oldest is 15 years. Wooden trees
    though traditional, are more subject to breaking when they get
    old. Other things to look for: Safety stirrups instead of plain
    buckles. Extra piece of leather sewn on under where the leather
    for the stirrup goes to protect the stiching from wear. Double
    leather for the stirrup instead of the flap and leather being
    all one piece. Saddle strings being laced through the tree instead
    of just being decorations. Better saddles generally have leather
    covered stirrups rather than plain wood with metal covering or
    plastic.
    All important is that the saddle fit the horse and its intended
    rider. Western saddles come with sizes such as Quarter horse bars
    or Arabian style just to confuse you. Seat size for most riders
    is 15 inch, measured from the back of the horn to the front of the
    cantle. Most saddle shops will give you the right to return a saddle
    if it doesn't fit as long as you don't get it dirty. Fit on a western
    saddle is determined by whether the cantle is even with the top
    of the swells in the front and the front sits up high enough you
    can easily put your fingers under it but not so high that it pinches
    the horses shoulders with each step.
    Good-Luck in your search,
    Sandy
    

    
    A little advice on Saddle buying after you decide what to buy. 
    When I used to work at State Line Tack Shop several years ago, people
    used to come from hundreds of miles away to shop.  State Line's
    policy is that you can buy the saddle and try it on your horse and
    return it if it doesn't fit.  Well, you can try it on your horse
    but do not attach the girth or put the stirrup leathers on.  Basically,
    just "see" how it fits.  Also, I remember a woman who had come all
    that way to Plaistow NH from Rhode Island to return a saddle that
    she had purchased that really was not what she wanted.  She wanted
    a refund which State Line had told her when she bought the saddle
    that she could get if she didn't like it.
    
    Well, she drove all the way up there on a Saturday and "bookkeeping"
    is closed on Saturday and she could not have a refund.  (They have
    to issue a check) she was told she could leave the saddle and they
    would send her a check on Wednesday, (the only day "bookkeeping"
    cuts refund checks) or drive back with the saddle again Monday through
    Friday from 10 - 5:00.  Well, most people work at that time so you
    can imagine how upset she was.  I felt so bad for her, she was not
    given the correct information when she bought the saddle and now
    had to drive all the way home and back again.  
    
    Check the return or exchange policy thoroughly!
    
    

                        
    Yes,
    I would like to buy a western saddle. I want to spend around 
    $1,000.00 for a saddle that will last. What's the quality like
    in this price range?

    You should be able to get a *Top* quality Western Saddle in that
    Range. You should try Allies Tack shop in RI, possibly Parade Acres 
    in Concord NH, both places have a decent selection. I have found 
    the Richard Shrake line from Circle Y to be my favorite, they are
    priced in that area. Treat this purchase like you would a car, don't
    let the sellers intimidate you, your the one with the time and money...
    keep your eye on what you want and the best price possible. Do alot
    of test sitting...
    
    Good luck
    Marianne
    

    
    To complicate things...I need the western saddle to fit an Arab
    and would also like it to be comfortable not only for me, but also
    my husband. We know we need a 16" saddle for size. Is this possible?
    How limited am I to the amount of saddles that come in 16" arab
    size?

    Your other choice is a custom made to fit you and the horse saddle
    by Orthoflex. They start at about $1000 and work there way up based
    on various options. Very nice looking and appear very durable too.
    English, western, and endurance saddles available.
    

    
    
    You might also want to check out the Schniders catalog.  They
    specialize in Arab and National Show Horse tack and accessories.
    They have a large selection of western saddles that are made just
    to fit Arabs in a variety of seat sizes.  Prices range from around
    $800.00 to $3000.00 to $4000.00 for the silver show saddles.  I
    think the address to get the catalog from is listed elsewhere in
    the notes file.  If you can't find it, let me know and I will re-post
    it here.
    
    Pat

    One thing to watch for is whether you want a rounded skirt or a squared 
    skirt...it all depends on the length of the Arab's back.  If you get
    the
    opportunity be sure to try them for fit both for yourself and your
    horse
    and how the saddle looks on the horse.
    
    Good Luck.
    

    what about an Aussie outback saddle?  They come in small, med and lg
    tree sizes.  They also have them built for QH's, Arabs ect.
    
    It is real comfortable and if your real interested in a western look, 
    they come with horn, back cinch and western style fenders and stirrups.
    

    Does anyone have any experience with the following brands of Western
    saddles ?  I've seen some pretty good prices but want to make certain
    of quality.
    
    - Blue Ridge  (Shamrock Acres Supply - Brentwood NH)
    - Sandstone          "           "
    - Simco              "           "
    - Circle Y    (State Line Tack - Plaistow NH, Stable Yard - Hudson NH)
    - American           "     "
    - Crates             "     "
    - Textan
    - Double R    (Stable Yard Tack - Hudson NH)
    
     Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
    
     Bill M.
     KAHALA::MURPHY

    
    - Simco       Can be of low to moderate quality depending on when it 
                  was made and its price range.  
    - Circle Y    Can be VERY good quality, but there are less expensive 
                  lines which are low to moderate quality.
                  Lots of show saddles are of this line.  (I have one thats
                  14 years old and still looks great.  I trail ride in it 
                  between shows.)
    - Crates      Usually a real solid saddle, made well.  Usually not
                  fancy.  You see lots of Crates for ranchers.
    - Textan      Low to moderate quality depending on what you buy.
   
    

    I'll agree with Crates and Circle Y in the previous note, but I have
    to add a little to TexTan and Simco. Simco a few years ago came out
    with some really shabby equipment and got a bad reputation for it. They
    really do have some nice things, but its at the top of the line...you
    definately have to know what you're looking at. TexTan on the other
    hand is one of the best makers of equipment. Again, each manufacturer 
    has a lower quality line made for inexpensive purchases, but I will
    go with TexTan any day. Again, with any saddle know what your price
    range is and what quality you can expect to get. If possible, try and
    seek out a good used saddle of better quality, than a new fancy looking
    poorly made one. 
    
    Good luck!
    Marianne
    

    Have had my Circly y for 15 years...really love it and it still looks
    good.  In addition my husband has one that I have been trying to sell
    out from underneath him and he won't part with it....must be 25 years
    old and going strong.
    

    Thanks for all the input !  I've been driving myself crazy with this 
    saddle search but I've finally ended it !
    
    A few people that I consider to be knowledgeable that knew both my
    price range and what work I was planning on suggested a specific Textan 
    from Stable Yard Tack in Hudson NH.   Sooooooooooooooooo, I finally dished
    out the cash and bought it.  Hopefully I will have good luck with it.
    
    Thanks again,
     Bill M.

    Western riders input:
    1&2 - never heard of
    Simco - not a bad saddle
    Circle Y - seemed to be very popular at the local shows
               mostly as a show saddle in western pleasure, etc.
               has nice matching breastplates & bridles, too.
    American-also never heard of
    Crates - also not bad 
    Textan - Yes!  nice saddles! (but $$$$)
    Double R - about along same lines as Crates and under a Circle Y
    
    Hope this helps
    
    Lynne

    Hi, I just bought an American Quarter Horse and now have to buy him a
    new saddle, since the one I have been saving for years from my first
    horse is to narrow for him.  I am looking for a western saddle and
    have been looking through catalogs and keep seeing the quote on some
    of the saddles "has full Quarter Horse bars"  I assume it has something
    to do with the width of the saddle but no one at the local tack shops
    seem to know much about it.  Can anyone explain to me exactly what
    that means?  Poco is 15h and weighs appx. 1500 lbs. and has the
    typical QH build.  I would appreciate any info. that will help me get
    the right saddle for him.  I don't plan on showing him, he's for
    pleasure and trail riding.
    
    Thanks
    
    Susie

    Quarter horse bars, means the saddle has a wide tree. As you have
    already discovered, QH have wide soulders and many saddles do not fit.
    If you are buying western, Quarter horse bars mean it will fit your
    horse!

HI!

I'm currently riding my horse in a borrowed 'side pull'.  Does anyone
out there know a tack shop that stocks these critters?  I have scoured
the catalogs and could only find one that had a single rope noseband rather
than the double that I'm currently using.  Also, they seem to have an
epoxy resin coating the rope and I don't want that either.

If you know of a tack shop or someone that could make one please let
me know.  Since I'm in Atlanta, I'd need phone numbers if you have them.

Thanks,

Jan

    Could you describe in detail what it is you are trying
    to find?

Hmmm, well lemme see.

Its a plain headstall that utilizes two pieces of rope over the nose.  There
is no bit and the two pieces of rope act like a hackamore when pulled
on by the reigns.  The side pull comes in a single rope or double rope
variety.

Forgive me, but I'm not a western style rider and I don't know if this
is a common arrangement or not.  We're using this equipment to allow
me to progress with keeping my hands quiet, rather than my bumping him
in the mouth with a bit all the time.  Also, I have *alot* more stopping
power with the side pull on the trail.  

Does that clear it up any?

Jan

State Line Tack Shop in Plaistow, NH carries (or used to carry) both
single and double sidepulls, and sidepulls with snaffles. i've also
seen them in a number of mail order catalogs...this is vague memory
and so probably fallacious, but check United Vet Equine, Valley Vet,
and Jeffers catalogues if you have them.

Good luck. should set you back $24 - $30.

-cj

    Re .7
    
    Yes...I'll try to remember to look at all my catalogs
    for the names & tel# tonight....(I get most every western
    equipment catalog in the U.S.)
    
    L-

    State Line Tack in NH does have them, as a barn buddy just got one.
    
    Call 1-800-228-9208.

    The following catalogs have them:
    
    Chicks  1-800-444-2441  (Harrington, DE)
    United Vet Equine pg 45  1-800-328-6652  (Eden Prairie, MN)
    (has a bit)
    Jeffers Vet Supply pg 61 1-800-533-3377 (Dothan, AL)
    (double rope/no bit $25.15)
    Horsemens Store 1-800-343-0167  (OH)
    Bargain Corral  1-800-955-5616  (Wylie, TX)
    
    L-

Thanks, guys!  I *really* appreciate this!

Jan

    Help!  I just bought a new barrel racing saddle.  I don't know how a
    saddle should fit but this one seemed adequate so I didn't think any
    more of it until I had my first riding lesson last night.  My
    instructor said it is too small because my knees extend past the
    fenders.  She said a properly fitted saddle should have the stirrup
    leathers set further forward, otherwise the rider is pushed too far
    back in the seat.  I watched her while she loped the horse while using
    my saddle and she looked a little cramped.  We happen to both be the
    same size.  So, I traded it for a larger one.  Then, I was told, that a
    barrel racing saddle, unlike western pleasure, SHOULD be cramped so
    that the rider has closer contact with the swells for sharp turns. I
    would think this would restrict mobility in the saddle.  Also, it tends
    to place the feet below the rider instead of in front.
    
    My instructor has no experience with barrel racing.  I am 5'6, 110 lbs and
    don't have short legs.  My original saddle was 14" and I traded for a
    15".  Who should I listen to, the instructor or the salesman?

    
    Listen to your body.  If you are comfortable, and not getting
    off the horse after the lesson feeling like a cramped pretzel,
    then the saddle fits you.  It needs to fit the horse, also.
    
    

    
    A 14" western saddle for a person 5'6" is mighty small.  I know
    some short, thin adults that ride in 14 1/2" comfortably.  Most adults
    use a 15" or 15 1/2" seat depending on the shaped of the seat and 
    cantle. 

    You sound about my size and my barrel saddle is a 15" seat.  I have
    never heard anything about being cramped in a saddle....but I'll ask
    my friend who does it.

    Does anyone know the different Western saddle brands?
    I just picked up a Circle Y??  I have no idea if this
    is supposed to be a good brand or not.  I do know that
    it's about the most comfortable saddle I've ever ridden
    on.
    
    Any input would be great.
    
    thanks...jane
    

    I have a 17yo Circle Y saddle I bought used 2 years ago and its still
    going strong.  Circle Y is considered by many to be one of the top
    quality western saddles available.  It gets my vote!

    
    Ditto!  Circle Y is a good quality western saddle!
    
    Lynne

    I have come across a western show breastplate, made of obviously excellent
    quality leather, and in mint condition - I'm not even sure it's ever
    been on a horse.  It is wide, tan leather and has a lot of pretty
    detailed tooling on the part that goes across the chest.  It is stamped
    with a mark that says "Handcrafted by Chuck Bugbee", and is signed with
    his initials - but no date.  
    
    Has anyone heard of this maker?  I'd like to get an idea of how old
    the breastplate is before deciding if I want to sell it or not.
    
    

    Try calling Harvey Flagg in Ayer (508) 772-2098.  He specializes in old
    western tack and he may well know about your breastplate.