Conference noted::bicycle

    
    Chip, just curious what MTB do you have? Is it another TI frame?
    
    Shaw

     Naw... It's a very old ROSS - '83-'84 vintage 10spd (dbl crank).
    A real piece of junk. However, it's never seen any maintenance
    and still works fine.
    
     I don't do enough ATB riding to invest heavily in an off-road machine.
    
      Chip

    	Oh my gawd!
    
    	A bike made in 1983 is "very old" ?
    
    	Jeepers I'm over the hill... (and I look like it too))))))))))))))

           Went over just like Artie Johnson used to on Laugh In
    yesterday. @#$%*&^!!!ing sand! Road rash and an elbow like
    Popeyes'. 
     Road rash to the handle bar tape and rear wheel out of true
    for the bike.
     Never even got my feet out of the toe clips, it happened so 
    fast.
    bob c.

    Bob,
    
    "Never even got my feet out of the toe clips"... that's what caused my
    crash two weeks ago (3 days after (finally) picking up my Cannondale
    R900.  The ONLY blemish was a "slight" dent in the seat stay which,
    upon further inspection at my shop proved to be small "cracks"
    appearing just below the paint surface which, of course, was caused
    when the bike came to rest against a granite curbstone when I failed to
    kick my heel hard enough out of my clipless Looks!!  
    
    Alas... the frame was trashed.  Maybe I'll make the Guiness (Book, not
    Stout, for you folks across the Pond) for trashing a frame in the
    shortest amount of time after waiting the longest amount of time for
    delivery.
    
    The good news is that Cannondale is going to contribute to the
    replacement cost.
    
    Happy motoring!!!
    
    Irv
                                                                  

       Sorry to hear about that Irv. Hope all works out quickly with
    the replacement. 
       I too was riding a new Bridgestone RB-2. Checked it out
    pretty closely, didn't find any significant damage. Scary though.
       Frame damage would have been extremely disappointing.
    bob

    
    	Well, I just had my first (and hopefully only) wipeout for
    	'92. The wipeout occurred fairly quickly, here are some
    	afterthoughts:
    
    	I shifted over about a foot, from left to right. As this was 
    	happening someone was speeding by on my right - my front wheel
    	locked in with his rear wheel. He should've hollered that he
    	was passing very quickly on my right.
    
    	Net: I got launched while doing 23 mph - landed on soft dirt and
    	rolled. The helmet absorbed the bulk of the impact. Everything's
    	fine - a spoke broke and the wheels needs truing.
    
    	I have to admit it - the accident was REAL scary. The net was
    	fine
    
    	my 2 cents,
    	 /Rich 
                                       

     Glad to hear the damage was minimal... I hate guys who simply can't
    say "on your left." Then again, those are the guys that really don't
    know their right from their left!
    
      Chip

    	It's kinda like boot camp. The DI would bark (how apropos)
    	a command, something like "Column left, March." The next
    	words outa his mouth were "Your other left, stupid."
    
    	Semper Fi
    
    	Scott

       It must be one of those weeks for the pedal gremlins. Yesterday I
       too had difficulty getting out of my Look pedals once I was home
       after my ride. I however ended up going over on my right back side,
       with the bike ending up above me.

       Damage to bike: None, just a little dirt on the back of the saddle
       and the top of the right brake hood. But it going to the shop today
       for a good check up and look over.

       Damage to me: Scraped right knee, bruised right hip on the back
       side. And my ego was momentarily bruised.

       /dale

    
    
    
        I made a dumb mistake yesterday and really launched. I was trying
    to go to the front of the pack on the last lap and the third last
    corner of a crit. I was zooming up the side of the pack and going much
    faster than most of the race into the corner, I realized there was
    not room at the instant I was going into the corner so I touched my rear 
    brake lever and surprizingly the rear wheel locked!! I tried to steer
    out of the slide and I was doing OK the bike was still upright and I
    was gaining control, but that the curb was getting closer. About the
    time the front wheel touched the curb I pulled upwards, this saved my
    wheels I think, now I was on very wet grass. The bike started to
    slide sideways again and I was on the ground. I slid about 20 feet in
    the mud and wet grass.
      The bike was OK after all this, just muddy. I was OK and muddy, my
    knee recieved a good bump somewhere along the way. I was really happy
    that I didnt bring anyone down with me, that would have ruined the day.
      I learned 2 things here, 1) dont wait until the final lap to gain a 
    better position for the finish 2) be very very carefull braking in
    corners.
    
    
                                                         \regards
                                                           Wayne V
                                                                        

    
    I had my first crash since I was a kid, while out on the inaugaural DEC
    Reading cycle club road ride, today. 
    
    It was one of those that I'm sure we've all had at some time or
    another: Looked up; saw pothole; swerved to miss it; found my front
    wheel being irrestibly attracted towards the kerb; hit it; fell off.
    Result, grazed hip, forearm and back, bruised left hand. If I hadn't
    been wearing gloves... Ouch.
    
    Funnily enough, although I didn't hit my head, I'm now definitely
    thinking of getting a helmet !
    
    Trevor

    Not so much a crash as an embarrasment.
    
    Just coming into Applecross yesterday (whereby hangs another story)
    we stopped to have a cup of tea.   I carefully negotiated a farmyard 
    and just as I was coming to a stop I planted the front wheel in 4
    inches of sand which was lurking and looking innocently as though it
    was hard packed.  Even at that speed I went straight over the
    handlebars and landed heavily on on my hand - a heavily bruised thumb
    andmultiple scratches all over my body.  I also bent the derailleur
    which meant for care when changing on the weay back up the pass of the 
    Cattle...

    
    A very good friend of mine was out riding a century in Southern
    Illinois. His road buddy quit at 50 miles, but he decided to continue.
    He looked for someone to ride with and found two guys with comparable
    bikes (he rides a Specialized Allez, top-o-the-line). He figured that
    they would know what they were doing. John rides approximately 250-300 
    miles a week. 
    
    He was drafting, going about 24 mph when the guy in front of him took
    an unexpected right turn.
    
    The last thing John remembers was flying over the handlebars. He broke
    his shoulder, had a severe concussion, and other scrapes and bruises.
    Needless to say, he's out for at least 6 weeks. Even though he has been
    riding with a bum shoulder.
    
    His helmut saved him serious head injuries....in my opinion a helmut is
    the cheapest life insurance we roadies can buy!

    I thought a doberman was a helmut.  :-)
    
    Sorry to hear about the crash.
    
    ed

    I'd like to add my "endo" story:
    
    I was flying down this hill, front tire got stuck in a rut and I
    endo'd, flew a few feet and landed on my head.  On the way, twisting
    the handle bars around with my neck/shoulder.  I survived, and my bike
    is one of those older clunky MTB's, so there was no damage.  
    
    I was a hero, though for doing my first endo! It hurts to be a hero.
    
    
    BTW:  They say that it's best to stay on the bike if possible.  Less
    damage to both the rider and bike....
    
    Nicole
    

RE: .16   
>    BTW:  They say that it's best to stay on the bike if possible.  Less
>    damage to both the rider and bike....


I don't know about that.  A couple of weeks ago, during a picture shoot for an
article in a local weekly, I made an emergency dismount because I realized that
I was going to run into a (granite) curb if I didn't.  I ran-out my momemtum, and
the bike stopped when it hit the curb.  The only damage to the bike was a few
scratches to one side of the rim, and they were worn down by braking by the end
of the day.  I think that if I had stayed on the bike I would have pretzeled the
wheel.

Rich

    I guess each situation is different.  Even if I wanted to stay on the
    bike, I couldn't have.  My toe clip let go--
    
    I now realize the importance of wearing a helmet.  I would have had to
    try and locate my scattered brains if not for the helmet.  
    
    I really didn't fully understand the amount of danger in this sport
    until I crashed.....
    
    Nicole

    
    	I hadn't heard that it is good to stay with the bike. What nasties
    I've seen and felt up close looked a lot better once the rider was away
    from the bike. One time in particular a riding buddy went down @25 mph
    or so on a downhill after launching off a rock and getting a poor
    landing. He had his leg stuck thru the triangle and had to take some
    bruises until he could kick the bike free, then he was able to roll out
    and stop.
    	I recommend learning how to fall if you're going to get into this
    type of sport. It can come in real handy 8*) I think a good proficiency
    level would be to be able to take a dive off a picnic table.
    
    	Roger

    
    It is good for the bike to stay with it in a fall so that you use 
    your body to cushin it. That is if the bike is more important to you
    than your body. Like Roger said, you can get tangeled up in the bike
    pretty bad. I know , just last weekend, I went over a drop, took a 
    nose dive and somehow that bike just stayed with me, it all happened 
    so quick, the teeth in the large chain ring made some nasty bite marks
    on my leg, not to mention the bruise I got in my chest from the AT-4 
    bar. Same with motor cycles, it is best to let go of the bike , you 
    can always replace/repair the bike. :-)
    
    Shaw                                                       

    
    
    	Not so in the UK. Use your body to cushion the blow of the bike.
    You reapir free on the National Health Service (if you're prepared to
    wait a couple of years). You've got to pay to fix the bike...  :*)
    
    Graham.

    I hope this isn't a dumb question but if a person takes a bad
    spill off of a bicycle and he/she has clipless petals, is it likely
    that the person would/wouldn't fly off the bicycle?  
    Would the shoes be disengaged from the petal?
    

    
    RE: fly off the bicycle.
    
    Only with the professional clipless, such as Carbo Prose or the like.
    With these pedals you can use an allen wrench to adjust the ejection
    velocity (bolt on the underside of the pedal).  At maximum force,
    you will, with any luck, be ejected *over* most of the peleton.
    (If you are ejected forward, over the finish line, it will not count,
    for you must retrieve your machine, alas, UCI rules.)
    
    
    Ok, my experience is that when you fall quickly and smartly, and your
    legs are at an odd angle, your feet will snap out, thus preventing
    wrenching your muscles & joints.  
    
    If you fall over slowly, gradually, e.g., when not thinking at a
    stop light, there will be no force applied to the feet, and they
    will stay in the pedals.  Then a friend or passing motorist should
    help you disengage from your bike. :-)
    
    -john

     RE; a friend helping you disengage... Ya sure, after he/she is done
    laughing their heads off at you  :-)
    
     I can support (from experience) that you do disengage with LOOK
    Carbon Pros. I tested them one night at the old Sudbury TT one
    evening. You do pop out! But I couldn't tell you whether it was
    the first or second bounce that broke me free...
    
    
        Chip

    	A couple of years ago, I went to a race in Fitchburg, MA, to
    	meet Chip and watch him race. I was standing on the side of
    	the road trying to figure out which rider he was (the race had not
    	started and riders were milling around).
    	So, I spot Chip, and he rides over and we shake hands. Then,
    	someone falls down behind Chip, causing a few stares and some
    	laughter. Chip said something like "this happens all the time."
    
    	It's funnier at a stop light when all the auto drivers are
    	watching.
    
    	Scott

    
    
    	My favourite is from a local midweek time trial a good few years
    ago when one of my clubmates was on the start line. All you heard was
    5-4-3-2-1-GO Clatter. He forgot to start pedalling...  Never lived it
    down so gave up cycling and became a born-again christian. After
    performances like that I reckon he should've become a circus clown
    instead...
    
    Graham.

Nobody saw my accident, although "they" say I was conscious when 
"they" arrived at the scene.  I probably just fell off my bike, 
all by myself, although the ruts in the pavement, the 3 inch drop 
off to the shoulder, and the sand everywhere may have been 
contributing factors.  It's good news that I don't move as fast
as some of you folks; I couldn't have been going any faster than
15 mph when my left side hit the asphalt. 

<     If you fall over slowly, gradually, e.g., when not thinking at a
<     stop light, there will be no force applied to the feet, and they
<     will stay in the pedals.  Then a friend or passing motorist should
<     help you disengage from your bike. :-)

Well, John,

I guess I met the "slowly" condition, I certainly have met the 
"not thinking" condition.  My feet stayed in my Spag's running
shoes and my no-name-any-more clips.  The friend AND passing
motorist (a lovely combination) did disengage me from my bike ...
shouldn't have been too hard ... the report stated that the bike
was merely "between her legs".  The f and pm also disengaged my
head from my helmet, called the emergency people, etc. 

However, the medical people stated OVER and OVER (alright, maybe 
once; I'm the one with the concussion, so what do I really know?)
that the f and pm should NOT have moved me, the bike, or the 
helmet.  Most particularly NOT the helmet.  

After 24 hours hospitalization, my situation is back to its
normal; "they" did a CAT scan and didn't find anything!   :-)

Sally who may not operate heavy equipment for a week, ditto the 
bike, but may drive a car whenever she feels she's able!  Talk 
about backwards priorities and mixed messages!

    
    Well, Sally, good going.  Thanks for the entertaining tale, and
    I'm very glad you're ok.  Medical personnel (explains my medical
    friend) are edgy about removing the helmet because of dislodged
    cranial matter the helmet may have collected ... um, sorry, I mean
    because of possible damage to the cervical spine.
    
    Anyway, I'm truly glad you're ok.
    
    cheers,
    -john

    
    	RE:20
    
    		Yeah, that's funny. I forgot about that old joke.
    Whenever anyone would want to borrow your M/C you made them
    promise to throw their body under it in a slide.
    	I've been involved in discussion a lot about cleats and
    although favored by road going cyclists they don't seem to
    be the best thing for off-road. It would be nice to hear some
    more opinions on this related to MTB.
    	I think it's been discussed before but on the subject of
    falls at low speed it seems that the flop factor can make a 
    difference in the amount of injury sustained. This applies to
    skiing (read that snowboard skiing) and motorcycling as well.
    Higher rates of speed seem to produce a skimming effect or the
    dynamics change so that serious injury is often avoided. The
    thrill factor is still way up in high speed crashes and meeting
    with immovable objects is detrimental.
    
    	Roger

    While touring in Ireland, tootling along in the bunch, I finally
    became so irritated by my front mudguard making so much noise that I
    kicked it as hard as I could with my right foot.
    
    The local Irish doctor treated me 'on the house'. My friend needed
    stitches in his chin (no anaesthetic). Still had 60 miles to go that
    day ...
    
    Dougie

    A couple of weeks ago, I woke up at 5:00 A.M. and decided to go for a
    ride on the trail around the lake where I live.  My bike was in the
    basement, dissasembled, so I grabbed my sons bike.  As I slipped my
    feet into the toe clips, I noticed that the left one felt a little
    tight.  Not surprising as his feet are about two sizes smaller than
    mine.  I thought that it would be alright and didn't try to pull my
    foot out to test the fit.  
    
    As I was riding, I decided to take the high road at one point which I 
    have been avoiding all year due to a rather large tree which had fallen 
    across the path.  I figured that if I coudn't jump over it, I would just 
    get off the bike and climb it.  It was too high for me and I coudn't
    get the front wheel to clear so I was stopped dead in my tracks on this
    hillside trail with a 20 ft. cliff drop on my left side.  I pulled my
    right foot out but my left foot was stuck fast.  I tried to lean to the
    right but I lost my balance and as I fell over to the left side, the
    bike's front wheel caught on a tree branch and hung me upside down over
    the cliff.  
    
    This all happened very quickly and the only thing that kept going through
    my head as I was hanging there was that old saying; "Never ride alone..."
    Eventualy, I did manage to get my foot free and fell the rest of the
    way ending in a nice gentle slide on the run out slope at the bottom.
    Nothing hurt other than a sore left ankle.  Next time, I'll take the time 
    to adjust the toe clips.  It's no fun when youre stuck to your bike and
    get into hot water.
    
    			Don

    
    Whatever the lessons learned, that is an amazing picture, 
    usually only seen in cartoons!  Why does Wile E. Coyote come to mind?
    
    -john

    >			     -< glad you're ok... >-
    
    >	Why does Wile E. Coyote come to mind?
    
    
    Thanks John, I guess that I'm no Road Runner...
    
    I wonder if I could set up a video camera and stage that whole scene
    over again?  Who knows, might be good for $10,000 and that would buy
    a lot of bike.
    
    Naw, I probably coudn't go up that hill with the same enthusiasm next
    time.  Now my son on other hand...  
    
    Never mind.
    
    		Don

    	My worse crash, Happen while racing in R.I. two week ago. the race
    was fifty laps, at two laps too go you would think you would get rid of
    all the jerks. But there was one. The person hit the crub and fell down
    taking the next person behind him down. I was the third person. the
    pack was tight and I had now were to go but through the guys. I was in the
    top ten at this time. I hit the guy laying down. broke my right thumb
    as it was going through the handle bars. did a 360 in the air, twisted
    both knees trying to release the bike from my feet. then landed on my
    right knee, rolling out of that I hit a nice crub with my right
    shoulder. I was doing about 25 to 28 mph. the thing about this I had
    very little road rash but a lot of pain from the blows.  the ER Doc. put
    on a big cast, a week later I went to my Sport Doc. and he set me up
    with half the size cast and fitted to my handle bars. out of five years
    of racing this was my worse crash. I rather have people riding over
    me, than breaking bones
    
    
    the good thing was little damge to the bike. a little hole on the seat
    and a little rip on the handle bar tape.
    
    Mike