Conference noted::bicycle

    I'm glad the cyclist was all right.

    In my much younger days I was a motorcyclist racer.  I went down on my
    head more than once and was saved by a helmet.  Now days when I ride a
    bike I still wear a helmet even though the bike goes much slower than I
    was used to and went on the motorcycle.

    And having a head injury now from a car accident makes me wear the
    helmet even more.  I don't want it to get any worse than I am already.

    The other thing I learned from my motorcycle days was not to assume the
    car driver was going to do what I thought and to be prepared for the
    worse possible event.  That saved me more than once.  Should have done
    that last April.

    
    Interesting the two points at the end. I don't know if you conciouslly
    put them in any order, but I would argue that they should be reversed.
    Educating motorists is by far the most important objective necessary
    not only to cyclists but all road users.
    
    Graham.

    I don't suppose you got the name of the rider?  Wasn't a digit was it?
    
    That's a great hill for speed, lousy for the curve and traffic.
    It must average over 10% with pieces around 15% and it's about 700ft
    long.
    
    ed

    re .0
    Just out of curiosity, what would you estimate to be the age of the
    driver?
    less than 40?
    40-50?
    50-60?
    older?
    

    Re: .0
    
    	"1. HELMETS SAVE LIVES
	 2. MOTORISTS MUST BE EDUCATED TO CYCLISTS RIGHTS"
    
    I agree with both these lessons, but I'd add a third:
    
    	 3.  CYCLISTS MUST RIDE DEFENSIVELY - One cannot rely on other
    	     users of the public roads to behave courteously, safely, or
    	     lawfully.  One should always be prepared and able to make
    	     an emergency stop, especially when approaching an
    	     intersection, or when a road curves so as to limit forward
    	     visibility.
    
    I was not a witness to this accident, but I question the wisdom of
    cycling down a hill at 35 mph on a curvy road that is "plagued with
    intersections."
    
Lew Lasher

    On this particular hill, establishing yourself in the center of the
    lane and going car-pace can be seen as defensive riding.  You don't 
    have to be concerned with cars overtaking you and cutting in
    front of you for a right-hand turn (as has happened several times to
    me at the intersection at the top of this descent, before I pick up
    speed).
    
    But if you're going to descend with this kind of speed, you constantly
    must be planning "a way out", be it putting on the brakes or taking
    a quick trip into the left lane (if there is no oncoming traffic).  If
    you're depending on anyone but yourself for safety, you're risking a
    lot.
    
    And I never ride without a helmet.  I'm grateful that I never landed on
    my head in my days of racing with a hairnet.
    
    Justin

From the description, it seems as if the driver gave a false indication
that she was going to stop and the cyclist reacted accordingly.  Still, 
as soon as the car even poked its nose out was the time to start braking --
in retrospect.

Even experienced drivers get confused and make strange choices sometimes.
Driving is normally such a routine thing - when something unfamiliar
intrudes on the routine, it's easy to have a delayed reaction (e.g., start
through the intersection too late) or do exactly the wrong thing based on
an incorrect assumption (e.g., that the driver had the right of way and that
the cyclist could stop instantly).  It doesn't excuse the driver's careless-
ness, but it's a fact of life.

Andy

    
    re: .2   I stated the order based upon my personnal reaction.  Clearly
    	     what I saw, and what will remain in my mind forever is the
    	     cyclist's impact on the ground.  Its a lasting image.  
    
    	     Obviously, if motorists were better educated, occurances
    	     such as this would be rarer.
    
    re: .3   I did not get the rider's name and did not recognize him
    	     as a rider out of ZKO.  He was not carrying commuter
    	     gear, was dressed to ride in tights, riding jersey, etc.
    	     No backpack or anything.  
    
    re: .4   I would estimate the woman driver to be in her late 40's
    	     maybe early 50's. The cyclist was mid-30's, seemed tall
     	     and thin with beard.  Black or very dark brown hair and
             beard.
    
    re: .5   I ride that hill most every day I ride, 3 - 4 times a week
    	     and this speed is not uncommon.  I have encountered cars
    	     entering from the same side street.  Making eye contact
    	     with the driver is my usual first step, and I am always
    	     ready to brake or bail out as necessary.  What was going
             through the rider's mind at the time I cannot say.  I only
    	     saw what I saw.  
    
    
    ...Tom

     A friend of mine is the friend of the cyclist and sent me a note
     from the cyclist. He okay... A lot of stitches on various body
     parts (something like 40), bruised, scraped, but nothing broken.
    
     He stated the woman to be 60yrs. old. I believe the cyclist's last
     name is Scales (I don'know him). He pretty much echoed the base
     noter's account of what happened...
    
     Chip

    The driver's reaction ("He wouldn't stop") reminds me of the driver's
    reaction I got in a similar, though less serious, accident in Scotland
    some years ago.

    It was a similar situation: driver waiting at side turning, we made eye
    contact even, but still she pulled out. I couldn't stop in time, hit
    her front wing, and went over the bonnet. Her reaction was "Why didn't
    you stop?", followed by "Why didn't you go round me?". (Going round
    would have meant going in front of her still-moving car...)

    I agree that drivers need to be educated. I'm sure one factor in a lot
    of car-cycle collisions is that many drivers simply don't realise how
    fast some cyclists travel. They assume that we all potter around at
    8mph and can stop on a sixpence. So they pull out into our path
    thinking they will be clear long before we cross their path. And when
    they get it wrong they can't understand that cyclists have a "stopping
    distance" just like cars do.

    -Les.

    
    
    From the Nashua Telegraph 20-Oct-93 (without permission):
    
    	Just after 5 p.m., a Brookline man riding his bike home from work
    crashed into a car at the intersection of Middle Dunstable and Searles
    Roads.
    
    	Lee Lundquist, who witnessed the crash, identified the biker as a
    friend and co-worker, Webb Scales, of Brookline.
    
    	Scales was riding his bike down a hill on Middle Dunstable Road
    when a gray Toyota pulled out from Searles Road.  Lundquist said
    Scales' bike struck the car near the driver's side door, and Scales 
    was thrown off the bike and landed in the street.
    
    	  Lundquist said the driver of the car then drove off the edge of
    the road, landing in some brush at the bottom of a small hill.
    
    	The driver, whose name was unavailable from police, and Scales,
    were transported via Rockingham Ambulance to St. Joseph Hospital.  A
    nursing supervisor there said she could not release the name of the
    woman, but added she was in the intensive care unit in stable
    condition.  The supervisor said Scales was treated and released.
    
    [End of Article]
    
    
    	I looked up Webb in ELF and he is a Digital employee in ZKO.
    
    
    
    ...Tom
    

    The driver is in intensive care?  What's that bike made of?
    
    incredulous,
    ed

    I think her injuries were from her panic blast off the road and down
    into the gully.  I doubt she was wearing a seat belt and most likely
    slammed into the steering wheel and dash.  She might have been in shock
    also.
    
    ...Tom

    	From what the basenoter said she was saying, the whole incident
    	mighta been too much for her to handle. Maybe she had the
    	poop scared outa her. Maybe she has a bad ticker.
    
    	Scott

    Betcha she'll never think that she was ever at fault.
    Betcha she didn't receive any citation either, which she'll think
    as proof she was in the right.

         Here goes a lecture again.  I don't have any betchas to throw out
   , but I do have an opinion.  I am sorry that two people got hurt, but as
    I read the first few lines of the basenote, I was able to guess that the 
    rider was going to get hurt ( even without the title for the note ).  I 
    don't know the cyclist, but I can say that I would not ride with him more 
    than once.
         I have learned that riding a bike is all about having control of
    the bike, the cyclist did not have control of his bike and as far as
    I am concerned this is what caused the accident, the motorist was just
    the catalyst that facilitated it.  I understand that this will not be
    a popular view in this notefile but I have ridden for seven years, have
    raced for five, have been hit by a truck, have crashed headfirst
    without being damaged and have gone down about three or four other
    times - THE ONE thing that I have learned from my experience and
    mis-fortune is that one is better off riding legally and under control
    and having one's attention focused on all potential road hazards.
         I have read all the notes prior to mine and as far as I am
    concerned the noter in .5 came the closest to having it right.  You 
    can school motorists until hell freezes over, but if cyclists ride like
    boneheads, accidents will still occur in large numbers.
         I wish I could have been more pleasant ( I considered not writing
    a note, but I feel too strongly about some of the issues involved here )
    but I cannot in this situation.
    
         Abe;
         
    

    	Wow,
    
    	You think the cyclist was riding like a bonehead?
    	In what way?
    
    	What was the posted speed limit on that strip of road?
    	Was the cyclist speeding? I doubt it...
    
    	The only thing the cyclist did wrong, was assume that the person
    	in the car would give him the right of way.
    
    	That, sir, does not constitute the actions of a bonehead.
    
    	Me thinkst you are being a bit harsh on the man. Besides, after
    	this lovely experience, he'll NEVER assume a motorist will give
    	him the right of way.
    
    	Bonehead? I vote no...
    							2 cents, Face

    Just as a matter of interest, I thought I'd put in my 2 bobs worth, and
    tell you about our situation in New South Wales, Australia's most
    populous state.
    
    It has been some years now since laws were passed, making it compulsory
    to wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle or a pushbike. It has also
    been compulsory to wear seat-belts in motor vehicles for the driver,
    and ALL passengers, including toddlers in child seats, and babies in
    properly designed capsules. In 1982, random breath testing was
    introduced, whereby motorists could be stopped at random on any road
    and breath tested (Previously, only drivers involved in an accident
    were tested).
    
    All these factors combined have been credited with a reduction in our
    road toll, to the extent that last year's numbers were the lowest in
    about 30 years, which is even more impressive when you take into
    account the increase in population and vehicles over that time.
    
    There are people who will disagree with me, but I believe that this
    type of legislation is worthwhile. For those who believe that people
    should have a choice wether they wear a helmet/seatbelt, I would say
    that if they are the only people affected, that's fair enough, but they
    are not. If an unhelmeted rider is injured, they still consume expenses
    in public and/or private hospitals, and occupy beds and facilities
    which are in scarce supply, and probably needed by people who are more
    conscientious in looking after themselves.
    
    Anyway, that's how I (and many others) see it from this neck of the
    woods. :-)
    
    
    		Cheers
    			Rudi.

re .16

Abe, I sympathise with your views, but why do I get the feeling it's 
one-sided....?

Cyclists should ride more carefully.....
Cyclists should be within the law......
Cyclists should wear helmets.....
Cyclists should be aware of others on the road.....
and so on.....

I just feel it's easier to put the blame and the onus for improvement on the 
minority.  It's got to be 2-way to have any effect.

PS what's all this stuff about eye contact?  Most cars have tinted glass 
nowadays and it's pretty well impossible to see inside.  I think you are 
kidding yourself if you think it makes any difference anyway.

     Let me try and help... I think the point that Abe was trying to make
    is that, from the description of what happened, the cyclist could have
    exercised a more "defensive" posture instead of counting on the
    motorist doing the right thing. In this case, stopping and staying put
    until the cyclist went through.
    
     No argument about who's right and who's wrong here. She definitely is
    the bonehead (not the cyclist). Did the cyclist exercise poor judgement
    by continuing to hurtle toward a car/driver that was acting on the
    shakey side? From a common sense position, there is a degree of fault.
    Technically none. 
    
     Personally, if I see a car at an intersection or in some other
    situation that I have the right of way in, but it doesn't look like
    I'm going to get it, I try to react and plan like I won't get it...
    
     Abe, I agree with the noters. I know how passionate you are about 
    discipline on the the road and safety. I think what you're seeing here
    is a reaction to a very pointed (uncompassionate tone) opinion.
    
     Remember, I agree... :-)

    I find it amazing and appalling that the motorist was not cited for
    breaking the relevant traffic laws.  Had it been another car that
    planted itself in her driver door (aside from being dead) the driver
    that pulled out from a sideroad would have definitely been ticketed. 
    Unless traffic laws in that state are different, it is ABSOLUTELY
    against the law to pull out from a sideroad and cause an accident.
    
    This summer on a group ride a parked car opened a door in front of a
    rider, who damaged door, bike and rider in the collision.  The car
    driver complained aggressively and vociferously that the bike, which
    was being ridden (IMO) properly at the right edge of the traffic land,
    should have been on the sidewalk.  A police car was virtually on top of
    the incident, and although he took a report, DID NOT TICKET THE
    AUTOMOBILE.  Same thing again - had it been a car that hit the door
    (aside from separating door from car), the parked vehicle would have
    been ticketed.  
    
    I think both these are perfect examples of how it isn't just motorists
    that need education, its also police agencies.  If they are going to
    insist that bicycles are vehicles subject to traffic laws, and ticket
    riders who ignore stop signs or traffic lights, then they need to be
    equally ready to ticket motorists who break traffic laws and cause
    accidents involving bikes.

	The base noter is a good friend of mine, and when he first posted
	this I didn't know how to reply, because I wanted to pretty much
	say all of the things in all of the replies so far.  I couldn't
	reply at all for fear of seeming so confused.  But the reality
	is, is that there is no avoiding accidents.  It's that probabilistic
	part of collisions and falls that makes us call them accidents,
	rather than some more negative word.
	
	We are all bicyclists as well as drivers, and we all identify with
	our ability to be boneheads when piloting either bike or car.
	And we all take our chances. I've biked down that hill at 30mph+
	myself, and am aware that I'm pushing the safety envelope.

	So I just wanted to say that I agree with everybody.  I am at the
	same time sympathetic and unsympathic to the rider*.  It's a 
	little slice of life that shows us how uncertain things are,
	and how we strive to make order out of chaos.

	Tom

	*And I'm sympathetic and unsympathetic to the driver, who is likely
	ignorant of safety practices as well as common courtesy.  New
	Hampshire has bad drivers and very poor instruction, information
	and testing.  I've lived in 5 states and one province, and  have
	driven in several countries in Europe, and NH is the worst (although
	the south of France might be as bad).  On this matter I am not 
	ambivalent, at least.

	   

    
    Re.21
    
    Well said. Totally agree...
    
    To kill a cyclist whilst your in a car is almost legalised murder in
    the UK. We have recently had cases where in two seperate incidents
    riders were hit from behind by cars in broad daylight and perfect
    visibility. The 1st driver got 240hrs community service (don't know if
    the US has this, so I'll explain. Basically you've got to do some work
    in the community for the determined time. Working with old people,
    handicapped people, working on community upgrading programs like
    building cycle paths <- yeah, I know...). The 2nd driver got fined 200
    quid and told not to do it again! He wasn't even banned from driving.
    In the UK, 12 points on your licence and you're banned for a year. He
    got 6 points on his licence... And they were both sober...
    
    Graham.

how can anyone argue with mr. smith?  this is his opinion and his base views
are even more clearly described in his solicitation for partners four notes
back.   i try to increase my odds of living too; but probably not to that
extreme - probably more like our fallen friend.  -craig 

A friend mentioned that this note was here, so I thought I'd check in.  (Now you
can change your advice/directives from the third to the second person... ;-)

I thought, just for the record, that I would post a copy of the mail that I sent
around last Wednesday morning (from home; today is my first day back at work). 
I apologize in advance if this disturbs the somber tone of the current
discussion... (;-)


------------

G'morning!

I was involved in a little accident at the corner of Lamb Rd. and New Searles
Rd. on my way home last night.  I was coming down the hill on my bicycle at
about the speed limit when a Toyota Corolla came to a stop at the end of New
Searles.  The driver looked to the right (away from me) and then proceded part
way into my lane.  (From here on, I was watching the car, not the driver, so I
can only surmise what she did.)  The car stopped, occupying most of my lane,
so I drifted toward the center of the road, in order to go around it.  At this
point, the car rolled forward, leaving me very little in the way of options.
(Around this point, I closed my eyes, so the details get sketchy... |-))

Apparently, I put my handle bars through her driver-side window.  I bounced
off either the windshield or the roof of the car (the windshield was broken)
and landed on the pavement on the other side of the car.  My feet were in the
toe clips at the point of impact, so I'm sure there was some interesting
phsyics involved.  (;-)

Meanwhile, the woman (apparently totally in shock) proceded across Lamb Rd.
and down the short slope on the other side colliding with a tree.  Somewhere
in all of this, she got her arm broken.  (Apparently she is a 60 year old.)

I opened my eyes shortly after coming to rest on the pavement.  I had the
breath thoroughly knocked out of me, and my only interest was replacing the
air in my lungs.  At that moment, there seemed to be nothing seriously wrong
with me, so I rolled over into a better position and calmed down.

Lying in the middle of the road (leaking blood) in the middle of rush-hour is
an excellent way to draw attention.  Seemingly within seconds, there were
several people with me, including a friend from work.  One guy was an off-duty
policeman, another was an off-duty EMT, and a third had a car phone.  (Y'know,
there is alot to be said for car phones... :-)

A couple of seconds later, the first of the Nashua firemen arrived.  Shortly
after that there were lots of firemen, policemen, two ambulances, and so
forth.  They put me in a neck brace, slid me onto a back board, and whisked me
off to St. Joseph's.

Having got my breath back, and taken stock of things, repeatedly, at the
insistance of a sequence of police, paramedics, and medical personel (;-), I
determined that I was only moderately damaged.  My right forearm had taken the
brunt of the initial impact (with the car, I presume), and it hurt the most.
Apparently my left leg had had a bad time coming out of the toe clip, because
the shoe flew off, the big toe and heel were banged, and the shin was badly
cut.

So, once at the hospital, after the preamble of who-was-I and
where-did-it-hurt, I rolled off to get Xrays.  The answer was, nothing was
broken (which is amazing overal, but was hardly a surprise at that point;
nevertheless, my right arm was pretty incapacitated).  After more probing, the
doctor became concerned about my spleen.  So, we rustled up the CAT-scan guys
(by now it was almost five hours after the accident) and did one of those.  It
was also negative, so we set about cleaning and patching me up.

I came away with five stiches on my nose, where my glasses got banged into my
face, and five stiches on my arm, where I think I hit the car, and 21 in my
shin, where I failed to exit the peddal gracefully.  (Not to mention a
goose-egg on my right eyebrow, and about 100 smaller abrasions, lacerations,
and the odd contusion. ;-)

I'm actually in remarkably good shape.  I don't have much use of my right
hand, thanks to the forearm bruse, but I've got just enough so I can type
(which will probably be good threrapy).  My main complaint is that I've got a
muscle in my upper back which is in almost constant spasm.  This has me
largely incapacitated, otherwise I'd be shuffling around work, wearing my
"living-dead" costume.  I've got both ibuprofin (800mg...) and a nice
narcotic, so I should be able to get by.  The IBU dulls the muscle problem
fairly well, but, if I have to resort to the big-gun, I won't be able to
drive, so I think I'll hang out at home for a day or two.

I really am incredibly blessed, considering what-all could have happened,
however, I'm not really looking forward to my next shower, when I get to count
each scratch...  ;-)


                                Webb

------------


By way of an update, I'm healing fairly quickly.  At first, it literally took an
hour to dab bacitracin on all of the cuts (although the shower was not nearly as
bad as I expected :-).  (Apparently I landed in a pile of broken glass, which, I
think now, came from the drivers-side side-view mirror, the housing for which
was found beside me.)  Now I'm down to a goodly scrape on my left shin and a
couple of "divots" (the ER doc's term) on the fingers of my right hand which
require daily doses.  (Bacitracin is amazing stuff, I highly recommend it.)  My
right arm is fine as long as I don't suddenly move my wrist or lift anything
with it, as there's a deep muscle-bruise in my triceps, but that is gradually
improving.  My back is coming under control, with the application of
muscle-relaxants and anti-inflamatories, and the other miscellaneous aches and
stiffnesses are fading.  Unfortunately, the goose-egg above my eye drained into
my eye-lid giving me an awesome shiner, but that is starting to fade now as
well.  So, I'm able enough to be sitting at my machine in ZK, today.

I'm not going to try to argue with the previous replies.  (However, I can't help
but respond to them... ;-)  

Admittedly, I didn't actually see the accident, so I can't say for sure, but I
don't think the helmet saved my life.  What saved my life was the fact that the
car was no bigger than my bicycle:  I ride a 29" frame, and that meant that my
body was high enough to pass (almost) cleanly over the car.  If it had been a
mini-van or a truck, I'd probably be dead, pancaked against the side; instead I
did a nice tuck-and-roll across the roof and ended up just rather banged-up.

I can't imagine how things must have been for the woman in the car.  The
policeman filing the report said that it would indicate that she had failed to
yield.  However, he was unsure whether they would cite her for it.  He said that
they usually didn't issue citation in cases such as this, and he would be
discussing it with his supervisor.  If I thought that issuing her a citation
would significantly improve my situation and would really make the roads safer
for cyclists, I would applaud it.  However, if the accident put her into the ICU
(there is some indication that she suffered a post-tramatic stroke), then she
has enough to worry about without being cited.  And, I certainly expect that she
will foot the bill for new biking duds for me (at least...), which will cost her
far more than the citation.

Speaking of biking duds, I'm not the only one who came through with only minimal
damage!  I picked up my bike from the Police evidence storage the day before
yesterday.  That was the first I'd seen it since just before the impact (as it
remained on the other side of the car, and the paramedics had a cervical collar
on me before I could look around ;-).  It actually looked ok!  The front wheel
was a little out of true (OK, it's probably trash...but it might not be) and the
handle bars (and everything attached to them) are slightly bent and a little
beat up, but it looks like I might be able to restore everything to working
condition (unless the defendant buys be a new one...).

Riding that hill requires some interesting compromises.  If you ride it much
slower than I was, then the traffic tends to try to get around you (which leads
to various significant problems, e.g., most of it will then try to make a
right-hand turn in front of you if it doesn't force you off the side, first). 
On the other hand, if you ride it at speed, then it is extremely difficult to
stop for the New Searles intersection, given the incline and your momentum.  I
can't say now which way to trade, having tried them both and been unhappy on
occasions with each.


Anyway, I won't be trying it again until I get new tights and top (paramedics
just love to shread clothing ;-) and, as I said, until I get a new helmet.


				Webb Scales

    	Webb,
    
    	Glad you're well enough to walk, talk, type, etc.
    
    	May I ask, "How tall are you?" I assume you know what you're
    	talking about when you say 29'' frame. I'm 6'6'' and ride a
    	25'' so I'm more than a little curious.
    
    	Lamb Rd is quite a rush.
    
    	Scott

    
    Glad to see that you're OK. Not trying to pressurise you into talking
    the incident further, but if I had been in your position, I would
    undoubtedly have made sure that the police took her to court. Not for
    any personal gain and not to "get her back", but because I don't
    believe that she is the only driver out there who would have done it.
    Taking her to court helps warn other drivers of the dangers involved...
    
    Having said that, if US courts are anything like the UKs, then it'll
    take 3 years to get to court, be presided by some perverted old man
    (alledgedly) who acts as a judge that has no understanding of any
    phenomenen that was created this century and she'll only get her
    fingers slapped and told to be more careful next time...
    
    Graham.

re: .26

Ah, so it is Webb that I have encountered in the ZK2 locker room, and his
bike at the nearby bike rack.  He is _very_ tall and that bike is huge.
I'm 6`6", and sitting on his bike would have me in serious pain very
quickly.

Andy

    Glad to hear you are ambulating!  Check the frame near the head tube
    intersections for hairline fractures.
    
    When I have those problems (back/neck spasms) I drop in on my favorite
    physical therapist before she comes home from work.  :-)
    
    ed

    	Yeah, every time I ask my wife (a nurse) to diagnose something,
    	she says, "Go see a doctor." Well, that's not much help.
    
    	Scott

Thanks for the good wishes.  I appreciate it.  I too am very glad to be in such
good shape, considering the other likely results...

How tall am I?  Why, I'm 5'20"...  (That's 6'8", for those of you who don't
tolerate improper fractions. ;-)

.27> if I had been in your position, I would undoubtedly have made sure that the 
.27> police took her to court.  [...]  Taking her to court helps warn other 
.27> drivers of the dangers involved...

I'm afraid that I'm kinda cynical:  I don't think that having the police issue a
citation to her would have much impact on other drivers.  Furthermore, I don't
believe she had any intent to cause me harm, and, without intent, I don't think
the State could make a more spectacular charge (i.e., one that might have an
impact on other drivers) stick.  Regardless, she'll be hearing from my lawyer,
and I think that the resulting suit or settlement should be sufficient.


				Webb

    If I was defending her in court, I'd make sure to point out that she
    WASN'T issued a ticket.
    

     The ticket would be irrelavent in a civil case. Criminal vs.
    civil run on two systems. A person can be found not guilty
    of criminal wrong-doing and still lose a civil suit.
    
     Personally, if I were representing her "civilly" I'd suggest
    something out of court or not represent her.
    
     I don't know all of the facts, but a ticket can still be issued
    after the investigation.
    
     Chip

    I realized I'm getting into this discussion a bit late, but I can't help 
    but add my opinion.  Had I been involved in the accident, I would have 
    pushed VERY hard to make sure she was given a citation.  A few more
    people would sit up and take notice the next time they see a bike.
    Even if it's for the wrong reason ("Oh the poor dear got hurt AND they
    gave her a ticket on top of that!  We have to watch out for those dangerous
    bicycles!")
    
    I was involved in an accident 2 years ago.  An elderly women left turned
    into me as I was crusing along at 25mph on my Merckx.  I was alert,
    LOOKING AT HER STRAIGHT IN THE EYE, my hands on the brakes, and she did
    exactly what I though she might do - proceeded "through" me to get to
    a parking lot!  I had time to brake and unclip before impact, and even
    managed to escape unscathed - my bike however was hosed.  Bent fork,
    both wheels trashed and some other misc stuff.  Her "friend" came over
    from across the street and started to lecture me - according to her,
    that road had way too much traffic and I should NOT have been riding
    there.  We all had a nice chat, me with smoke coming out of my ears,
    the women that hit me quiet and confused, her friend who eventually
    offered to pay for the damage to my bike and several other people that
    shared the opinion that bikes didn't belong on the roads.  At this point, 
    getting my bike fixed was all I really wanted, so like a fool, I agreed
    to take a check.  
    
    I was given a ride to a local bike shop, got an estimate, back to the 
    scene, she gave me a check, then a young dude that worked with all these 
    folks gave me a ride to a friends house.  As we unloaded my bike, he told 
    me that this was her SECOND accident in a week.......she is supposed to 
    wear glasses but never does!
    
    This women truly is an accident waiting to happen - again.  By not
    forcing the issue, I may have contributed to someone else falling
    victim to her reckless driving.  
                                                               
    

     Well, it's finally happened. Weld has signed the mandatory -12 yrs.
     for children wearing them. 
    
     Everything I've read to date stated that Weld was not in favor of
     signing the bill. He felt that it isn't government's responsibility
     to regulate a child's behavior. I agree, but I also "rabidly" support
     the wearing of helmet at all ages.
    
     One thing that does piss me off is that they just spent a substantial
     sum of money to do this, but the bill has no teeth, e.g. no fines,
     probations, etc... Stupid! Behaviors without consequence will always
     continue. It's simply human nature.
    
     Discuss....     

    When [I think it was] Georgia attempted to pass this legislation
    several bike activist group several pro cycling groups got
    involved to *oppose* the legislation.  The reasoning was something like
    this:
    
    The "Safe Kids" group presented images of brain damaged kids and
    didn't give a rodent's behind* about cycling or anything else
    just putting helmets on kids.  The pro cycling groups contended
    that the legislation by itself was addressing the problem from the
    wrong direction.  Education, such as "safe cycling" was as important.
    
    Numerous other points were cited, a compromise was reached.
    
    And, no I don't remember the outcome.  I think things were
    postponed for a year or two.
    
    ed
    
    -------------------
    "Rodent's behind" is a politically correct term as I learned it
    in a meeting with NH's Secretary of Transportation.  (Yes, he
    used the term :-) )

 The law did pass in Georgia, went into effect this past summer. The 
police can do nothing but issue warnings, violations carry no fines. My 
club worked against passage and for EDUCATION to no avail. No legislator 
wants to be listed as voting against the law and risk being viewed as 
anti-child. No compromises were reached, and no legislator was smart 
enough to include any training programs.


Joe

    I guess training costs money, but passing laws comes for free :-(

     Passing laws are extremely expensive and we foot the bill. Also,
     this stuff is fertile ground for the medical community to falsely
     justify the rising health care costs - which we're also on the
     hook for! 
    
     No where to run or hide...

I think Graham's point was that passing the law and setting the penalties is 
easy.  It's catching people and making it stick that is more difficult.  
France has supposedly a very tough driving test, and horrendous penalties for 
all sorts of traffic offences - but very few people get caught, let alone 
punished, so the Law is completely toothless.  The other trick is to pick on 
a minority group with no power so you can get the law through with little 
opposition, the "permit a points" is a case in point where the truckies 
brought France to a standstill in a couple of days.

There's nothing like radical action to make your point however, you can have 
petitions, and protest marches ad infinitum - what people understand is a ton 
of spuds on the front steps of the Mairie or maybe a herd of cows in the 
House of Commons.  I suggest burning of old tubs and HP's in M Mitterand's 
front garden and tipping what you end up with after cleaning out your chain 
through his letterbox.....

yours truly, A N Archist.

    This was originally in "The Wall Street Journal", reprinted in the
    12/93 BMW CCA magazine "Roundel"... I thought it was interesting
    in the context of the accident in .0
    
    "As the age of the driver increases, failure to yield the right
    of way becomes the most frequently cited driver error in fatal
    accidents.  That explains why so many crashes involving the elderly
    are at right angles.  And they don't fare well when their cars
    are T-boned; a 1983 SAE study found that at speeds below 33mph,
    85% of those over 60 died in side-impact crashes, while no one
    under 40 died."  KB  

    re .41
    
    I've thought that the "failure to yield" problem must come from people
    getting the old courtesy of "Respect your elders" mixed up with who has
    the right of way.
    
    Rich

    In Massachusetts, you have the right of way if your father did, so we
    must just have too many people claiming that right.
    
    :-)
    
    ed

Yeah, but they don't tell you that your father had to have had it in
Massachusetts and at the same intersection.

    once, somewhere is enough!
    
    ed

     I received a memorable moment for my 40th birthday last Friday, my
     1st accident on bicycle with a car.  When a car passes you and makes
     an immediate right turn onto a side road, leaving you no escape, then 
     your helmet comes in handy.

     I managed to escape with road rash on my right arm & shoulder, an
     extremely sore right gluteus, helmet cracked on the right rear,
     stiff neck, headaches for 2 days, sore ligamants & tendons *everywhere*.
     The body is healing but the mind will take a while.

     Wear your helmet and urge others to do so !

    
    	Did the driver stop?
    

Don't let the driver get away with anything. 

Can you give us more painful details about the event?
                     ^^^^^^^

Chip

    
    Dave, good to hear that you are well enough to tell us about it. 
    I've had one of those experiences, in my case I was not wearing a 
    helmet, flew over someones fence and fell on my head on their lawn.
    agree with you about the helmet thingy...
    
    Shaw

    The driver stopped her grey Saab, 2 other cars stopped and asked if I
    was OK.  After checking out the oozing, bloody arm and moving my legs,
    I thought 'no broken bones', mostly a very sore derriere.  I asked the
    driver if she even saw me and her answer was the expected, 'no'.  She
    acted concerned, but did not offer any assistance after I told her that
    I thought I was OK (numbed/shocked/dazed mode).
    
    My bike appeared scratched and the chain was off.  Luckily I was only 10 
    minutes from home but it took me 30 minutes to get there in my sore state.  
    When I arrived home, my brain started computing again and the pain was
    intense.  So I called 911.  For my birthday, 4 fireman and a firetruck
    came to my home to wish me the best and check for broken bones.  Then
    they sent a policeman to my home to file the accident report.  
    
    Immediately after the accident, while lying in the road, I had read the 
    driver's license plate and recited it the the entire ride home.  This 
    information enabled the police to identify the driver and her address.  
    After hearing my description of what happened, he visited 'Ms. Guilty' and 
    gave her a ticket, then called me with her insurance information.  She 
    called later that day to see how I was doing and to let me know that her 
    insurance company would pay for damages.
    
    I took my bike into the shop and they estimate $150 damage (rear
    derailleur & hanger, both tires ripped on the sidewalls, saddle torn)
    plus my replacement helmet cost will be $30.  The physical & mental pain 
    costs will probably not enter the picture.
    
    I have replayed the accident in my mind many times trying to think of a
    way that I might have avoided the accident, but I cannot figure anything 
    short of a laser blaster to clear my way.  Maybe I should re-read the
    Spike Bike columns for some ideas.

    I've had that (drivers passing you then turning right) happen many
    times... basically you have to keep an eye on their front wheels
    as they go by (they'll be the first indication of a turn) and always
    stay on the brake hoods in traffic (don't use handlebar extensions
    unless the brakes are up there too).  I had one recently that did it, 
    right after leaving church; apparently leaving it to the dashboard
    Jesus to do the driving.
    
    Hopefully you left her Saab with a few choice scratches.
    Kratz  

    
    	You have to wonder how someone can drive right by you and not
    	even see you.
    
    	It would be ALMOST understandable if she'd been coming towards
    	you and turned left in front of you, forcing you to ride right
    	into the front/passenger side of the car.
    

There is always the option of small claims court for pain
and suffering. While the recovery damages are limited, it's
a simple and cheap process to do.

IMHO, brake extensions should be avoided at all costs for
all the obvious reasons. Just a little editorial.

I've been lucky with traffic (crossed fingers). Lots of 
close calls, but no contact. Plenty of crashes in races
and in the woods, however.

Chip

    I am amused and disappointed that her answer to the did you see me
    question was no.  After all, to reply yes, would be an admission to
    guilt and likely open the door to further legal action.   Its a jungle
    out there....
    
    
    ...Tom

    On Monday I mailed my cracked helmet back to Bell with a letter describing 
    the incident.  A nice lady from Bell called today to see how I was feeling 
    and to ask me if I would participate in a survey.  I was glad to oblige.
    I also agreed to participate in a U of CA study that is working to improve 
    helmets.  The replacement helmet in a flashy gold color is on its way
    and the bike will be repaired by the end of next week.  
    
    Even though the bike shop (snobs !) made funny faces at my Huffy, I plan 
    on showing them photos in Greg Lemond's book - he is shown riding on the 
    same frame and fork!  Maybe that was his secret to success...

    Hmmm... Huffy brakes are probably nothing to write home about.
    Some brake upgrades might be in order if you intend to ride in
    traffic.  You should be able to almost lock up the front wheel
    and definitely lock up the rear in a panic stop (altho try not
    to lock up the rear; it's a great way of pissing away hundreds
    of miles of otherwise useful tread life).  Can the Huffy do this?
    Kratz

uhhh, Dave... Greg's bike may have had Huffy decals on it, but be rest
assured it was no Huffy.

Chip

    I ingloriously laid down one of my Trek 1200's the other day on
    a high speed turn and proceeded to scrape the "Special" part
    of "Specialized" off the helmet as I slid along the pavement
    upside down my head for about 10-15 feet.  As time seemed to go
    by in slow motion during the slide, I couldn't help but think how
    nice and comfortable these things are when called upon.
    
    So much for a nice Wheelsmith-built rear Mavic Reflex tho.
    Kratz

    Yipes !  Glad to hear that you survived to report the incident. 
    Imagine what it would have been like without a helmet.  I still cringe
    when I see bicyclists or motorcyclists riding sans helmet.  The weekly 
    death toll keeps climbing...
    
    Regarding that Huffy frame, I called Huffy and based on the model #
    they identified it as a Huffy manufactured 'Elite Racing Frame' that 
    was endorsed by Greg Lemond.  He must have received a few dollars for 
    that !  His book has lots of photos of him riding this 4130 chromoly frame.
    
    Regarding the brakes, they work as well as the new bikes I have been
    test riding.