Conference noted::bicycle

    I have noticed bikes showing up in a lot of TV commercials for such
    non-related products as autos and even mutual funds.  It must be
    Madison Avenue's newfound discovery that putting a bike in a commercial
    automatically associates the product with 90's political correctness
    (exercise, non polluting, etc.) while at the same time associates
    the product with a broad demographic range (both sexes and a wide age
    range; everybody rides a bike, right?).
    
    At least the cheese ad had the woman wearing a helmet; that isn't
    always the case.  kb

    Cheese? Hmmmm... I guess if you want arteries like cannoli you 
    could get into eating it regularly while riding. 
    
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't cheese primarily fat calories?
    
    And, cheese is not easily digested (being a dairy product) so aren't
    we talking about approximately 10hrs. of body processing time?
    
    And, fat is our low intensity fuel so that intense cyclist is just
    putting lead in her butt, n'est pas?
    
    Fast food eh? I understand that the BK Whaler is fast food, but it
    sure ain't gonna make you fast!
    
    chip_who_admits_to_indulging_at_the_fast_sludge_spots_now_and_then

    Once, while I was on a ride in the mountains of Italy, I passed a
    farmer by the side of the road, selling home-made Fontina cheese. I
    bought a nice-sized hunk of it, and put it (wrapped in paper) in one of
    the pockets on the back of my jersey.  I can't say that it was good for
    me, but that stuff tasted GREAT.

I feel like that about gorgonzola, but I can't imagine what would happen if 
if was let loose in a back pocket.  Maybe if I encapsulated it in a lump of 
baguette as Rob Rowlands does with his Brie.....

I think at our level, providing you are sensible, you can eat ANYTHING....

(The problem is usually getting enough).

     I can see it now... MacDonald's & Burger King advertising a "No
     Wait" drive through bicycle Drive-Thru window along with how
     nutritional their fat bombs are!
    
     Or Long John Silver's cycling-sized popcorn shrimp...
    
     I guess if LeMond can pitch Taco Bell... 

Perhaps they are trying to market the calcium?

An article I read said that if your legs are cramping up to chow down some Tums.
This relieves the cramps due to the calcium content.

So you must have to eat the cheese in anticipation of getting cramps.

Allan

    But isn't Calcium only very marginally available when not present as 
    an organo-metallic compound ?

    Marginally available where? Dairy products are probably the best
    source but they drag some bad stuff with them.
    
    Calcium for cramps is new to me... I always heard the two best
    measures for avoidance (not curing - that's kneading) is hydration
    and potassium.
    
    I have heard Rolaids and Tums are good sources... 

    Sorry, `available' as in the dietry sense.  You can take in vast
    quantities on Ca (in the form of CaHCO3 or whatever) and your digestive
    tract will just conspire to flush it straight out.
    
    Maybe I was thinking of Iron, though I am pretty sure that getting
    enough Calcium can be read hard (especially feeding mums)..
    
    rod (not a dietry specialist, not even a biologist)

         As I understand professional bike racers used to ( and maybe still 
    do ) eat sandwiches which had cheese AND meat in them.  Maybe the new
    carbo bars ( for those who can stand to eat them ) have replaced the
    sandwiches now, but I would assume that oldtime director sportifs knew
    what they were doing.
    
         I have found that proper amounts of fat improves my power AND 
    endurance if I eat it no less than 8 hours of riding.  Maybe such
    an effect is what the commercial was alluding to.
    
         Abe;
                                                 

     Yup, calcium sourced foods are not many... Abe is correct about the
     sandwiches. Then again, you don't really need to worry about fat
     intake (unless it's lacking the right fuels) when you're burning
     11k calories a day!
    
     Sorry Abe, but I can't let this one slide... fat is not a viable power
     source. It's inefficient in the muscles. It does provide endurance
     from a fuel perspective. Had to do it... :-)
    
     Chip

     Quickly, a qualification to my statement... When I use the word
     power, I don't use it synonmous with fuel, e.g. fat & glycogen 
     (sugars)... Wheww!

    
    Abe,
    
    Don't ever think that old DSs knew anything about diet. Even most modern
    ones know little. The problem is that understanding diet is a fairly
    new thing and too many DS use the same tactics that their DS used when
    they were a rider.
    
    As an example, the New Cipollini has said that one of things that he
    cut out to improve his performance was cheese. Riders used to always
    have a glass of red wine for the digestive system. Know only the team
    manager is allowed to get sozzled.
    
    However, I agree with Robin. Unless their are riders in here who are
    trying to reach the top, you need only eat with common sense. Follow
    the basic guidelines that dieticians suggest to everybody rather than
    the specific pro cycling diet.
    
    Graham.

     Graham's correct. There continues to be a curve experienced in
     dietary knowledge.
    
     It is common knowledge, however, that alcohol lowers body temp's
     and interferes with the body's ability to process food through
     its systems. A glass of wine? Probably not... May actually be
     beneficial (as a relaxing property) to help with a good night's
     sleep (for dinner, obviously). More ain't better...

    In my opinion, the RAAM competitors are way ahead of the typical
    European racers in terms of nutrition, even today.

    Re 11K kcal/day remark back a few... even Haldeman only burned
    8K kcal/day during his and Pensereys tandem crossing of the US
    a few years ago, when they were very careful to monitor their
    food usage.  8K/day is amazing!!

    This said, in terms of culinary sophistication, the French are
    probably way ahead of us :-)

    - Jim

     I think you'll find that Euro-racing (particularly long stages)
     does put that demand on them.
    
     Chip

    
    If 11K cal/day was too much, then the pros would be putting on weight.
    Even with that amount of food, they still reckon to lose 2-3kg in a 3
    week stage race.
    
    Graham.

re RAAM dietary habits..

I suppose if I was really dedicated I could get by with the disgusting 
preparations I have read about, but I still think I do this sport for 
enjoyment.  That means the cheese AND the wine ( 1 glass? - how big a 
glass?), AND the pizzas, AND the gratin  etc, etc...

About the only thing I have cut back on in recent years is meat, not through 
any deep conviction about animal welfare you understand, I just found I 
didn't enjoy eating it every day, so it's now probably 4 days out of 7.  The 
last time I was served the so-called "big, juicy steak" I found it pretty 
disgusting.  (Mind you, the moules and chips we had the other day were 
soemthing else...).

    to continue the digression, I have recently restarted my habit of
    having a nice bowl of pasta for breakfast (sometimes with cheese so
    it's slight to do with the topic).  It makes a sizeable impression
    during long days....

    
    I've seen 12-hourers have mince and peas for breakfast...
    
    Graham.

You should have been at the Cavallo Nero in Cuneo before the Coppi, there 
were guys there eating cold rice with olive oil poured over it......

Mince and peas sounds pretty good in comparison!

    
    This is the home of cuisine? I'll never forget being taken to dinner in
    Pontoise NW of Paris by the local bike club and being served a plate
    of tete de veaux... Someone should ban set menus....
    
    Graham.

    One of these days somebody's going to do a study and find out
    that a low mass, one pound bag of peanut M&M's gives athletes
    better performance without the weight penalty of conventional
    carboloading.  At least I hope so, seeing as what I had for
    dinner last night.  ;-)  kb 

    Graham, Chip,
    
         Director Sportifs may not know nutrition but they know their
    riders and how they respond to certain foods.  So...., if they 
    feed their riders some fat then they must know that such a thing
    helps as opposed to hurts the riders performance.
         I onced talked to a person who trained heavily, he flatly
    stated that fat in his diet helped both his power and endurance.
    For me I've that fat helps.  Two of my best rides this year came
    back to back ( 42.4 miles at ~21 MPH over hilly terrain in the wind
    and alone ), the first day I has a big slug of cheesecake at lunch
    and on the second I had some fried chicken wings at lunch ).  My
    take is that for me fat eaten at the proper time helps.
    
       Abe;
    
    

     Sorry, science is stacked (way high against you). Fat is a 
     necessary element in any athlete's diet. For you to make
     a determination that the fat was the reason for a higher 
     level of performance is supplied with no controlled,
     scientific fact.
    
     If, in fact, you do respond to fat that way, you are truely one
     of the extremely rare (and unknown) individuals in the world
     and would definitely draw the interest of all sportiffs and
     and universities of the world.
    
     If we were to believe that fat was considered a primary energy
     source, my guess is that water bootles would be filled with
     Brie, and feed zones would planned, as a part of the race route,
     in drive-thus at MacDonalds, Taco Bell, Wendy's, etc...
    
     Sorry to be so hard, but... No sale!
    
     Chip

Chip,

     Try reading my reply again.  I did not say that fat was my primary
energy source during the rides that I mentioned and I did not speak for
other people.  I have lived in my body for some time and have learned to
read it's responses so I would assume that I know when my performance is
stronger.
     I have seen the effect before where I have ridden more powerfully 
after eating a known fatty food and allowing it to digest fully.
Neither of us has a degree in Physiology and neither of us has done
focused research on how MY body responds to food ( I come the closest by
far ), so please accept my conclusions, I should know, it's ME.


      Abe;

    I like the idea of mints (mince) and Peas (Pnut M&Ms).  Good balance of
    fat and carbs.  Keep it simple.  It's an easy and fun way to munch down
    11K kcal/day, too.
    
    Here in Georgia we drink beer instead of wine, unlike the Europeans. 
    Mainly we use it to wash down the boiled peanuts we use to restore our
    body salts.
    
    ;*)

>         Director Sportifs may not know nutrition but they know their
>    riders and how they respond to certain foods. 
    
    Greg Lemond for one disagrees very strongly with that statement. DS
    know how riders respond to training programmes, they do not know how
    they respond to foods.
    
>    For me I've that fat helps.  Two of my best rides this year came
>    back to back ( 42.4 miles at ~21 MPH over hilly terrain in the wind
>    and alone ), the first day I has a big slug of cheesecake at lunch
>    and on the second I had some fried chicken wings at lunch ).  My
>    take is that for me fat eaten at the proper time helps.
    
    No offence, but as Robin has already stated, we are taking about a
    level far above ours. I would have to say that your ride can't compare
    with a 6 hour 4000m ride by a pro rider. Fat does help. It does contain
    energy. The problem is that that energy is not readily available to the
    body, other energy groups are. As a result, dieticians say that fatty
    foods should not be regarded as a energy source. I remember reading
    somewhere that a pro cyclists energy source should only be 25% fat.
    
    I would suggest that the chicken wings and cheesecake had other
    ingredients other than fat that was helping. Fat takes something like 8
    hours to digest fully. You have it 2 hours before a 2 hour ride, you're
    still digesting when you come back. Also, the energy from fat generally
    goes to the small of your back where it is extremely difficult to
    retrieve. You need that energy in your thighs where you are going to
    use it...
    
    Graham.

    
    
     Sorry Abe (no arrogance intended)... I have read literally a hundred
     articles. The effect you describe is the only one. Also, many, many
     of the people I ride with have complained (myself included) about
     having eaten the wrong=fatty things a day before a race, for
     breakfast, etc... 
    
     I don't need a PhD in nutrition to now the facts here. It's very
     simple. In your case, it's probably more placebo=fatty. Not dis-
     counting the psyche, which is very important... If you think it
     works, carry on. I doubt you'll find anybody that'll support the
     claim however.
    
     Chip
    

    re.
    
    .28, .29
    
         Understand that different people have different metabolisms.  I
    for one cannot eat any of the energy bars that many people find
    ideal.  Well digested ( try reading what I say for once ) works for
    me, this is probaly because at some point during passage from intake 
    to storage fat probaly is in a form similar to what carbohydrates are
    in.  Also, realize that I am not saying that my body fat is involved
    in this, such a thing would be difficult because of the long conversion
    from fat to energy.
          Graham, I see that you can quote LeMond, when it's convenient.
    
     

     I quit...(even after re-reading the notes)
    
     Chip
    
     

    
    Yeah, I'm bowing out before this gets out of hand.
    
    All I will say is that yes, everybody's metabolism is different, but
    they all have to follow the same basic rules...
    
    Graham.