Conference noted::bicycle

    Mavic has sealed hubs, I think they are more than $100.00 though.  They
    also have a sealed BB, but installation requires special tooling to
    chamfer the BB shell.  Colorado Cyclist sells Mavic by mail.  As an
    aside, I've ridden on sealed bearing Advocet hubs for about five years
    now, they've never been serviced.
    
    Barry

    Keep in mind that in the bearing business, "sealed bearing" means
    that it's sealed against air, not water.  An air seal is useful
    if you're designing an air blower, and you don't want the balls
    to turn into dustballs.

    I've heard that with time the edges of the rubber dry out, and the
    seal starts to work more like a wick, drawing the water into the hub
    by capilary action.  I've also heard that a narrow labarynth seal
    can do the same thing, and that a wide one like on an S.A. 3 speed hub
    is the most effective.

    I'm not sure how much of that to beleive, sealed bearing are not forever.

    -Jeff

    Phil Woods  warantees  his  hubs  for  5 years. That's more than I
    would trust a standard hub for with no maintenance. I know they'll
    need  service  eventually,  but every 5 years is a lot easier than
    every 6 or 12 months.

--David

    Can you service sealed bearings or do you just remove them and toss
    them or do you need to replace the entire component? How do you tell
    when they need to be serviced?
    
    	Marty Sasaki

    Sealed hubs  can  be  serviced  by  pulling  out  the  old bearing
    cartridges  and  replacing  them.  For some models this requires a
    special  tool.  I'm  not  sure  if  you  can reuse the old axle or
    whether  it  gets  replaced  when  you do the bearings. For bottom
    brackets  I  think  that  you  replace  the  entire bottom bracket
    (bearing cartridges and axle) and only reuse the mounting hardware
    (which  thread  where the cups go on a non-sealed bottom bracket.)

    The  thing  which  makes this reasonable is that you don't do this
    very often, and it's probably cheaper to buy sealed bearings every
    five years than pay a bike shop to repack them once a year. If you
    do  your  own  maintenance, the advantage is less maintenance, and
    possibly more reliability and protection from sand.

--David

    Sealed hubs  can  be  serviced  by  pulling  out  the  old bearing
    cartridges  and  replacing  them.  For some models this requires a

There is much marketing hype about "Sealed Bearings". They are refering to any
attempt to keep dirt from getting into the bearings. This can be a rubber
O-ring to a piece of felt inside a dust cap. 

Cartridge bearings are the only true *sealed* bearings. Although the other 
claim to be sealed, they're not anywhere near the level of cartridge type
units. They will last without maintenance for YEARS. I know of a set of wheels
that where built with a set of Suntour cartridge bearing hubs. The finish was
all pitted on the hub and not shine would ever come from them again, BUT when
you held them by the axle and gave them a spin, they spun like new Dura Ace.

Tom

    
    Bad news about the Performance cartridge bottom brackets.  I thought 
    I would try one on my road bike.  I called about the Pro model 3 
    (fits Shimano).  They didn't have any left and are not going to carry 
    them anymore.  So I will be calling Santana.  When I ordered my Shimano
    Ultegra tandem group from them it came with cartridge bottom brackets.
    
    If you are careful you can service cartridge bearings (sort of).  If 
    you have a slim pen knife or better yet a screwdriver to tighten eye
    glasses the rubber seal can be peeled back.  Then take a grease gun 
    with a needle tip and inject fresh grease.  Also for mountain bikes
    where the bottom bracket and hubs sometimes get submerged put a bead
    of silicone tub sealer around the axle against the cartridge.  Just 
    don't force it into the bearings.  I suppose you could also take a 
    finger of grease and smear it around the axle also.
    
    							Norm
    
    

    The Cateye Micro is currently on sale from Nashbar.  The price at the
    local (to the Eastern Massachusetts crew) Nashbar outlet store is
    24.90, although I'd check to make sure they still have some left.  I
    believe the latest catalogue price is roughly the same, 26.90 rings a
    bell.
    
    Leslie

    re: servicing cartridge bearings, I would expect that by the time a
    sealed cartridge bearing needed grease, it would be time to replace it. 
    By peeling back the seal, you introduce dirt.  The bearings are cheap,
    as they are standard off-the-shelf items.  Admitedly, there is the
    labor or tool cost to consider as well.  How significant can the cost
    be, if you only have to do it once every 5 or 6 years?
    
    barry

>    re: servicing cartridge bearings, I would expect that by the time a
>    sealed cartridge bearing needed grease, it would be time to replace it.

    I think that in .7 they were talking about servicing BB bearings
    that weren't made anymore.

    I haven't looked at BB cartidges closely, but I'd bet that
    inside of it is really a commercially available bearing.
    The tricky part will be getting it back on the spindle
    in the right place.
    Look in the yellow pages under Bearings.


    Recently I decided to replace a cartidge bearing in my specialized
    hub, and stopped by Action Bearings in Brighton MA.  They simply
    read the number off the dust seal, and found me a replacement from stock.
    The bad news is that they ask $7.40 for a bearing, where it was
    about $5 in the bike catalogs.

-Jeff Bell

>                      -< don't unseal sealed cartridges >-

But if you unseal a cartridge, regrease it, and get another 2 years out 
of it before it grinds itself to death from the dirt you allowed in, 
you're still ahead of the game, eh? Certainly can't hurt anything; not 
like loose bearings where you can damage the cones and races.

    
    re:9 { Don't unseal cartridge bearings }
    
    The bottom bracket bearings in my Klein mountain bike lasted about 5
    months.  They are cartridge bearings that are press fit into the bottom
    bracket shell.  After five months I could not turn the spindle with
    my fingers(after the cranks were off).  There was absolutely no grease
    left.  If I had peeled back the seal and squirted in some grease I am
    sure they would have lasted much longer.  So just replace them, right?
    Wrong!  The bearings can be bought readily but the special tool needed
    cost $100.00.  I couldn't find a bike shop with the tool.  Finally Bike
    World in Greenfield Ma. decided to purchase the tool.  Five months later
    they recieved the tool.  Total cost for new bearings and installation.
    $31.00.  Since then I have been regreasing them and using the silicone
    sealing method.  They are just like brand new.  I use a toothbrush and
    a mild solvent to clean the rubber seal before I regrease them so no
    dirt inside.  After regreasing I put some Armor All on the seal so it
    doesn't dry out.  
    
       

   .12 makes some interesting points...

   I've had a couple of Phil Woods bottom bracket bearings go bad - it
   took me about a year to wear out each one, but I do ride year round
   in all kinds of weather.  It's very likely that they would have
   lasted if I'd regreased them.

   However, the Performance bearing (did someone say they are no longer
   available??) is a lot cheaper and the mounting caps have an extra
   seal as well.  I've had one for over a year and it still works!

   I don't like the idea of sealed hub bearings at all - a set of wheels
   I bought with them had the bearings go bad, while Campy hubs I have had
   for *years* are still working fine with just one repacking each spring.
   It must be easier to repack a hub than chase around trying to find a
   shop that can properly press in a new bearing!

   Other people have mentioned extremely sandy environments, that may present
   a unique problem.

   - Jim

Admittedly, obtaining the bearing is only a small part
of the replacement problem.  Ideally all bike shops have
every tool necessary to anything to any bike.  I have 
heard of cases where sealed cartridge bearings left the
manufacturer without lubricant.  Its interesting that there
hasn't been much comment here about the drag that the seals
on these bearing cause.  I recall there was alot of debate
about it when they were first introduced.  My experience is
that it is of little consequence, is that what others have 
found?  FWIW, I'm NOT looking forward to the time that my
Mavic BB needs new bearings!

     I've got a ZIPP disk with sealed bearings. I just got a Merlin
    that has a sealed bearing BB plus my Chris King headset has
    sealed bearings. I found that the bearings required a "run-in"
    time and then loosened up. I know the BB on the Merlin will
    require that "run-in" time as well.
    
     Just my experience. I'm sure they've come a long way since first
    introduced...
    
      Chip

I have both Phil hubs and Bullseye and found that the Bullseye are easier to
change the bearings on than Phil.  Phil hubs require a press and a special tool;
Bullseye use motor bearings that are held in by a collar with allen set screw.
Sealed motor bearings are better than bearings behind separate seals, at least
less prone to getting dirt in them.  The mainenance is to replace the motor
bearings, not to attempt to fix what was not intended.

From a ride perspective both are good and I would recommend either.  I 
maintained two sets of wheels when I was commuting on a bicycle so I could
afford time to work on a wheel without losing use of the bicycle.

          > Sealed is great, but grease guard is best >

     I have a Manitou mountain bike with over 5000 off road miles in the
     last two years. It came with sealed bearings in the hubset and a
      Wilderness Trail Bikes grease guard bottom bracket. I have been through
     several sets of hub bearings, but the BB is fine. It is pretty amazing
     to filth that oozes out of the ol bearings when you lube the BB. Talk
     about easy matinence, this is it. Suntour makes a grease guard bottom
     bracket now that lubes through the ends of the crank bolts. I put one
     on my dale that I built because you can't pass up a 300 dollar frame deal
     and sleep at night. For a bike that is ridden all year and needs a high
     avalibility there is no substitute for grease guard!!!
      <:*)=   ray

    Here are my experiences with sealed hubs and bottom brackets.

    I bought a pair of touring wheels with Mavic sealed hubs. The hubs run
    as smooth as butter for three years, then the spindle in the rear wheel
    broke (for no particular reason). I tried all sorts of things but I
    could not get either end of the broken spindle out of the hub. So I
    took it back to the shop and they could not repair it either. However,
    they did sell me a replacement wheel at half-price. Now, five years
    later, the hub is still running, but there is some roughness there.
    From my previous experience it is impossible to get the hub apart, so I
    guess I'll have to live with the roughness. The front hub is still
    running as smooth as butter after eight years.

    The best sealed bottom-bracket I had was a Stronglight one. It ran very
    smoothly for five years and then packed up completely quite suddenly. I
    replaced it with a cheap (10 pounds) FAG unit which is made of plastic.
    This has no means of adjustment and there was always a small amount of
    play in the bearing. After a year the play increased beyond a point I found
    acceptable, so that one hit the dustbin. I now have a so-called sealed
    bearing that came with a Shimano chain-set I bought about a year ago.
    This is in fact just a conventional bearing with a plastic seal. It can
    be dismantled and serviced in the usual way. After a year it is still
    giving excellent service (and I haven't even got round to re-greasing
    it yet!)