Conference noted::bicycle

    I can't speak for international, but I went with Belmont Wheelworks,
    and found them to be very knowledgeable and very helpful, and they have
    a pretty good selection.
    
    -Jesse

    
    That's a pretty good price range ($500-$850 US). I would check out the 
    past couple of issues of Bicycling and Moutain Bike Action, and then
    consider getting something like a Specialized Rockhopper FSR  or 
    other entry level bike with suspended fork. There are about a half
    dozen excellent quality bikes in the $700 range with front suspension.
    
    doug
     

    
    
    and one more thing... you might look for a closeout 92 model for
    $550-600 and put on the suspension fork of your choice.
    
    
    doug 
    

    
    Not that this should be a determining factor in your decision but...
    
    Given all the attention to trade deficits and unemployment
    rates lately, perhaps you should consider the country of origin
    when deciding on what brand bike you purchase.
    
    Trek manufactures some pretty decent mountain bikes. As far as I
    know all their frames are manufactured in the U.S. I believe most
    of their Rims are also domestically manufactured. Besides, I'm
    partial to lugged frames (in their steel bikes), I think they
    look a lot nicer than the unseemly welds showing up in the majority
    of mountain bikes these days. TREKS might be a bit heavier than
    comparable imported bikes, but a few ounces aren't gonna make a
    difference for the vast majority of riders.
    
    If we don't support the U.S. bike industry, there won't be one!

    I think 950 and up are US made, but below that are Taiwanese.
    
    -Jesse

  >  I think 950 and up are US made, but below that are Taiwanese.
    
    Jesse is correct. Only there High end trek is made in the USA. Most of 
    there bikes below ~750 are assembled oversea. But they are a USA company.

    The only mass production bike company that makes their WHOLE line of 
    bikes in USA that I know of is Cannondale. So smaller companies such at 
    Klein, Serrotta etc.. are also made in the US. But most of the components
    are still made overseas.

    I think Raleigh USA all makes their Technium frame in the US. 

    Dave
 

    Buying a US made bike does seem like the right thing to do, especially
    if you have up to $850 to spend.   Some of the earlier notes point to
    suspension as a must, but I (being old-fashioned) would probably opt
    for getting the most frame I could at the beginning, and then upgrading
    the components as they are violently torn from your stout US frame.
    If you find that you *must* have a suspension, then you have delayed
    a piece of the investment, to a later time (when your spouse won't
    notice!).  I still believe that, unless you are racing, and spend more
    than $300 on the forks, that it's probably not worth carring the extra
    weight of a suspension up all those hills. -just my opinion-
    
    So, since you were waiting for the punch-line....  Fat City is a custom
    US manufacturer (in Mass), has really clean fillet brazed welds, and
    a great geometry.  You might be able to pick up a Monster Fat for your
    $850 if you look around.  (there goes Woodbury again, plugging the
    Fat...)
    
    mark

    There has been alot of mention here of suspention, but non of how
    you ride. If you are not planning to be banging up and down mountain
    trails, you may not need all that expencive susspention.
    
    As the last noter stated, I would go for the best frame, and add
    the goodies later, as the need arises.
    
    Also, to my mind, there is only one way to by a bike ... ride it.
    Don't try to ride every bike in the shop, you'll drive yourself
    nuts. Pick a few that are in the price range you like, and ride
    them. Not just in the parking lot, see if the shop will let you
    take it for an trip around the block or further (some shops don't
    relish that idea much...but try). When you find a bike that feels
    good...bye it. Nothing is worse than a bike with all the bells and
    whistles, that sits in the garage because its to uncomfortable to
    ride.
    
    
    But I'd never make a mistake like that !!!!!

    
    
    Just as an FYI....
    
    International Bicycle centers is having a sale from March 26
    through April 4. The ad in the Globe says all 92 and 93 bikes
    are 10-30% off.
    
    I called about a TREK 970 mtn bike. List is $900, it's on sale
    for $800 and you get an additional $65 worth of accessories.
    
    The TREK 7900, (Carbon Fiber Hybrid) is listed at $1000 and is
    on sale for $650.
    
    Seems like some pretty good prices

nashbar and belmont wheelworks are also having sales. (nashbar is selling conti
sprinters for $25 and the prices on time pedals are...IN-SANE

    
    Well, after spending two and half days of trail bashing and diving
    in mud (not itentionally ;-) ) and semi fast downhills, I have come
    to the conclusion that I need front suspension. 
    
    I thought of upgrading my existing bike, but that only last two seconds
    the minute I reminded myself that the complete bike ways 28 lbs. and
    the shocks will add on a couple of pounds. So I went looking. 
    I came across a couple of options, both KHS bikes. Except from the 
    adds and in magazines I had never seen a KHS before. Beautiful light
    frame bikes. 
    My two choices are :
    KHS Montana PRO FZ:  components are XT/XTR combo. with Bontrager rims
    and saddle (titanium railing), Mag 20 Rock Shox the complete bike 
    weight at 24.9 (this is with the shoxs) only 22.9 without suspension.
    The asking price $1400 including the Shox, this is the listed price
    without shox.
    
    KHS PRO: components XT/DX mix with XTR shifters, Bontrager rims and
    190 g. saddles. including shox price is $1100 weigth 25.9 with shoxs.
    both bikes have smoke lite /dart tyers. 
    
    Has anyone had any experience with KHS? what other options do I have
    at the above price range?
    
    Thanks for any tips,
    
    Shaw
    
    

    
    
    
    I would think that you have a rather LARGE choice in the  >$1000 range. 
    Probably every bike manufacturer going has a $1000-$1400 suspension
    bike. I have no experience with ANY of them. Lastly, if I were spending
    $1000+ on a new suspended bike, I'd want the Rock Shox Mag 21 rather
    than the older Mag 20. You might want to get Bicycling's buyers guide
    and check it out . 
    
    
    

    
    Doug, I also have the option of Maniteau 2 for the shocks, not being
    experience with either, the Maniteau seems to be maintainance free
    as compared to the Rock Shox. but what are the major diffs between
    Mag 20 and 21.
    In the above price range, I have not seen many bikes that come with 
    XTR or XT and with front suspension weight under 25 lbs. 
    But i will check te byers guide.  It is just that I had and oportunity
    to check the frame work on the KHS and it is very clean. 
    What are my other options in that range, with bike available in this
    area (NE), aside from cannondales.  The only other two makes that I have
    actually seen are Raliegh and Cannondales and the KHS were better than
    those. 
    
    Shaw

Shaw, 

Check out a Klein! 

Dave

    Might as well add an Offroad 853 to your list. I'm very happy with
    mine.
    
    Paul

    
    Hi I checked the buyers guide last night and in the that price range
    $1100 - 1400.00 there were no other bikes that weighed as little as 
    the KHS, and had XTR/XT components with such nice rims etc. 
    I would like to check Kleins, Fat City and  Off road, all these three
    are priced higher and come with lesser componentry. ie DX/LX 
    However if anyone has a clue of where in S.NH or MA. within reasonable
    travel distance, I would like to go check them out. 
    BTW the KHS has Tioga revolver cranks, (any opinions?)
    
    I might add that I still love my IBOC PRO, but I just have my mind 
    set on a ligher bike with supension. 
    
    Shaw

I think you have to go into Cambridge area for the FAT City and Klein. You
might want to call up the Manufactures and they could probably direct you to the
nearest dealer. You will have to pay more or a custom fitted Klein, Serrotta, 
etc...

But that is why they call it CUSTOM :-)

Happy Hunting

Nault & Sons in Concord (& Manchester?) NH carry Klein frames.  If you
go to the Concord store ask for Geo, he seems to be a decent sort and
rides a Klein Rascal.

The owner of Pedaling Fool in Hillsboro rides Fat City, but hasn't had any
on the floor when I've been there.  He does have the nice Marin `93 lineup
(nice & light as well as great paint jobs, IMHO).

KHS...loved `em as I shopped this spring but ended up with a `92 C'dale M500
leftover that I'm real happy with so far.  The KHS frames look nicely done.
Have you been to Ultra Sport in Manchester?  They're a KHS dealer and very
willing to build it your way according to the manager there.

Greg

Almost forgot...Tony's Cyclery in Nashua/Amherst may carry Off-Road.  They
(Off-Road) seem to have a very good rep in suspension bikes, well worth
looking at.

One last thought...how about the Specialized M2 suspension model...haven't ridden
one but it also appears to be one well-integrated suspension bike.

Have fun...

Greg

    
    Well, Paul tipped me on Tony's and the offroad, which I will check
    I do occassional hanging out in Cambridge so I will check that to.
    
    As for Cannondale, no thanks ;-) I just went out at my lunch brake 
    and checked the C-dale Delata V 1500. Sure is *ugly* it has inferior
    components compared to the KHS PRO FZ, I am not sure about the fork
    it doesn't look that versatile as compared to MAG 21 on the KHS.
    It also weighs about 2 lbs more than the KHS. 
    
    Shaw

I don't know if I would spend $1500 on a C-dale either. But at the $850 (M700)
and the <$1100 (Delta V700), they are good bikes for the Money. I ride a M700
and I don't think there are many bikes under 26 pounds at that price range. 
My friend like his C-dale V700 because of 2 reasons.

  1. Adjustable while you are riding. 
  2. They are a single components under the headset which prevent flexing.

C-dale are a love and hate bike because of there Looks, Aluminium, Paint Job,
Different brake system or whatever.

It's a personal opinion and I dolike mine.

 

The C'dale "V"'s are different looking, aren't they.  Not a thing of beauty in
my eyes, but beauty is subjective to say the least!

Their suspension fork seems to be getting lots of good reviews, but you can only
get it on their frame with that huge head tube.

How's about the AMP fork...light, rigid, (expensive?).  I've seen a number of
second-time suspension buyers going to the AMP fork...maybe they've learned something,
maybe not.

I'm not trying to sway you from the KHS w/Mag 21s...it looks like a great package
with a good price, but...have you tried the Specialized M2?

I'll be quiet now	>;^}

Greg

    
    The Specialized and the V700 C-dale have Deore LX, which I don't like.
    I think if I'm spending more than $1000, I can expect a little better
    than that. 
    I saw a Serrota MTB at Buchikas with Manitue suspension for 
    $1800 plus the least I would expect is the XT 8 speed. which it didn't
    have. 
    In the same price range as the V700, KHS has the Montana PRO which 
    comes with XT/DX combo and XTR shifters at 23.9 LBS without shocks
    add 2 lbs for the MAG 21. 
    
    Shaw

I bought a KHS Montana Summit last year and I love it.  It's not at all
near the price range you're in (I think I only paid ~$400 for it).  It
has last years Deore LX and has held up great.  This includes a few 
trips to Mt Snow and Killington.  I like jumps and have come down hard on
it, (not always upright either), and nothing has been damaged on it at all.
I've probably only put about 500 miles on it since I've gotten it, but
98% of these were off road.  I love it, but I really don't have anything
else to compare it to either.  If I'm not mistaken last years downhill 
champion rode a KHS.

                                      Cheers - Ed

    
    Ed, thanks I needed that. I loved the frame on the KHS right away 
    but was not certain of their strenght. However, you are right
    both men and women downhill Slalom races were won on KHS. Not 
    that that necessarily proves anything. Give John Tomac a Univega
    and I'll bet he will still blow away 99% of the racers. 
    
    Shaw

    If you can justify the extra bucks go for the Klein Rascal.  My 20"
    frame is equipped with XT, MAG 20's (painted to match) Flight saddle,
    SPD and some ti.  The weight is sub 26lbs. without bottles, pump and 
    tool bag.  It climbs like a goat, eats up technical single track
    and at 40+ down fire roads it is rock solid.  The frame is guareteed 
    for life and, in my opinion, there is not a better looking bike on
    the market.
    
    
    Kevin

    
    re;-1 and Greg, 
    
    I just talked to Geo on the phone, re: Klein Rascal. He will have to
    check with the Manchester store for a 17". They have the 19".
    My current bike is 18" and my inseam is 31" so I think I'll be
    happier with the 17" especially with downhill in mind. 
    Geo said that the XTR will cost me more than $1500 but XT will 
    be around that. I have no problem with XT.
    He also recommended a Specialized around $1300. He is supposed to
    call me back before end of day today. 
    I am going to Cambridge tonight, I hope the bike shops are open 
    late on Friday so that I can aslo check out the Fat City bikes. 
    Geo also mentioned problems with the seals on the Rock shox, but 
    I think that was only last years 20s not the 21s. 
    
    Have a nice pedaling weekend everyone, and thanks for all the good
    input. 
    
    Shaw

    
    I've also been looking around for bikes. Can you folks give me your
    opinions of GT and Marin bikes?
    
    Bob

    All I've heard of GT is that folks seem to think they're a little heavy
    and they seem to skimp on componentry a little.
    
    -jesse

    I thought the GT bikes were sort of on the light side for hybrids, like
    26-27lbs. The Marin's are in even a lighter range, but boy do you pay 
    for it. 
    
    I was told that the componentry was one of the key selling points of
    the GT's and Marins. 
    
    Being new with this stuff can someone tell me what's the difference
    between Altus A10, Shimano 400cx and 500cx components and what class
    they are in like low end mid or high end?
    
    Bob 

    
    
    	Numbers and letters, Shimano seems to be switching some of there
    naming conventions around on their low components.
    
    	Hybrid/Commuter			ATB
    	---------------			---
    	C10	lowest			A10
    	C20				A20
    	?				?
    	400cx				there used to be 200,300,400 levels
    	500cx				Deore LX
    	I don't know if these 		Deore DX
    	go any higher			  "   XT
    					Deore XTR
    					the 200, 300, 400 were Exage which
    					I now believe is LT, DT, ?
    
    	mart

    C20 is lower than C10, and A20 is lower than A10.  Lower meaning less
    expensive.  C10 and C20 are used on lower end MTBs and Hybrids.  the
    biggest difference in the groups is the crank.  Any of these deraileurs
    will work on either a Hybrid, MTB, or Road bike for that matter,
    including the 400CX and 500CX which are used exclusively on Hybrids.
    
    Tourney is still the lowest Shimano deraileur.
    
    Dave

    
    I have a friend in Canada who is looking at two bikes, same price.
    A Rocky Mountain with Deore DX components and a local custom mfg frame
    named Eclipse (Quebec) with STX components.
    
    Has anyone ever heard of Eclipse?  Which set is better quality DX or
    STX?
    
    Thanks for any help,
    Jim

    
    
    Jim, I think Shimano stopped the Deore DX a while back. My older 
         mountain bike (1992) has the Deore DX components and I swear 
         by it. I have never ever had a problem with it. Aside from 
         occassional cleaning and lub. I have never had to do anything
         to it. This bike has been through many a fast downhill, climbed
         rocks been through mud, you name it. 
    
    Shaw

    Rocky Mountain makes nice bikes.  I assume the DX bike is either
    building up a new frame with an old parts lot, or 1993 model.  DX
    usually came with thumb shifters, old by today's twist grip, rapid-fire
    plus, etc.  If it is a 7 speed cluster, this is easily upgradable.  
    
    STX is ok stuff, except for the crankset.  Made of steel chainrings
    (heavy) and seems to have a serious problem of chain suck (chain
    dropping between frame and small chainring.  
    
    You should probably ride both, off road if possible, and see which bike
    you like the handling the best.  Another option is to request crank
    upgrade on the STX bike, if you do ask for one with a 22 tooth small
    chainring, provided it is hilly where you live. 
    
    steve

     re .-1
    
>    STX is ok stuff, except for the crankset.  Made of steel chainrings
>    (heavy) and seems to have a serious problem of chain suck (chain
>    dropping between frame and small chainring.  
    
     Chain-suck?  I've got 6 months on my STX-equipped Univega and have
     never had such a problem.  The steel rings aren't as esthetically pleasing
     as alloy - but I can't really see the weight difference as significant.
    
>    You should probably ride both, off road if possible, and see which bike
>    you like the handling the best.  Another option is to request crank
>    upgrade on the STX bike, if you do ask for one with a 22 tooth small
>    chainring, provided it is hilly where you live. 
    
     STX does have a problem with low-end gearing that can be a factor
     on hills.  The 22-tooth option is certainly the cheaper upgrade,
     but I think the diameter is just too small mechanically.  I
     elected to swap out the stock 12-28 cog stack for a 13-30 and
     so far, I'm satisfied.  True, I did lose some top-end, but I like
     the hills, and I needed more bottom-end.

     For '95 STX has been 'improved' (STX-RC) and a 22-tooth ring is now standard
     STX-RC.  

    

    I though chain suck was when a ring was so mucky that the chain stays
    on a ring for more than the usual, say 250� of rotation and got all
    bollaxed up when it made 360� and tried to double wrap on itself.
    
    ed

    You are right, ten lashes of a chain on me.  However chain suck usually
    ends up with it stuck between chainstay and chainring.
    
    steve

    ahh, yes, chain stuck vs chain suck, equally undesirable results...
    
    ed

    <- There's a nasty follow-on line there, but I don't want the mods
       to get mad at me.
       

    Lower the derailleur?  That's usually dictated by the big ring, but it
    helps keep the slop out of the chain.  This is assuming you have the
    "anti-suck" screw adjusted properly...