Conference noted::bicycle

    Not only the weight difference, but the reduced rolling resistance will
    make things easier.  Still, it's conceivable that you'll need lower
    gears, depending on where you live, and what shape you're in.  That
    should be no problem;  if you find the gearing too high, you can put on
    either a smaller front chainring (39, or, depending on the brand, 38),
    or a larger rear cog. (It should take at least a 24, and will probably
    take a 26 or 28.)  The changes are easy for anyone with the right tools
    to make.  You don't even need a new freewheel, just the individual rear
    cogs that you want to change.
    
    I'd say you should ride the bike, buy it if you like its handling, and
    worry about the gears after riding it a few weeks.
    
    
    MATT

    
    ... basically "what MATT said."
    
    George is in reasonable shape, and the hills here are not terrible -
    mainly rolling.  I would be entirely comfortable with a 40x23 (my
    lowest at the moment is 42x24, which is way beyond what local terrain
    demands - though needed for the Blue Ridge).  So Matt's strategy sounds
    good.  I definitely see no need for a triple on roads around here -
    Robin's situation is clearly different, for example.  :-)
    
    People like the RB-1 and RB-2.  If you want to spend more, say in
    the $800-$900 range, yes you will get a nicer bike - in that range,
    there's a big choice, including the RB-1, the Specialized Allez
    (carbon fibre), Trek aluminum bikes, and the start toward a Merlin
    (maybe a Ti seatpost :-) :-) :-)).
    
    But the RB-2 should be satisfying.  If you could test-ride bikes
    in *both* price ranges...
                                                               -john

    Bikes @$500+ price range tends to be for racing :
    the normal gearing is 42-52 front and 13-24 rear , the reason for 24 or
    higher(less teeth) is for short cage deraileur that allows crisp and 
    solid feel when shifting. Due to the missing 3rd chainring on the front 
    there is no need to take up the chain's lenght by using a longer cage
    on the rear changer. As you save weight on the bike you will not need
    as low of a gear to climb, further more you will get stronger as you
    ride. The most important thing when you road ride (sooner or later)
    will be the chalenge to go faster. Speed is attained at higher gears 
    not low even during climbing , you will end up pushing higher gears 
    as you get more experienced . Too low of gears will be a handicap.
       The more expensive the components get ie. Campy chorus on up or Dura
    Ace gets the less chance that you can go less than a 24-39 for your low 
    gears, cause of the rear deraileur's chain take up capability.Shimano
    105up to the ultegra could take 26 easy maybe 28. like the first
    response said the ride is the important thing, it should fit you and
    when you ride it it should surge forward when you crank on it at lower
    gearing 42-17. A good analogy is the bike will feel like its not there
    when you are riding it. Be careful about real light bikes and
    composites, they could be too flexy and try to see if the front end
    wobbles at higher speeds when you let go of the bars, you might not 
    want that characteristics. also check for toe clip overlap where if 
    your foot is in the strap, pedal at 9 oclock position turn your bars
    to see if the front wheel touches your toes if it does thats something 
    youl'd want to consider living with at stop lights and super slow
    riding. Bridgestones are very good bikes and they even have their own
    factory unlike most that just subcontracts. 
    Good luck
    Ed S.

    re: .3
    
    Campy Chorus can handle a 30 tooth cog.
    
    Phil

    Instead of the short reach rear derailleur

>    <<< Note 2183.3 by WLDWST::SANTOS_E >>>
>    Bikes @$500+ price range tends to be for racing...

    Unless they are for touring or for off-road.

    -Jeff Bell

    reply to .6
    RB means road bike 
    touring bikes that I know of are $600 price max , I've never seen any
    $900 touring bike . (yet)

    You haven't looked very hard...

    
    Ed, (at the risk of making this a crucial issue) in fact the
    Cannondale ST-1000 (for example) probably runs well over $600.

      The Myiata 1000LT also ran ove $600.00. It was close to $900.00 when we
      sold them 2 years ago.

      Dave

    
    REPLY .7
    
    	I'll make you a $3,000. touring or cross bike just as soon as I get
    tooled up.  
    
    							Norm
    
    

    Wow I must realy be out of touch with the current prices on bikes.
    but I still don't see spending $ on a touring bike to make it light? 
    or whatever then throw all the paniers , sleeping bags , pots and pans,
    etc. I respect your style of riding guys but spending money to make 
    others rich is not my goal. I'll ride anything cheap and still go fast
    cause I am inshape not cause I have money to throw away.
    
    Best regards
    Ed S.

    
    Ed, why assume that extra dollars put into a touring bike would 
    make it lighter?  That's certainly not the only thing that comes
    with higher cost, nor the only reason to pay more.
    
    Racing example: How much lighter is Dura-Ace than Ultegra or 105?
    Is weight-savings why some people would spend the extra for Dura-Ace?
    
    Higher-cost touring bikes may give you things like cantilever brakes
    (more effective, not lighter than calipers); fenders; higher quality
    frame (better workmanship, nicer tubing); integrating wiring (for
    lights, etc.) and higher quality saddle and other components.  
    
    Sometimes the higher cost touring bikes can actually be a bit heavier 
    than the less expensive ones.
    
    Make sense?
    -john

    I am also interested in the RB-2.  The write up on it made it sound
    very appealing!  They categorized the RB-2 as a "road/sport" bike.
    I am not familiar with this category. Is this a category for cross 
    between a road racing bike and a touring bike?  
    
    _kathy 
    

    
    Kathy, "road/sport" means it is not a competition-level racing bike
    (maybe a good training bike for a racer, though).  You should be able
    to use a bike like that for some touring, but I wouldn't say its
    design or features borrow anything from true touring bikes.
    
    Interestingly, the article in Bicycling downrated the RB-2 slightly
    for lacking braze-ons for mounting racks, panniers, etc. - things
    you'd want for touring.  (But as they say, you can buy clamp-on
    attachments for mounting these items.)  So this makes the RB-2 more
    "pure-racing" than it might first appear.
    
    All that aside, a designation like "road/sport" is not an absolute
    cycling-world-wide recognized term - it's just Bicycling's attempt
    to characterize the primary uses of the bike.
    
    -john

   >I am also interested in the RB-2.  The write up on it made it sound
   >very appealing!  They categorized the RB-2 as a "road/sport" bike.
   >I am not familiar with this category. Is this a category for cross 
   >between a road racing bike and a touring bike?  
       
   Well, I just happen to have the new Bridgestone Catalog at my desk. No, I
   did not paid $4.00 for it. I happen to work a a place that sells them :-).
   
   Before everyone goes running to a Bridgestone dealer and ask for a RB-2.
   I would just like to inform you that there sizes are 50, 53, 56, 59, 62 cm.
   I noticed they missed my size 57.5-58 cm. But they do have it on the RB-1
   which cost about $300 more.

   As for the bike, I have not seen any other 1992 road/racing bike made in
   Japan at this price level yet. I think this was what Bicycling Mag. liked
   most. The frame (Ishiwata CrMo) has the same geometry as the RB-1. Also the
   bike comes with a 700 X 28C tire which is great for training. It can
   accommodate up to 32C tires which can handle dirt road or a heavier load.
   The traditional Bridgestone has a long top tube in the past but I have 
   not yet test ride the new ones yet. I usually recommend this bike for 
   a ride with a long torso and arms.

   Happy Hunting
       
   Huey 

    John I realize the reasons why other things cost more than the same
    item but different make. The question is how much do you realy want to 
    pay. 
    
    As far as sport/racing categories the sport usually means longer wheel
    base for comfort in shock arbsorbtion. This is not the case on the RB2
    however perhaps they want the same handling characteristics.
    They will also have less expensive tubing sometimes the forks or the
    rear stays are of lower quality materials. The sport frames could also
    have eyelets on the dropouts (wheel mounting ends)for fenders or racks.
    the Racks and panniers will offset the handling characteristics however
    due to the reduced wheelbase unlike a pure touring frame.
    A Racing category would have higher gearing configuration so it saves
    weight but mainly for a more performance sided customer. The frame will
    also have better tubing, sometimes a steeper fork angle etc. Heres a
    summary:
    
    Sport - training , long rides , for 2nd phase of getting into the sport
                       ( my first good bike syndrome ) its good but
                       could be inferior to others views if you decide to
                       realy get into a club scene. It also will accomodate
                       a wider range of use ie. touring or comutting.
    
    Racing - training , racing ,generslly not as comfortable ( depends on
             materials used on the frames) more expensive but better parts,
             a bike you can be proud of at the club scene. twitchy at first
             but climbs better, 3rd phase you are hooked at this time. You
             can commute on this but youll need a backpack or it can get
             stolen , crash , flat easier with narrow tires.All in all its 
             where most of us will eventually own, unless you do not like
             roadriding or just touring .
    
    Ed

    Ed's Sport vs. Racing description is a good one.  Based on that,
    the RB-2 may not be an ideal "sport" bike (because it doesn't have
    the touring braze-ons)... probably more a race-bike, spiritually.
    Be that as it may...
    
    A word on "twitchiness" - this is an especially good distinction
    when talking about American-style racing bikes, which are designed
    primarily for criteriums.  The traditional European racing designs
    (De Rosa, Merckx, the Bridgestone RB-1, Ci�cc, etc. come to mind)
    are in fact designed to be comfortable and not twitchy - because
    they are designed for long, hilly road races.  Of course, all this
    is relative.
    
    Nice point.
    -john

	Thanks for all the good input, I decided to buy the RB-2. I 
	had the bike shop fit it with bar end shifters, and replace
	the 13-23 freewheel with a 12-28. My first ride was an averaged
	pace club ride with a long climb early in the ride. I was glad
	to have 40-28 gear.

	
	Thanks

	George 

    
    RE: .-1   My information is that George dropped the ride leader
              on yesterday's ride.  :-)
    
              When he gets used to the bar-end shifters, watch out!
    
    	      -john

     Any more to report on the RB-2? Did you test ride any other bikes for
    comparison before buying?  The reason I ask is that I too am in the
    market for somthing new after 16 years on a Juenet 10 sp. It has served
    me well but its high time for something new.
     I've done some reading and talked to the CYCLE LOFT in Burlington Ma.
    and Chelmsford Cyclery.
     It appears I'm on a huge frame (25") for someone with
    a 32" inseam. When I bought the bike in 76' the salesman said straddle
    the cross bar. It didn't cause any damage so he said it fit.
     Turns out, I should be on something closer to 22"/56cm.
     I'll be test riding the RB-2, Bianchi Eros, C'dale 500, and Trek 1200
    for starters but I'm sure I'll be overwelmed with the difference 
    bettween the first one I try and the old Juenet.
     Any advice/comments would be appreciated.

	Having gotten used to my ATB all road bikes felt strange.
	I wanted to test ride a RB-1 but couldn't find one in the area.
	I relied heavily on the recommendation from Bicycling and the 
	feeling of responsivness I got from the RB-2. 

	So far, ~150 miles, I've had only one problem with the bike. The
	spring that holds the rear brakes open would disengage every
	time I removed the rear wheel, actually I think it occured when
	I putting the wheel on. I took it back to the bike shop and
	they  fixed it.

	A few nits. According to Bicycling the frame is supposed to have a 	
	pump peg, mine doesn't. I've also noticed that the paint job on the 
	inside of the chain stays is less that perfect. 

	Overall I'm very happy with the bike. On club rides I get lots of 
	positive comments about the look of the bike.   I'd have a lot 
	more miles on it if not for job, family and rain. 

	George	
		

       Interesting about the pump peg. I've seen it on every picture
    of the bike (catalog and bicycling mag) but didn't check the showroom
    bike. Will look for it when I test ride. I do remember the paint job
    not being that impressive quality wise, but I do like the color 
    combination (blue/white).
       Thanks for the follow-up George. Best of luck with the bike.
    
      Bob

What was ther size of the bike? Since the RB2 size runs from 53, 56 then 59.
I think the 53 doesn't have room for the pump peg. But I am pretty sure the 56
larger size will. I will check tonight when I am working. 

As for the RB-2, at that $500-550 price range. It is tought to fing a Cro-Moly
frame that is made in Japan anymore. Most are made in mainland China. Add about
$150 and you could be looking into the C-dale and some of the bike will then be
made in Japan.

Dave

      Dave, what shop do you work for. 
             bob

>What was ther size of the bike? Since the RB2 size runs from 53, 56 then 
>59.I think the 53 doesn't have room for the pump peg. But I am pretty 
>sure the 56 larger size will. I will check tonight when I am working.

	Yep, its a 53 cm frame.

>	Yep, its a 53 cm frame.

The 56cm and up have the pump peg.

Dave

Hey, the last 5 replies have got to be the most rivetting of 1992......

(Sorry folks - couldn't resist it....)

    
    Robin's right.  We need to take the lead here and create a 
    *separate note* on: 
    
    	PUMP PEGS AND OTHER PUMP-ATTACHMENT TECHOLOGIES - RIGHT OR WRONG?
    
    Reply .1 already comes to mind:
    
        Ti Pump Pegs - weight savings or what?
    
    Just a thought... :-)
    -john

      OHHHH!  The new guy is bumped into the soft shoulder and crashes
    hard! He picks himself up and brushes off. Bleeding heavily after
    impaling himself on his pump peg he gets back on the bike and
    chalks this one up to experience. !;)

You also learned you need a sense of humour -

Welcome........

       Took my wifes bike to Cycle Loft in Burlington for a tune-up
    yesterday. And gee, while I'm here, and I've got my bike shoes and 
    helmet on, and its' not raining,' why don't I try out a few bikes'
    I sez to myself!
    
     So I did.
    
       Took the RB-2 out, loved it. After riding high atop a 25" frame
       for fifteen+ years this ride felt small but comfortable. Shifted
       very smooth with Shimmano 400EX, and braking was very good without
       feeling overly sensitive. I think next time I'll ask to have the
       saddle adjusted to proper height because my knees tended to come
       up close to the elbows. I'm not sure about this sensation, like
       I said, I've been on a really big frame for a long time. Any
       suggestions?
     
       Road the C'Dale R400. Nice, but felt cramped. Same frame size, 56cm,
       but thought it might be the difference in crank length, 175=RB-2
       170?=R400. Felt small out of the saddle too. Didn't shift as 
       smooth as  the RB-2. Brakes were very good, almost too good.
       Seemed like it would be too easy to send myself over the bars
       like some errant Scud missle. Liked the frame stiffness a lot
       though.
    
       They didn't have anything in the Treks built up in a 56cm frame
       but had a 58cm Trek 2100 composite I tried. Shimano 105 group
       was nice but wasn't that much better than the other less expensive
       components I tried. The frame felt too big when in the saddle,
       but better out of the saddle. Brakes were good but again almost
       too good. Guess I'm just used too the vise grip pressure needed
       to stop the old bike. Couldn't tell the difference between aluminum
       and the composite but then again I had no feeling in my face or
       hands at this time either. Damn it was cold yesterday! 
       This bike was on sale for $800 if anyones interested. List is $1000.
         
         So far its the RB-2 for comfort and component combination. We
       looked at bikes for my ten year old too. $$$$$$  Hope my wife
       settles for the tune-up! Lets see, $600+ for mine, $250+ helmet$
       for Justins, bottle$, cage$. Hope that yellow Tax envelope shows
       up in the mail soon.
    
         Any suggestions/comments welcome.    b.c. 

    re:-1
    
    You might want to pickup Bicycling's buyer guide issue (March issue)
     There is a very nice article on the RB-2 after and it is one of the
     best buys for 92. 
     As for the Trek 2100, I just sold mine and will be picking up a 
     Bridgestone (RB-1) instead. Since I am just a recreational rider 
     that loves to go fast and also apreciates a smooth ride, I am moving
     to Bridgestone. After reading about the RB-2, I am going to ride that
     too, I could save myslef $400.00 and use the money to get lighter
     wheels.
     I have been more of an MBT rider and a road rider only for the past
     year, but in my short time riding on the road and under $1000, I 
     not riden anything as sweet as the Bridgestones.
    
     Shaw

       I've got the issue already. Seems accurate on all points. It
     _is_ a very nice bike for the money. I'm thinking of trying the
     RB-1 in the 57.5cm frame to see if I 'm more comfortable.
     Though it would be difficult to come up with the extra bucks.
     As someone else mentioned, the RB-2 jumps from 56 to 59 in 
     frame sizes.
      Any thoughts on making up the difference 56 to 57.5 with stem,
     seat adjustments? Anyone?
      Also, I chose the Cycle Loft to shop at because they are very
     close by and they seem to have a nice operation (lots of bikes
     to choose from, nice people). I'm not familiar with their service
     shop though. Anyone else have any expierience with them?
            thanks, Bob

    
       Took the RB-2 out, loved it. After riding high atop a 25" frame
       for fifteen+ years this ride felt small but comfortable. Shifted
       very smooth with Shimmano 400EX, and braking was very good without
       feeling overly sensitive. I think next time I'll ask to have the
       saddle adjusted to proper height because my knees tended to come
       up close to the elbows. I'm not sure about this sensation, like
       I said, I've been on a really big frame for a long time. Any
       suggestions?
     
       Road the C'Dale R400. Nice, but felt cramped. Same frame size, 56cm,

	> b.c.
	>
	> Maybe it's because it's Monday morning, but I have a question.
	> How can someone who has ridden a 25" (63.5 cm) frame for 15+
	> years now ride a 22" (56 cm) frame and feel comfortable?
	>
	> Scott

      When I bought the old bike 15 years ago the guy at the bike
    shop said straddle the top tube. I did, it didn't do major damage,
   (but I've had this really high voice for a long time now),and not
    knowing any better I bought it.
    I'm 5'11" and I've got a 32.5" inseam. I've been really streched out
    the old bike all these years and it may have contributed to some
    severe upper back troubles in the past.
     Any way, they tell me I belong on a smaller frame and after trying
    one I believe they're right. Also from what I have read in this
    conference, the 56 is right for my dimensions.
     But more important than all that, it feels good.
            b.c.

    I have been re-reading this note and wish to make a quick comment.
    I do not know the difference between the RB-1 and RB-2 but in general
    why spend the extra money?
    
    As a mechanic, I see lower quality equipment breaking down more often.
    This is manytime in areas one would not see, bottom bracket, headset,
    hubs.  As you move to higher quality components, the bearing surfaces
    are generally better.  
    
    You may wish to remove the front wheel from any of the bikes you are
    test riding and compare the smoothness.  Ask the shop to feel a
    Dura-Ace, Campy, Superbe setup to see how nicely the "ideal" feels.
    
    Other places that are usually differences include the saddle.  The
    lower version could be vinyl where the upper model is leather.  I,
    personally, wouldn't want to do a multi-day tour on a vinyl saddle.
    
    BTW: If you are looking for the ultimate cross/touring bike, I suggest
    to search out the Bruce Gordon Rock and Road.  Fritz's bike shop in
    Worcester I have heard carries this bike.  
    
    steve

    
    Steve, the differences between the RB-1 and RB-2 are both the
    components and the tubing, as I recall. (BTW, thanks for the
    info on "Why buy more expensive?")  
    
    The RB-1's components are at the Ultegra level (though they're
    a mixture of various brands).  The tubing is higher quality, 
    so the frame should be lighter and give a "nicer" ride. 
    The RB-1's frame is Japanese-made; I don't recall about the RB-2's.
    Oh yes, and the saddle may be higher quality - as per your comment.
    
    -john

      Thanks for the reply Steve, your pointer on bearing surface
    quality sounds interesting. Next time I'll pull the front wheel
    and match it against something of higher quality.
      As John said, the RB-1 has higher quality tubing and wheels/
    components. This reduces wieght by a pound compared to the RB-2.
    The RB-1 also comes with a leather saddle and deep drop handle
    bars.
      Point well taken though. I just can't swing the extra bucks
    right now. Not on what DEC pays me :-)   
    
      Bob

    I've heard the bearing thing a million times.  It reminds me of
    some of the things stereo salesmen used to do -- like turning up
    an amp without any music source, and listening to how "clean" it
    was.
    
    I've often wondered whether smoother bearing surfaces (on wheels)
    really amounted to anything in performance.  I think the only
    time you'd notice them is when you spin the wheel while holding
    the axle in your hands!  Usually, even a hub that's rough-feeling
    (Sunshine, Nashbar, cheap Performance) runs and holds up fine.
    
    MATT
    (Who buys wheels to ride, and stereos to listen to music)

    
    RE: the bearing of bearings on performance
    
    I agree with Matt.  Sometimes we get too focussed on minutiae,
    even at the expense of ignoring the truly significant performance
    boosters ... well, say, for example, aero seatposts.  :-)
    
    -john

      Just a thought, but wouldn't smoother/harder bearing surfaces
    increase bearing life? I think he was refering to the performance
    (reliability) of the components. Not so much the performance(speed).
      Bob

    Harder bearing surfaces mean longer life.   When I run my bike workshop
    the lower end bikes that I rip apart, especially those ridden by
    agressive riders, are often in dismal state.  
    
    just my opinion
    steve

    When I started riding again I began with a mid priced "sport touring"
    type of bicycle.

    The components simply didn't stand up to serious riding and I eventually
    replaced many of the components with better parts that would last
    but it took trial and error to realize this.

    Stuff like the Campy record hubs I have on some wheels now are amazing,
    each spring I clean and repack them and that's it - they still
    roll smoothly with no babying - they've outlasted the rims they've
    been on.  This is "performance" in my opinion.

    But if you're not going to do lots of hard miles in all kinds of weather,
    this may not be as important.

    - Jim

      So, I guess my next question  would be how much difference in
    quality will I realize by upgrading to the RB-1 with Shimano Ultegra
    hubs, derailleurs, crank, bottom bracket as opposed to the RB-2 with
    Shimano 400EX Derailleurs, Sugino DAC crank, bolt type bottom bracket,
    Shimano Exage 500EX hubs, Hatta Vesta sealed headset.
      I'm not familiar with the quality differences in these components.
    Both bikes have Japanese,Ishiwata CrMo frames with identical goemetry.
    Other differences with the exception of wheels(Ritchey Vantage/Araya)
    and seat(leather/vinyl) appear to be slight.
     Can anyone enlighten. This new bike will be ridden lots of miles.
    thanks , Bob

    
    The traditional wisdom is to buy a better frame, and then upgrade
    components over time, rather than putting nice components on a
    lesser frame (not that the RB-2's frame is poor by any means).
    
    "The frame is the heart of the bicycle."  Go for the best one you
    can, and upgrade the peripherals later.
    
    Of course, it's hard to apply that to the RB-1/RB-2 case, because
    the RB-1 is not only a better frame but has the better components.
    Anyway, if you're going to put a lot of miles and a lot of hours
    on the bike, do the best you can on a frame.
    
    -john

      Thanks for the input John, I'll be ordering this week one way
    or an other. Bike for me, bike for my son, two new helmets,
    incidentals, tune up on wifes bike. Come on tax return! :-)
      I'll let y'all kow how it goes.
    b.c.

    
    The frame for the RB-2 ain't that bad either. the differnce is the
    front fork. aside from the drive train difference, RB-2 does not 
    have a leather seat like Steve mentioned and has heavier wheels.
    But unless you are racing that shouldn't be a problem.
    The weight differnce between the two is only 1.6 lbs. for 56 cm 
    frame. 
    BTW all RB-2 is also Ishiwata frame made in Japan. Bridgeston has a 
    plant in Japan....
    

    From what I've heard, the RB1 frame is only slightly better than the
    RB2 frame.  The RB1 uses seamless tubing; the RB2 tubing is seamed, so
    is a little heavier to get the same strength.  The main quality (and
    weight) difference between the 2 bikes is in the components.  If you
    plan to ride alot (100 miles a week), then the RB1 may be a better bike
    in the long run, otherwise the RB2 will probably make you happy.
    
    Ken
    

       Well folks, did the deed this Friday:-)! Bought the RB-2!
    Actually, I ordered the RB-2. They didn't have the 56cm in my
    color choice (blue/white), only the purple. Should be in on
    Wednesday. Of course we just got 4-6 inches of fresh powder
    last night. But how long can it last in March.
       Also bought my son a Giant Awesome MTB with Bell Streetrider
    helmet, bottle and cage, and Kryptonite lock. He's still glowing!
       Both bikes were on sale, $499 for the RB-2 and $220 for the 
    Giant. And while were were there the guys at the shop were putting
    lables on sale flyers for a sale that starts on the 26th so they
    gave us sale prices on all the accessories as well. 
       I got myself the Bell Image and a new Zefal frame pump. They also
    agreed to swap saddles with the RB-1(leather Avocet) for an extra
    $15.
                           - Cycle Loft-
    
       The guys at the shop were all very helpful over the past few weeks
    and took the time to show my son all about the bike and accessories
    he got. They're nice people to deal with and I wouldn't hesitate to
    recommend them.
       Once again, thanks all for the advice/comments. See you on the
    roads, we'll be the dudes with grins that won't quit :-))))!
     Bob

    
    RE:-1
    
    Bob, first of all congrad. on your purchase. Where is this Cycle loft?
         would you happen to have  a phone number for them? 
    
         The prices you quoted are a lot cheaper than the shop I am/was 
         going to make my purchase, so, if C.L is within an hour or so 
         ride for me, it will be worth it.
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    Shaw

(617)272-0870.  28 Cambridge St., Burlington MA.  It's Exit 33A off 128,
then about 2 blocks south, on your left.

(I was there on Sat. for the first time, looking at a Trek 1400.
Spring is here and bicycle lust with it...)

Andy

         Yeah, what Andy said. Their prices seem very competitive.
    I would have bought from them anyway as I spent a lot of time
    talking to them and trying things on but I compared their prices
    against the Performance catalog this weekend and they meet or
    beat them in all instances. Even before the 10% off sale price.
         Well stocked place. Bicycle lust indeed! So many beautiful
    machines, so little $$$$. Bringing son #2 in for a helmet when
    I pick up my bike. Thank god they hang the 20" bikes from
    the ceiling!
    b.c.

    
    RE: .51   Shaw,	I believe the price for the RB-2 at Buchika's is
    		$575.00.  I just bought the RB-T and I know they were very 
    		close in price.
    
    		Jim
    

I can't believe you got a RB-2 for $499.00. Was this a last years model? But
since you ordered it, I don't think that would have any 59Cm left in stock at
there warehouse.  The difference between last year and this year RB-2 is the
wheels. I think they use wolber last year and they are using Ritchey this
year. The tires might be different also.

If you did get a 92 model at that price, you got a steal. We have made some
price mistake at the shop I work at but they are losing money at the price they
sold it to you.

Good Luck with the RB-2,

Dave  

                                                            

     Thanks Dave, 
    Its a '92 with Araya(sp?)rims with Ritchey skins. 56cm frame.
    The $499 is a sale price, their usual price is $529 I believe.
    This was the price I figured on paying but as I said I would have
    bought there anyway because of the amount of _their_ time I spent
    asking questions and trying out product. Don't think its fair
    to do otherwise regardless of price.
     What brought me to the shop in the first place was proximity
    to home. I live in the next town. Turned out to be just the
    ticket.
     Thanks again Dave for the help offered offline. Much appreciated!
    b.c.

    
    Thanks everyone, as much as I like to shop at Buchika's, because all
    the staff are wonderful knowledgable and very helpful people, I find
    that their prices are higher. This happened with my last three pairs
    of skis I purchased. (ended up saving over $400, on total three skis)
    So since money doesn't grow on threes, I will call these guys at 
    Burlington and see what the  RB-1 is going for. 
    One more question, does anyone know if I am NH resident and purchase 
    my bike in Mass. would I still have to pay the tax. I geuss for a 
    $1000.00 bike it makes a difference.
    
    Shaw

      As far as the RB-1 goes, unless its currently on sale, their
    price is $919 I believe. Paul  @ Cycle Loft gave me an invoice
    sheet of theirs listing all of the 56cm bikes they had in stock
    which included their every day price and any sale price they
    were currently running. It also listed what year model the bike
    was.
      I've checked with a couple of NH residents. They tell me that
    unless you get the shop to deliver to a NH address you have to
    pay Ma. tax. The analogy they used related to appliance sales,
    lumber etc.
      Don't know how this might work with bicycles. 
    b.c.
    

     If you pick up the bike there is no Ma tax. I don't believe a
    shipped item is subject to tax either. I know, they don't tax
    out of state sales of firearms when shipped to Ma. 
    
     Maybe there are "discretionary" commodity listings that qualify as
    taxable...
    
     Chip

>     If you pick up the bike there is no Ma tax. 
    Are you referring to "pick up in NH"? Certainly buying something
    in mass, claiming to be an NH resident, and carrying the item out
    is not cause for avoiding the MA tax.
    
    >I don't believe a
>    shipped item is subject to tax either. I know, they don't tax
>    out of state sales of firearms when shipped to Ma. 
    I ordered a catalog (via mail order) recently. On it, they said
    that by law they were required to collect sales tax from a very
    large list of states. This was news (but not a real concern, being
    from NH) to me.
    
    John

Hi 

	If you buy it in a MA store you pay sales tax.

  	If you order it from a Catalog that has a store (retail) in your
	state you pay your state tax on the purchase. (not an issue for NH)


			Kevin.


	EX:  MA resident orders from BikeNashbar pays MA tax
	     MA resident orders from Performance pays no tax

        I think Kevin hit it on the button. The only way you can avoid 
        the Mass tax is by have them ship it or deliver it to your house.
        But you end up paying the shipping or delivery charge anyway.
 
        I purchased a Kenmore washer and dryer from Sears in Peabody and 
        did not pay any Mass taxes because they delivered it to my house in 
        NH. I did have to pay for shipping which was still less then the 
        Mass taxes I would of had to pay if I did a cash and carry.

        This is the same with cars because they tax you depending on where 
        you register it.

        As for Bikes, if you could get the shop to assemble it and drive it up
        to your house. You might be able to escape the taxes. They could
        also ship it in a box but the shipping and the taxes would almost
        cancel each other and you would end up assembling the bike yourself
        which also void the warrantee in most cases. 
                                                                  
        As for the pricing issues between one store to the next. I've found
        that some places are cheaper in some items and the next store will be
        less in another product. This is because if one store is a higher
        volume dealer on a certain bike. They will be able to get that brand of
        bikes for less so they can sell it for less. The price also depend
        on the time you are purchasing a bike. The bike will be more expensive 
        now then let say in October. But at least you have the available sizes
        and choice of color at this time of year. In most cases, one bike store
        will match the the price of another if the competitors are within a
        reasonable distance. The NH stores will usually add the Mass Taxes into
        there prices though. 

        I have seen customers walk out to our store because they were not sure 
        of our prices after I gave my sales pitch. They would and come back two
        week later only to find out we were by about �$20 for the other stores.
        In most cases, the -$20 stores were 50-60 instead of 10-20 miles away.
        I would hate to have trouble with a brand new bike and have to return
        it to a store 50 miles away because of I save $20 purchasing the bike.

        In Brian case, He got the best of both world. Great Price on the bikes
        and it is near where he lives.

        I hope I did not drag this out.

        Dave              

    According to Massachusetts law, if you are a Massachusetts resident and
    mail order something from out of state that would normally be taxed in
    Massachusetts, you must pay a "use" tax, which has the same rate as the
    sales tax. Of course nobody every pays this except for large
    businesses.
    
    As far as shipping and handling some photography places get around this
    by allowing you to take the camera with you and shipping the box to
    your out of state residence. This way, they have a shipping record to
    show that something was sent out of state. This keeps the book keepers
    and the tax people happy, and the box doesn't weigh that much so that
    shipping isn't as high as it would otherwise be.
    
    Maybe a friendly bike dealer can do something similar for you, like
    shipping the chain to you.
    
    	Marty Sasaki

       Was out to Cycle Loft yesterday to check on readiness of
    my RB-2. They appear have marked all their bikes down for a
    3 day sale (thur-sat).
       Looked like they had some real bargains. 
    Bob

    
    Well, I just called Cycle Loft to see what their prices are on the 
    RB-1, I thought if with tax it is still lower than my local shop 
    then I should drive that extra hour and get it from them. The man
    I spoke with said he will NOT quote sale prices over the phone. 
    I guess that's because other shops could call 'em up and ...
    He also said the if I have a NH address, I would be paying any
    taxes on it!!  That's GREAT!
    
    I any of you local cyclist happen to go by there could please check 
    the price for the RB-1 and post it here.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Shaw
    

>       Was out to Cycle Loft yesterday to check on readiness of
>    my RB-2. They appear have marked all their bikes down for a
>    3 day sale (thur-sat).
>       Looked like they had some real bargains. 

     This is the big sale weekend. Buy now or pay later. Almost every 
     bike store will have a sale this weekend. I know that the prices 
     will be going up on our next re-order.

     Bob, I found out why Cycle Loft is selling the RB-2 at that price
     is due to compotition in Boston. I hear they are really getting into
     price war down there. This is great for the customers by lousy for
     a part time salesman like me since I will have to verify prices all 
     weekend trying to match and beat prices. 

     Dave

    
        Shaw, the price list I have from them lists the RB-1
    for $999.95 normally, $919.95 sale price on 2/14/92.
        This may not reflect the current sale price because
    the same sheet shows the RB-2 for a sale price of $529.95.
    I paid $499.
        I'll be down there tonight and will check the price.
    I'll post it monday but supposedly sale ends saturday.
      
        Dave, sorry to hear about the price war effect on you.
    Bob

    
    Thanks, Bob, they also told me the only frame size they carry in the
    store are 56 cm. I need a 53 or 54. If the price is $919.95 it is not
    too much lower than my local shop. 
    If the only differnce between last years model and the 92 is the 
    bar end shifters, (and the color ofcourse, both I prefer the classic
    green and white as to this years yellow and white anyways) I will
    hunt for last years, I remember they were going for only $800
    at Buchika's, that will leave me some extra towards clipless pedals. 
    
    I will check here on Monday for your price list, Bob. Could you also
    let us know what else is available (road/racing only) with the Ultegra
    components.
    
    Thanks again and I hope you get some riding under the sun on your 
    brand new bike, this Sunday.
    
    Shaw

       Shaw, the RB-1 was $899 when I checked on Friday. As far as size
    availability, I'm sure they could get what your looking for.
       The only other Ultegra equipped bike currently in the shop
    was a Kestrel Performance. I beleive its a touring machine though.
    
       Got it!! The RB-2 is a beautiful bike. I was out in March winds
    and sun yesterday for a most delightful ride. Index shifting, proper
    frame size, what a rush! Handles beautifully. Shifts like a dream.
       I had intended to continue riding the old bike, leaving it
    at work or for foul weather riding, ..........NOT! 
       The MKS cages are very comfortable, as is the Avocet leather saddle.
    The paint job is flawless on this one and the blue and tusk colors
    add a real touch of class. Did I say that the bike is beautiful?
       What is it about a bike that makes you want to display it on a
    wall like fine art? 
    b.c.
    
       Oh yeah, I'm going in for the fit kit this week. Set the seat
    at .885 x inseam for now. Feels fine. (|:-)   
    

    Frank's Spoke and Wheel (Framingham, Rte. 9) had a 62cm '91 RB-1 for 
    about $725 on Saturday.  I didn't see any other sizes, but it might be
    worth a call.  (I very nearly  bought the RB-1 but went for a 63cm
    Miyata (also a '91) instead.  The  RB-1 is truly a thing of beauty,
    though.)
    
    Andy (still a little dazed)

    Thanks to the pointer in .50, I'm now the very happy owner of an RB-2. 
    Cycle Loft had a '92 left for $500 (there's only one 56 cm left).  The
    '93s were going for $650!
    
    I didn't look very hard, but they were the only shop I found with some
    '92s left.  Gamache's is dropping the Bridgestone line entirely.  At
    that price, it was a real no-brain decision.
    
    Jamie

    I'm sure you'll enjoy the RB-2. I have. Thats quite a price jump
    for one year. Did they upgrade the components? Glad I got one last
    year. $150.00 buys quite a few extras.
     I was out this past weekend cycling around Galway. First time I
    was truely happy to have heavy wheels. Roads here are rough!
     Bob

    I've finally gotten my RB-2 out on the road and I have a couple of
    questions:
    
    Do I center the brakes by turning the allen bolt on the frame?  The
    black dustcover on the other side doesn't seem to come off.
    
    The brakes don't grab well and squeal horrendously because, I suppose,
    the rims are new and clean.  What can I do to fix this?  Ride more?
    
    I've got to admit, I like index shifting more than I thought I would. 
    I also really like having the right size frame -- yesterday was the
    first time I've felt comfortable for long periods down on the drops.
    
    Jamie

    There are lots of notes in here on brakes, 1165, 1188, are 2 that might
    be helpful, also 1954.22. (might deal with the squeek issue)
    
    AS for centering, haha, it tricky to do by turning that bolt since that
    bolt tighten the brake.  What you want to do is loosen that bolt, get
    the brake into the right position and then tighten that bolt.  Usually
    tightening that bolt also tries to move the brake so it's good to
    have a tool that will hold the brake in the desired position while
    you tighten that bolt.  Sometimes a cone wrench or a Park offset open
    end brake wrench is just the right tool depending on your brake.  A
    needlenose plier might do it also.  I usually use the Park tool
    without loosening and tightening the bolt, just to tweak the brake over
    a bit.  (Make sure your wheel is true first or you might drive yourself
    nuts.)
    
    ed

Jamie,

To prevent brake squeeling, you have to toe in the brakes. It kind of hard to
explain so I will try to show you on a diagram:

        
                     Brake Pad 
                        |
                        V            Make sure this end of
                      ______ <-------the brake pads touches first.
              ________________________
             |    ------> Rotation    | <-Wheel
              ------------------------
                      ------
                        ^
                        |
                     Brake Pad 
        
I am pretty sure the RB-2 has cone washer on the brake pads to allow of the toe
in. If it doesn't, you have to use a adjustable wrench and  grab the calipers
and carefully toe them in manually.

Since you bike is new, you shop should do all the necessary adjust for you.
Just bring it back to the shop.

Dave

    
    	Another RB-2 problem. I can't be positive but I have a feeling
    	that when my bike was "prepared" for shipment to Galway, the
    	movers turned the handle bars 90 degrees while holding the front
    	wheel between their knees. Without loosening the stem bolt. :-(
    	
    	 Results, rigatoni fork!
    
    	 Actually, it's not immediately noticable. I first noticed it
    	on my first ride of the year in Feb. when I tried riding without
    	holding on to the handle bars. The bike was very hard to control.
    	Such was not the case last year. When I looked down at the fork
    	I noticed that it was out of allignment at the crown but alligned
    	at the hub.
    	
    	 My first question is, does this sound like something that can
    	be staightened.	
    	 Secondly, any ideas of how much to replace the fork. 
    
    	 I'm able to ride the bike as is for now but won't be satisfied
    	til' its fixed properly.

    re .74
    
    I thought that might be the case.  I tried that and found it difficult
    to adjust, I'll give it another go tonight.
    
    re .75
    
    The pads looked toed in, but I'll check again.  I'm not used to the
    tight clearance, my old wheels weren't very true and I had to keep the
    brakes pretty open.
    
    The shop is too far of a drive for minor adjustments, but it is due for
    its check-up.  One of the pedal's bearings are bad, so I have to get
    that replaced.
    
    Thanks for the advice.
    
    Jamie