Conference noted::bicycle

    
    I presume you have setup the brakes for optimum performance,
    
    (1) Point 1(L) is the point where the straddle cable meets
        with the left brake arm.  Point 1(R) is the point where
        the straddle cable meets with the right brake arm.
        Point 2 is the yoke (where the brake cable meets the
        straddle cable).  Point 3(L) is the point about which
        the left brake arm rotates.  Point 3(R) is the point
        about which the right brake arm rotates.
    
    (2) Line a(L) is the line through point 1(L) and point 2.
        Line b(L) is the line through point 3(L) and point 2.
    
        These lines should form an angle as close to 90 degrees
        as possible.  The same is true of line a(R) and a(L).
        This usually leaves point 2 very close to the tyre, its
        your call how much room you'll need here for mud clearance.
    
    See the brake blocks note for details of how to set up brake
    blocks and the kinds recommended by riders in the conference.
    
    If you still feel your brakes are the weak point, I can
    recommend LX and XT since I've used them.  Unlike the
    deraileurs though, XT has very little advantage over LX.
    I've yet to hear of XTR being recommended to anyone without
    sponsorship.
    
    Of course if you run GripShift, your choice if levers and
    brakes will be completely different.  I've never run
    GripShift and I don't think I ever will since I regularily
    change gears (sometimes front and back) and brake at the
    same time, unusual? I think not. 

    
    Thanks for the pointers.  I'm not totally dissatisfied with
    my braking performance currently, but the Alivio brakes
    that came with the bike aren't real strong.  I need to apply
    significantly more force to achieve lock-up than I did with
    XT brakes on my old bike.  I'm also getting uneven wear out 
    of my brake pads.  I think these are indications that there
    is excessive flex in the Alivio arms.
    
    BTY - the straddle cable I have is one of those idiot-proof
    set length cables, so I think my current setup is within
    reasonable limits.
    
    /John

    
    The idiot proof straddle cable just makes it easier to keep
    distance between point 2 and point 1(L) equal to the distance
    between and point 2 and point 1(R).
    
    Once this distance it set, the angles will match on both
    sides but the actual angle is related to the distance between
    point 2 and the tyre.  Moving this point towards the tyre
    will reduce the angle towards 90 degrees (in most cases).
    
    

    John,
    
     The best brakes I've seen ever,as far as just rim crushing power,are the 
    new Shimano XT/XTR V brakes.You can get these for about $ 50. an end for
    the XT's.I don't know if they're just a passing fad.There is no
    modualation it's just on or off,but gawd they'll flip you on your face
    if you're not carefull.Just a thought.
    
                                          Later
                     
                                           J.B.

    just curious, but what does frequently changing gears have to do with
    grip shift set-ups?

>    Of course if you run GripShift, your choice if levers and
>    brakes will be completely different.  I've never run
>    GripShift and I don't think I ever will since I regularily
>    change gears (sometimes front and back) and brake at the
>    same time, unusual? I think not.

This man cannot be an American - I seem to remember something along the lines 
of marching and chewing gum at the same time ... 

    
    To change gears using GripShift you gotta twist, wrist goes up
    or wrist goes down.  This makes changing gears while braking
    rather difficult, don't you think?
    

>                     -< Let me guess, you got Gripshifts? >-
>    To change gears using GripShift you gotta twist, wrist goes up
>    or wrist goes down.  This makes changing gears while braking
>    rather difficult, don't you think?
    

Got 'em, like 'em.  No major problems with shifting and braking.  I do agree
its easier to shift and brake simultaneously with Shimano, but I dont notice
any undo stress with my limitation.

.02
roger

    agreed... one other point, if you find yourself doing this all the time
    you need to re-assess your riding technique because you're probably in
    the wrong gear a lot of the time or are not planning ahead enough.

    
    	You can shift with your palm, thumb and 1st couple fingers, and
    	brake with your other 3 fingers, yes?
    

    
    Hmm... And there I was thinking Shimano was onto something.
    So people don't actually change gears and brake at the same
    time?  It sure sounded convincing.
    
    That changes things slightly.  Now you've got a whole slew
    of brake levers to choose from if you're not happy with
    your (now adjusted and ready to lock up immediately) brake
    setup, and...  I haven't got the slightest clue about any
    of them, so its over to you chappies with the GripShifts.
    
    

I've never really been in a situation where I'd want to brake and shift at the
same time.  I have to agree with Chip, you should probably reassess your riding
style and be prepared for life's little surprises if you find yourself braking
and shifting simultaneously on a frequent basis. Grip Shift is a good shifting
system and for powerful braking try the new Shimano V Brake.  For some more
money try Magura Hydraulics, I use these and have no complaints.

				- Shawn 

If your shifting you must be pedaling.  Wouldn't pedaling and braking be a
contradiction?

    -1 only if you expect it to go into another gear :-).
    
       I was in Goodale's Saturday (snooping with my brother-in-law). The
       guy said that the new V brakes are awesome. They do look cool.
    
       Chip

Shimano had a demo bike at Mt Snow last year set up with the '96 XTR prototypes,
if they stop as good as they look then they'll probably be the best canti's out
there next to hydraulics
					-Shawn 8^)

    Unfortunately these new V brakes need a lever that can move a lot of
    cable.  For us tandem people, this eliminates the use of this product.
    
    steve

    i was playing with some models with these brakes and really didn't
    notice a lot of travel required over the regular cantys...
    
    i'll have to pay closer attention the next time i'm in a shop.

    I believe the brake lever handles the extra cable travel, so if you
    are using after market levers it may feel different
    
    steve

    
    I don't do it every ride, however when I do, it's generally on a
    bitchin steep downhill, with a sharp graduation into a severe uphill.
    On the way down the hill you feather the back brake, because you're
    rolling you can turn the cranks without applying any force on the
    rear wheel, and you can now shift the back gear a few clicks, or
    even shift the front one if you need to, now you get to the bottom
    in gear and are ready to pedal as soon as whatever momentum you have
    dissipates.
    

I've done this with my grip shifters.  There may be better setup but this 
definitely works with grip shifters.  I think you have to try it to see if 
you will like it.

Rick

    
    You did? I honestly still have trouble envisoning it.  Maybe you're
    right and I should try it out, none of the guys I ride with use 'em
    though!  Oh well...

         I was in a shop last week where they were building a Merlin with
    the Magura hydraulics.  I asked why not the v brakes and was told that
    the v brakes, because of the enormous leverage, require that they be
    held to 1/8" off the rim.  This, they found, clogged with mud and grit
    to readily.  The hydraulics have much more travel.
    
         FWIW, as a rank beginner, I too find myself going down hill with
    an immediate climb (usually with water at the bottom!) and downshift
    while braking and descending - even if I'm not pedaling.  It works for
    me... sometimes ;^)
    
    Tom

    I just got a bike with V brakes (XT).  They're great.  Really like
    them.  Dangerous to begin with - almost left the bike behind the first
    time I put them on going down my driveway.

What about ease of set up?   I have XT's, vintage '95.   I can set them up 
perfectly, but every time I change my brake pads it takes me an hour to get 
it right.  There has to be a better way to adjust the pads than that 
conical washer set up.  Every time you do one adjustment, another one gets 
messed up.  

Anyone with experience with Onza, Avid, Machine Tech, Critical Racing, etc?

I would spend $100 for the most easy to set up brakes, I just want to make 
sure it's "better", and not just "different".

thanx,
Mike

Well, I can say that Dia Compe 987 are a PITA to set up, but work fine.  If
cost is a factor, these are way up the list.  Ease of setup knocks them quite
hard, however.

.02
--Roger

    I just bought a bike with Avid SD 2.0 levers.  Problem is that there is
    no real information on how they work i.e. what the adjusters do. 
    Can anyone in here shed a little light on what the adjusting screws do?  
    
    Thanks,
    
    Brian