Conference noted::bicycle

    Some second-hand info:
    
    I stopped into my local bike shop last week to pick up some Merlin
    brochures.  While I was there I talked to another customer who
    recently bought a Merlin.  He couldn't stop raving about the bike.
    He previously owned a DeRosa and said the ride of the Merlin was unlike
    any bike he has ever been on.  "Smooth as silk yet plenty of stiffness
    when he needed it."  The bike shop owner also said that the Merlin has
    given them far less maintenance problems than the Kestral.
    
    

Chip,
	Bicycle Alley in Worcester has sold quite a few Merlin's. From what I
have heard from the owners I've bumped into, the Merlin's are a great frame.
I'm wondering how much of a difference there really is between the C-dale and
the Merlin in ride feel. Is it really that much better a material or is it the
high price/technoweenie-est thing out there and thats why its selling.

	Last time I was at BA they had a Merlin with Mavic components in the 
show room. Maybe you could see if they have one you can demo...???    
                                                            
Tom_who_loves_PAINTED_frames_and_lusts_after_a_Serotta_Colo_II_just_because_of
   _the_paint_job ;-)

     Hey Tom, how's tricks? Showin' up for the Mt. Wachusett assault?????
    
     Inputs I've received are that the MERLIN is stiff (almost as stiff
    as a C DALE, but without the hard ride). I think titanium absorbs
    road shock better...
    
     Also, I know of one that was built with a Kestrel 200 EMS fork up
    front... The owner says the ride is phenominal... But, that fork is
    a $350.00 item YEEEOOOOW!!!!! They come with a PRISM frame...
    
      Chip

    
    
    Chip,
    
    Eddie B's Subaru/Montgomery team rides all Merlins on both road
    and track.  I talked to a few people at the Track Nat's this year
    and they all loved the frame.  Even prople like Ken Carpenter (6'4"
    / 225 lbs) uses a merlin for matched sprints.  
    
    If you want to try one you might call Brian Griffith at Wheels of
    Wellesley (617-235-4371).  He gets most of the referal business
    from the Merlin factory.  Brian also rides a Merlin and usually
    has his bike in the shop.  (you may, however, have to leave your
    car for collateral)
    
    If you really want to see what's going on, you could probably visit
    the factory in Somerville.  It's Merlin Metalworks and their number
    is (617)-628-7855.  Most of the people there are really into racing.
    Good luck.
    
    Regards,
    Mark
    

     Thanks for all the help so far folks...
    
        Chip

    >	Thanks for all the help so far folks...
    >
    >	   Chip
    
    
    	So far? Oh, I get it. When you get the Merlin, you're gonna
    	ask us to help pay for it. 8-)>
    
    	Scott (My wife ain't gonna like this)

     Aw come on... I'll foot the frame, you guys foot the C RECORD
    dress-out... Otay???   :-)
    
     Sheesh, I thought we were supposed to stick together...
    
       The Panhandler...

    I'll buy the aero brake cables.
    
    %-)
    
    ed

    
      I'll buy the Handlebar tape !
             
      John C.
    

I'll chip in for the titanium valve-stems.....

                           ken

I'll spring for the caps to keep the cable ends from fraying

     Nobody signing up for the air in the tubes???? :-)

    On a quality bike like that, you shouldn't stoop to using air.
    Fill the tires with helium!
    
    MATT

>     Nobody signing up for the air in the tubes???? :-)

    It's like you're getting plenty of air from this notesfile.
      (Hot air at that)
      (( that's good, cuz it weighs less))

    -Jeff Bell

    re:"     Nobody signing up for the air in the tubes???? :-)"
    
    Hey, we're not cheap.
    
    %-)
    
    ed
    

    Why go  low  tech? I just read an article in Cycling Science about
    Huffy's  serious  bike.  It's  an outgrowth of their work building
    bikes  for  the US olympic team in 84. The Triton is fully custom,
    not  only  in  geometry, but also in the layup of the carbon fiber
    and kevlar frame tubes. Each tube is calculated to provide side to
    side stiffness for pedaling, and simultaneously some vertical flex
    to make the ride more comfortable. It's supposed to be a fantastic
    frame.  Depending  on  components,  it  costs  between  8  and  10
    thousand dollars.

--David

	I agree with .16

	Chip...Go BIG or Go home

     The only thing that belongs to HUFFY on those bicycles is the
     HUFFY decal. Same thing with their racing team... a rose by
     any other name (so to speak)... Besides, Kevlar/Carbon fiber
     is as "old news" as titanium
    
     Will they be offering these along with their other lines at
     K Mart???  :-)
    

    Re; Going home... Sheesh, I may leave the impression that
        money is no object, but it's a B-I-G object... Most
        of my neat stuff showed up at Christmas.
    
        This is a total stretch, but "sometimes you've just got
        to say f*ck it"... (quote from Risky Business)
        
        Chip
                      

    Hi there,
    
    I've been a Merlin road frame owner for 10 months and over 7,000 miles
    and I LOVE it. It is just about as near perfect as I have found.
    
    What makes the Merlin road frame so special is 3 things: metal, tube
    set and geometry.
    
    First, the alloy of titanium used is 3% aluminum, 2.5% vanadium, and
    94.5% titanium. This particular alloy has 50% greater tensile strength
    than steel and is at least as hard as steel. Second, the tube set used
    is aircraft and nuclear grade stock. Lastly, Tom Kellog's geometry is
    right on and makes for near-neuronic handling.
    
    Would I buy another? You bet! In fact, I want to ditch my two ther
    steel bikes and get another Merlin.
    
    Regards,
    
    GS
    
    

    Nuclear-grade stock?!

    I believe that some of the components of some nuclear weapons are made
    of titanium alloys.
    
    We can hope that there will be a glut of titanium on the market now
    that some delivery systems are being destroyed.  :-)  It's not all
    radioactive and if it were, you wouldn't need neon paints to get a good
    glow.
    
    ed

    Hi Merlin fans/owners:
    
    Gee, sounds like a frame to die for...  Question: Do they make racing
    tandems??
    
    Eric

     Gee, all this input has been great!! Thanks... I ordered mine :-).
    I'm smiling as I write this... 
    
     The tandom question is unkown, however I know they're constantly
    experimenting with frame ttypes and geometry. Man, I can't wait
    'till spring...
    
       Chip  :-)

    
    They do exist and I rode half of one.  I have never heard of a road
    version though.  The one I rode was an MTB.  Frame and fork weighed
    4.1 lbs.  Very easy to bunny hop if the two of us timed it right.
    
    						Norm
    
    
    

    Tandem frame and fork weighed 4.1 lbs?
    
    incredulous,
    ed

     Norm was kidding. He said he rode "half of one". Their ATB weighs
    in at that. A road frame is 2.9lbs... That means a tandem will be
    over 7lbs (I guess). What a card that FLYE-man is  :-)
    
     P.S. My frame ships next week... Excuse me while I go change my
          underwear......
    
           Chip

    Well, here's my guess.  I figure that a tandem frame will weigh
    3 to 4 or even 5 times the weight of a single frame of similar
    construction.  Therefore, my conjecture is at least 9 lbs and
    possibly even 12 or more, given that 2.9 was the real weight
    of frame and fork for a road frame.
    
    ed

    Just spoke to Ashley (The Prez) at Merlin.  First of all the frame in
    question weighs 6lbs 6oz (without the forks).  We will be trying out
    the tandem in a few weeks.  That is the only tandem that they have
    built so far.  The big question is can they build a tandem frame stiff
    enough for road racing?  We will be brain-storming then.  Keep you
    informed...
    
    Eric

     TITANIUM  is the metal that surpasses chro-mo and Columbus tubing
    by a million miles. Fatigue life, tensile strength, stiffness and
    road shock are unparelled by this material. I can't speak from
    personal experience, but all reports and experience report that
    THE material is a miracle. 
    
     We're defintely getting into an area that will draw "subjective"
    opinions, but I'm here to say that I do have experience in aluminum,
    chromoly and VaLite tubing. I'll be posting my titanium experience
    by next March (if Mother Nature - The B*tch) let's me. Naturally, the
    major component group WILL BE CAMPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
     I hope no one takes offense, but I'll stay pure. Olive Oil for lub-
    rication and Latin for the discouraging word... {:-)}
    
     Chip
    
     JAP-OUT to the rest of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!     :-)

    I ride a Merlin MTB and its great. I find that it tracks very well. The
    Bike is also very resonsive. However the bike is equiped with an IRD
    Expidition Titanium fork (300+$) and the fork makes the ride.
    
    Tomas

    6lbs 6oz, plus fork.  Wow.  Seriously, I'm impressed.  Does it have a
    marathon tube or any other "extra" diagonal tube?
    
    Was the 2.9 mentioned earlier, frame and fork or frame alone?  I had
    assumed frame and fork.
    
    Waiting for reports, :-b
    
    ed

     The road frame was listed as 2.9lbs. with the fork (high end
    aluminum). I ordered mine without the fork and will get a
    Kestrel 200 EMS fork ($350.00). There's a guy who has one 
    on his MERLIN and said the combination is a KILLER plus the
    composite fork is lighter than the aluminum.
    
     Chip
    
    P.S. On weight: At least that's the way the brocure read.
    
    

    I am lucky enough to own a Merlin Racing and a Merlin Tandem (both
    built by my son who works at Merlin).  I don't have the bucks.  There
    is nothing in the world that rides like titanium!  It is stiff but it
    does not transmit the road shocks.  I ride all sorts of roads here in
    Maine and those bikes are the most comfortable things that I have ever 
    ridden.
    
    The road bike is fitted out with Mavic and I love it.  It is definitely
    the ultimate!!!!  The tandem is fitted out with MTB equipment and is great. 
    The tandem was and experiment and not ever considered for production.
    It started out as a joke present and grew from there.  I can tell you
    that the frame doesn't weigh anywhere near what has been mentioned
    here.  Because I put it on my roof rack several times a week and I 
    am not that strong.  I would guess that the frame weighs in a t less
    than 20# with fork.  We have riddren it only on roads due to the 
    capabilities of the stoker.  She is not ready for off road.
    
    I can tell you that you will l_o_v_e the new bike and it will be
    worth every thing you put into it!

    re: .34
    
    Well, we are certainly looking forward to trying out the MTB tandem in a
    few weeks (We assume that it's the same one mentioned earlier...)
    
    Eric & Nancy

I know I'm going to regret this, but......

How much do these bikes cost?

    	Ks

    
      A Merlin road frame with fork goes for $1575.00.
    
      I got that price from Bicycle Alley in Worcester.
    
      I'm only abour $1200.00 dollars short myself.
      anyone want to donate?  ;-)
    
      John C.
    

I knew I was going to regret that question..... :-{

     GOT IT!
    
      YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
        CHIP

    
    
      Good show Chip,
    
      Now,  try not to break it or loose it.
    
      P.S.  So what kind of handlebar tape do you want?
    
      John C.
    

     Re; Handlebar tape... GUCCI!
    
         Chip 

    Congrats!!
    
    Now, get it out of your hot little hands and get your *ss on it and
    ride till you drop  (we'll pick the bike up...)
    
    Eric

    Re; 43...Boy don't I wish I had the dough to get it all together and
    and hit the road this season. All I'm able to do with it right now
    is fondle it and...
    
    Update: I have ordered the Kestrel 200 EMS fork through Landry's in
    Westboro (black). I've never owned a $350.00 fork before. It's
    gauranteed for at least one first place next season :-). I'm also
    waiting for my Chris King headset (in black). As soon as this stuff 
    shows up it'll be installed.
    
    I'll be going C Record. I have a lot of the stuff I'll be moving over
    from my old set-up.
    
     Man, I'm vibrating!!!!
    
     Chip

    Nancy and I went over to Merlin's last night.  Seeing all those
    titanium frames about made me dribble...
    
    Tried the MTB tandem.  What a fun bike to ride.  Nancy, riding stocker,
    could feel the flex but then again, that was their intention for off
    rode.  I was REALLY impressed by it's light weight.  Lifting it from
    the captain's stem and seat, I couldn't believe it when the WHOLE bike
    came off the ground.  Didn't notice the excess weight on the stocker's
    end.  WOW!!!  Their R&D palte is full right now but we'll be talking
    again after Xmas.
    
    Now, I'm trying to talk myself out of retiring my own frame for a
    Merlin - You really can't afford one - But I WANT ONE.  Sorry,
    schizophrenia setting in - No, it's not...
    
    I like the poster they have.  A cross-cut shot of the seat post area
    with the caption:  Inspect our Private Parts.
    
    Eric

     Well, I had my Chris King headset and the Kestrel 200EMS fork 
    (black) installed on Wednesday.... Awesome.
    
     Pricey stuff, but the combination makes the headset virtually
    impervious to the elements... The headset has sealed cartridges
    and the fork is sealed at the bottom (minus the usual hole)
    on top of it being composite.
    
     Man, I can't wait 'till spring (or when the roads dry up)!!!!!
    
     Chip

    If anybody got a chance to look at page 9 of yesterday's Boston Herald 
    (one of the most respected newspapers in the world...) - suburban edition, 
    you can get a glimpse of Merlin's tandem mountain bike.  Mind you, it's a
    frontal shot so you really can't tell but, by gosh, the riders are, in
    my humble opinion, the finest looking cyclists...
    
    The article was with respect to the presentation of a check for $1.3m 
    to the Dana Farber Cancer Institute from the PMC.  A few errors by 
    the Herald includes:
    
    - there wasn't 500 people who rode in the 8 mile parade - more like 80.
    
    - The top "heavy hitter" did not raise $3,700 but $37,000 (what's a
      zero?) 
    
    - Nancy and I did not do the 194 mile ride with the mountain tandem but
      with a road tandem.

    re:"One step away from the Inquirer... "
    
    Now, let's be fair to the Herald.
    
    The Inquirer would have had something like: "Tandem Captain gives birth
    during 194 mile race with stoker acting as midwife -- and they Won the
    Race"
    
    :-)
    
    ed

    re: "Tandem Captain gives birth during 194 mile race with stocker as
         midwife -- and they Won the Race"
    
    That's to lame.  It should be:
    
    Liz Taylor gives birth to 2-headed baby on tandem during 194 mile
    bicycle race.  Elvis seen helping as midwife.  Team wins Race.
    
    Eric

    Ok, it's about time I spilled my beans.  I got a Merlin just before
    Xmas (but didn't ride it until after the Holidays).  I LOVE IT!!  (I
    better, considering the $$ forked out).  As Chip, I got the Kestrel EMS
    200 forks (black) and equiped it with Campy (La crema de la crema) C
    Record.  I was going to go Ultegra but figured, what the hell...  Plus
    I wanted to try the 8-speed cassette.  WHAT A BEAUTY!!  
    The only Japanese parts on the bike is the clipless pedals (Shimano) and
    the clamp for the braze-on front derailleur (Shimano).  Hey Chip,
    I don't know about you, but I had to gring the clamp to fit the
    Campy derailleur.
    
    Bottom line:  20� lbs with Scott clip-ons AND pump.
    
    Ride:  I haven't noticed any flex when climbing.  
    
    Eric
    
    P.S.:  All I need now is a Kryptonite lock to mount on my seat tube...

     Great update!!! I'm glad you like it so much. I can't wait!!! I
    haven't installed the fron derailleur yet because I was waiting
    for my crank set. It came in yesterday. That means I'll be a cellar
    dweller this Saturday. I can complete the entire machine with the
    exception of the saddle.
    
     Eric, what specifically did you have to grind????? By the way, the
    only things Japanese I'll have on mine is the computer and the 
    Simano clamp-on to braze-on clamp.
    
     Gotta admit, you got me vibrating with the stellar report!!!!!!!!!
    
       Chip

    Chip,
    
    It will become quite obvious when you try to match the derailleur into
    the groove of the clamp (assuming you got the same clamp as I got). 
    The clamp's groove isn't long enough for the derailleur to fit so you
    will have to grind the to top part of the clamp to create a longer
    groove.  It's hard to explain but it is easy to notice.  The fit just
    wont feel right.  Tell me how it turns out.  If you have problems or
    don't have a grinder, stop by at Chelmsford Cyclery, they did a great
    job in less than 1 minute.
    
    BTW, I just put a Ciclomaster IIa computer on the Merlin.  It's a nice
    install.  Haven't put it to the test yet...
    
    Eric

    Thanks for the inputs Eric. I'm not familiar with the Cyclomaster?
    computer. Anything different about it???
    
     Chip

    I just talked to the president of Merlin Metalworks last night and she
    told me that Lemond's team will be trying out Merlins today in France. 
    Apparently they are unhappy with the team's current frame builder and
    are considering Merlin as a replacement.
    
    Has anybody else heard any of this?
    
    Eric 

     I've been saying LeMond has been using my equipment for quite
    a while :-)....
    
    
      Chip

    All the photo's I've seen of bikes that l'equipe Z (I just cannot bring
    myself to say Z-team) use are heavily marked as being `Greg Lemond'
    bikes (which of course says nothing to do with where they really come
    from...)
    
    Rod

    Z use French-made TVT carbon frames at the moment.
    
    
    Rod (the other one)

    HOT OFF THE PRESS::
    
    SOMEWHERE IN THE FRENCH ALPS (EF).  Greg Lemond and the Z Team will be
    riding Merlin Titanium bicycles for the 1991 racing year.  Lemond, 3
    time winner of the Tour de France is confident that the team will post
    the best results ever with the American-made bicycle.  Lemond could not
    comment on the extra performance gained from the Merlin because his 
    face was still frozen in a smiling state due to excessive speed while 
    riding the new bicycle.
    
    On a related issue, it is still unknown whether John Lee Ellis, 1991
    RAAM entrant, will be riding a Merlin for this year's competition.  
    When reached for comments, he stated, "...only if my mommy increases 
    my weekly allowance".
    
    Eric_junior_reporter_Frere

>>    SOMEWHERE IN THE FRENCH ALPS (EF).  Greg Lemond and the Z Team will be
>>    riding Merlin Titanium bicycles for the 1991 racing year.  Lemond, 3
  
Gee I wonder what components he'll hang on 'em. If it's C-Record there'll
be no shutting up Chip. :-)

T

    And they'll be EVEN MORE EXPENSIVE.
    
    MATT

    
    
      Matt you read my mind.
    
      I am saving for one but if they go up any more it simply won't 
     be worth it.  Even if Greg hand delivers it to me.
    
     Imagine this.  Man win TDF on a bicycle built in Somerville?
    
     John C.
    

      It's too late Tom. I already can't live myself! I would hope
     he'd stay with C Record this year too! I read in Bicycling
    that even Mercyx is putting the Italian stuff on his top 
    models.
    
     The thing that bothers me the most is I'll bet MERLIN comes
    out with decals on their newer models with LeMond's name.
    
     Now I'll have to go out and get another frame! :-)
    
     I can't get away without a remark and disappoint some folks but...
    
     I knew it was only a matter of time before they came to their
    senses and went MERLIN (and American!) Sorry folks, I had to do it.
    
      Chip

Chip,

Just get the decal...

    >TdF winner with a bicycle made in Somerville
    
    Next thing you'll know they'll organize the Tds - Tour de Somerville -
    Talk about a challenge...
    
    Eric_Merlin_owner_WITH_8_speed_C_Record
                           ^
                           |
    Chip, had to rub it in...

    
<<    Next thing you'll know they'll organize the Tds - Tour de Somerville -
<<    Talk about a challenge...
    
	they all ready have, except it's Somerville, NJ. It's one of the older
	races in the US, held on the Monday of Memorial Day weekend.

	-tom (who grew up in FLemington, NJ, about 15 miles away)

     "Get the decal"... Hmmmm, why didn't I think of that?
    
     Chip with_only_6_speeds_but_then_how_many_does_man_really_need? :-)
    
     Yeah Eric, I'm jealous...
    
    
        Chip

     What's almost as good as sex?
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
                   
    
    
         RIDING A MERLIN WITH AN EMS FORK...YEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!
    
     I've been ridin' the thing and I can't believe how comfortable
    it is. And the BB is just as stiff as my C Dale ever was (is).
    Man, I would recommend the frivolous piece of exotica to anyone.
    
      Chip

    
    Chip,
    
    I have been testing a bike with an EMS fork.  They are supposed
    to be very good at soaking up road-shock.  Have you found this to
    be so, or can you distinguish between the fork's and the frame's
    ride-characteristics?
    
    -john

    John,
    
    I have the same combo frame/fork as Chip.  Although I've never tried an
    EMS fork sans Merlin frame, I find that my shoulders are a lot less
    sore after a long ride.  I think that much of this is attributable to
    the fork.
    
    Chip, are you there or having an affair with your bike?
    
    Eric
    
    P.S. Imagine riding the Merlin with Campy 8-speed...

    	New issue of BICYCLING has a test-ride of a Merlin Titanium.
    
    	Thumbs Up:
    
    		Quite possibly the ultimate bike frame
    		Mavic parts are excellent
    
    	Thumbs Down:

    		It's such a hassle to take a second mortgage
    
    	Scott 8-)>

    Chip,
    	I've been drooling as I've read the replys to this note.  Now that
    you have put some miles on the Merlin what sort of performance
    improvements have you noticed?  Are you now pulling away from riders
    who dropped you last year?  Or are they all on Merlins now too.  I'm
    just curious as to the difference riding a top of the line bike makes
    vs. a mid-range model.  Of course I know you'll never quite be at the
    top of the line until you install the 8 speed cluster :-)
    
    Don

     Yea, you're right... I'm still stuck in the parochial friction
    6sp mode... I'm getting better though. 
    
     The issue in Bicycling described (really didn't) the ride as best as
    I can offer an explanation. The things I've noticed (differences) are
    the comfort of the ride itself. Road shock is minimal, but flex is
    not something you really notice either. I'm not sure how much the
    Kestrel EMS fork contributes to the ride (probably a lot), but it's
    a great feel.
    
     Pounding the pedals is exactly as described. You notice a little flex
    when you start, but the frame seems to rise to beating and settles
    down. We're not talking a steel type flex either. I've notice how
    mushy steel flex can be. This isn't a mushy feel. More a controlled
    feel. It's really hard to explain... It reacts extremely well
    (geometry-wise), corners well, feels like a good climber (I was
    impressed with how climbing felt with  my C Dale 3.0 frame 2yrs.
    ago, but the MERLIN blows it away). It's very light so you can
    really feel the blast of acceleration (really neat)
    
     It does feel like the last frame I'll ever own. I can't see myself
    doing anything else. Even composites don't turn me on anymore (I was
    seriously considering the Kestrel EMS for a while).
    
     Nope... It's metal for this boy. If you can do it, DO IT!!!! You
    won't be sorry (ever, ever, ever...)
    
     The price has either skyrocketed over the past few months or something
    is wrong. They quoted prices $200.00 - $300.00 above the retail. I
    got mine at a better price than a good deal.
    
     I am going to have get some LeMond decals though. I knew he'd come 
    around... He's been using my equipment all along. He finally woke
    up to the right frame set. 
    
     Did you see also the article on Team Z (15 MERLINS) bought for the
    team by LeMond? Subaru/Montgomery is already riding them. My guess
    is this will probably drive the prices up even more...
    
     Chip

    What's interesting about the article on Lemond buying the 15 Merlin
    frames is that he actually had to PAY for them.  No co-sponsorship,
    nothing.  He did get it for wholesale price however.
    
    Small correction:  Greg did not follow in Chip's footsteps.  Don't you
    think that it's a bit TOO much of a coincidence that he is using
    8-speed cassette... ;-)
    
    Eric

     I'll concede the cassette thing... I  was talking more of his switch
    from MAVIC back to C RECORD (+ THE MERLIN)...
    
     Boy, you gotta watch every word you put down on bits around here :-)...
    
     Another thing, am I ever gonna here the end of only running 6spds....?
    I'll get it, I'll get... I just need to trash my current wheel
    collection... ;-) 
    
     Uhhhh, whaddya need all those speeds for anyway???????????????????
    
    
     Real men used fixed gears (I read that somewhere...)
    
        Chip

    
>     Another thing, am I ever gonna here the end of only running 6spds....?
>    I'll get it, I'll get... I just need to trash my current wheel
>    collection... ;-) 
    
Go ahead and trash your current wheel collectiong.  I'm looking for a nice 
threaded set of lightweight sew ups.  Let me know when your trash gets 
collected.

     Looking at the prices on the 8spd stuff... cassette, chain, hubs,
    derailleur, it may be a while... I hope maybe next year (Income Tax
    check)... I'll need two wheels - training and racing... Mass
    Millions would solve all my problems...
    
     Chip_who_wishes_he_could_afford_to_give_'em_away... 

    
    Speaking of Bicycling articles and speeds ("6 or 8?"), check
    out the picture of Fausto Coppi pursuing Bertoli (sp?)...
    Coppi has some sort of rear derailler, but the other man
    only has some weird device under the chainrings.
    
    -john

      I was at a race this weekend and got a chance to talk to Mike
    McCarthy of Subaru Montgomery and he says "Best bike I ever had" of
    the Merlin. Do you think he meant it or is he paid to say that?
    
    Anyways I think I would like to consider buying a Merlin. I would 
    need a 61 cm, anyone out there have that size of Merlin? Someone
    told me that the larger Merlins are wipppy. Then someone else told
    me that problem had been taken care of by increasing the down tube
    diameter. Anyone know about this?
    
    
    What is the largest size this frame comes in? Are different geometries
    available or are they all the same? If the frame is crashed and bent/
    broken can it be repaired?
    
    
    
    
                                                    Thanks for all replies
                                                          Wayne V

     61 cm is the largest off-the-rack size they do. They do repairs
    (they boast most in one day). The seat tube  is 1.250" so that's
    oversized already... I don't know about the down tube, but I can't
    imagine it being whippier than ChroMoly or Columbus...
    
     McCarthy wouldn't lie. MERLIN does not sponsor or do donations. They
    would have paid wholesale for their machines...
    
    
     I  love mine!
    
       Chip

	
	re -.1

	Merlin does sponser Subaru Montgomery and provide them with
	free frames. There was an article in velo news stating the
	reason Lemond had to buy frames (at wholesale) was because they
	were already providing frames to Subaru.

	As far as McCarthy's praise for the frame I'm sure it's true.
	I talked to Nate Reiss after a race here in Colorado and he said
	he loved the frame, but wouldn't want to have to buy one.

     Ooooops, you're right about Suburu... Buy one anyway...
    
     Chip

    The situation with Merlin and "Z" is similar to Serotta and 7-Eleven. 
    Neither Merlin or Serotta supplied frames for free because neither are
    the "official" team sponsor.  7-Eleven rode Huffy bikes (which they
    contracted Serotta to build).  LeMond (the corporation, not the man
    (child?)) is the official bicycle supplier to "Z".  They have
    contracted Merlin and Carbonframes (a small outfit located in South San
    Francisco, CA) to build their bikes.  So "Z" will officially be riding
    Greg LeMond bikes.  But we know what they really are.

    Re: .82
    
    ...the Merlin/Lemond bikes will have a Merlin decal on them...
    
    Eric

      I'm still thinkin about it. If the DEC stock would just hit about
    .... $/share. So should I get the aluminum fork that comes with it or
    get a composite fork. Has anyone tried both? Does the composite fork
    have the Vitus affect - that is vibration while braking on a downhill.
    From the note I have seen you guys have the:
                        1) aluminum fork commonly supplied with it.
                        2) Kestrel EMS fork
                        3) a titanium fork?
    
     I am suprized at the titanium fork being available since I thought you
     would not be able to bend titanium in the shape of a bike fork.
     Are ther any other forks you can use?
    
                                                             Wayne V
            

     As far as I know, they don't do titanium forks. I did read somewhere
    that LeMond has asked MERLIN to develop one...
    
     If you're askin' I'm tellin'... go composite. It's lighter, it's
    "roady" qualities are better and there is absolutely no chatter.
    I know this becuase I have braked at 50mph running down Mt. Wachusett.
    
     The fork they do supply is top shelf (SR)... Understand that you're
    going to sink about $375.00 for a Kestrel EMS. You could go cheaper
    with some other lower grade Kestral composite fork. My guess is that
    there probably wouldn't be a "world of difference" and you'd save some
    money.
    
     Good Luck and DO IT if you can!
    
            Chip

    
    Gary Smith (DPDMAI::SMITH) showed up here last month in Charlotte 
    with his Merlin, graced with a (custom) titanium fork.
    
    -john

    
    
      I heard about a Spectrum frame which is a custom built Merlin built
    specifically by Kellog himself. Anybody know anything about them?
    
    
                                                       Thx
                                           Wayne (saving his lunch money) V
    

     It's true, although the roadie Merlins carry his moniker.
    
        Chip

Wayne,

Yes, Kellog, when not making Corn Flakes, has a line of titanium frames.  Unless things 
have changed, Merlin does not build custom bikes because of the agreement with
Kelogg (they cannot modify the specs developed by Kelogg - not even add 
braze-ons for internal cabling).

The bopttom line, if you want/need a custom-built frame, buy a Spectrum.  If you
can get away for a production fram, go Merlin.  Of course, this only applies
for road frames.

Eric

BTW, I hear that there is a 6-week backlog at Merlin... Business must be hoping!

    they're hoping it's hopping
    
    couldn't resist
    
    ed

    
    At PBP, Ed Pavelka, a fellow cyclist staying at the FIAPAD,
    had a custom Merlin randonneur frame, if I recall correctly.
    Its fork and stays were wide enough to accept fenders.
    He said it gave an ideal ride for such an event.
    
    -john
    
    (See more in PBP in note I'm about to post...)

     I know MERLIN does a great deal of experimental design. In fact,
    they strongly motivate their builders to do so. Once they're
    "done" riding the thing it generally gets sold and ends up out
    there. Ususally it goes to a family member, friend, etc... and
    ends up out there in someone else's hands, eventually.
    
     Someone mentioned earlier that they don't do custom stuff, but I'll
    bet if the right offer is made they would (and evidently have).
    
     I think they even built a tandem and I think someone at DEC has it.
    
       Chip

Chip,

I know that a Merlin employee has a father "DECCIE" but I don't know if the 
father has a tandem.  The only one that I know of is the MTB that I rode last 
year.  Rob Vandermark owns it (The frame is shown on his shoulder in one of the 
Merlin ads).

Yes, they do a lot of experimenting with frames.  But, so far, all that I've 
seen is in the MTB area.  An offer to put internal cable braze-ons at whatever 
the price was made to Merlin but turned down.  I thought that it had something
to do with the time needed to do this job - time that they don't have - but
was told that they can't mess with Tom Kelogg's design.  Not 100% sure though.

Eric

Hey Chip,

Guess what I saw??

A special edition (200 only) Ultralight Merlin (geometry by Rob Vandermark). 

Now, one may wonder, how much light can you go?  Well, by using thinner tubing
walls and changing the geometry to keep the same stiffness, they were able to 
reduce the weight by 1/2 lbs (to 2 1/2 lbs).  You can really feel the difference
in weight.

Don't know the $ though.  Already 50 sold.

Eric

P.S.  For Sale: 1 slightly used Merli...

     Wow! If I bring another frame home within a year, she'll have
    me locked up!
    
     But wait, maybe if I sell....
    
        Chip

    Chip, I'll buy it,
    
    $200 do ??? Thereagain Graham would call me a poseur so perhaps I'll
    just stick to the Aele

     $200.00? Did I mention this bike has not been run over by a
    steam roller?   :-)
    
       Chip

    
    	Rod, I'm disappointed in you. All that good living in France has
    made you soft. Don't worry everyone, the Scottish winter will knock it
    out of him.
    
    Graham.
    

    
    
    Hi Guys
    
    
    I was just in Montreal yesterday for the World Cup race and ... WOW!
    I spent mucho time galking at the Merlins team Z were using. I think
    most of the team were using these except for GL who was using a carbon
    bike. The bikes were beautifully painted in a GL scheme. These were the
    new double butted Merlins. They are most noticable because of the very
    large diameter seat and chain stays. The seat stays I would say were
    about twice the diameter of normal. I think the top and down tube were
    also larger diameter than the first Merlin model. All the tube
    diameters seemed to be in proportion to each other making for a very
    sharp looking frame. I would expect that this frame would be sold naked
    (unpainted) like the other Merlin.
    
    So first there was the regular, standard, first Merlin (and I started
    saving my lunch money) and now there is this new (lighter, better
    looking, faster) double butted frame. I would hate to buy one and then
    find something even nicer just came out! Any ideas what else Merlin is
    working on? When did the first Merlin come out? Does Merlin have model
    numbers or names for these frames?
    
    I think I will apply for a raise in my lunch allowance.
           
    
    
                                               Yours in Possessionism
                                             Thanks for any Replies
                                           Wayne V
    
    P.S. I could say that GL packed half way yesterday but I wont since this is
    the Merlin note not the GL note and that would be off topic. :-)
                                      

      There really isn't a model# they advertise. They call it their
    road race frame (Tom Kellog's signature is in the chain stay).
    
     I did hear that a new "model" was offered from the design of another
    frame builder. I'm not sure how they will market it. My correspondence
    from them doesn't mention a choice of stuff...
    
      Chip

The double-butted tubing frame IS the Ultralight as mentioned in .94.  After 
re-reading the specs, I would like to make a correction.  The geometry is still 
by Tom Kellogg; it's the tubing that was designed by Rob Vandermark!!

I'm surprised to hear that the Z team has the ultralight.  I didn't think that 
they were available earlier in the year unless they were protos.

Although I've held one in my hands, I never had the chance to ride one...  My
Merlin climbs so nicely, I wonder how the Ultralight compares.

The only distingushing feature from each Merlin frame is the serial number on
the rear drop-out.

Eric (#2700)

     Gee, I'm feeling a neophyte-esque, Eric. I'll have to memorize
    my serial number too...  :-)
    
     Chip

    MOO:== Merlin on order
    
    
    
                                                          I Can't Wait
                                                             W.V.

     Oooooooooohhhhhh, YOU'RE GONNA LOVE IT!
    
     Please let us know how you're going to dress it out...
    
    
        Chip

    
    
       Well for sure I'm gonna put the C record index on it. I'm gonna wait
    to put the Ergopower on it though. I would like to hear more about that
    product first and probably let it prove itself. Other plans include a 
    Flight saddle, a Richie road stem, Chris King headset, someday a Titanium
    seat post and someday a Titanium bottom bracket spindle. Before I have
    the headset itstalled I think I am going to have the prism fork painted
    gloss black (what do ya think?).
       I should have the frame by January and I plan to build it up slowly
    to a ridable bike.
    
    
                                                          Mr possessionism
                                                             Wayne V

    
    What material is the Prism fork?
    
    -john

     The fork is aluminum. The brochure calls the color "ice blue". I had
    to look pretty hard to see the blue. Is is more a silver/chrome look.
    
                                                        Wayne V

    
    Gloss black sounds pretty good against a Merlin Titanium frame.
    Hot pink would make you fit right in to certain cycling cliques, 
    however.  :-)

     Black will look great. I have a black Kestrel EMS fork on mine and
    love it...
    
     I can't argue with the C Record choices either (right Eric!). I am
    also considering more titanium after-market products myself to include
    the new t-bottle cages...
    
     Good Luck,
    
                Chip

Holy Sh*T Wayne, you really are going for it.  Sounds like a good setup.  I 
would definitely wait for the Ergo.  I had the chance to try them out (but not
while riding) and thought that they were very VERY nice.  The group with Ergo is
available in the U.S. NOW (or so I hear).

Parts:  I got a chance to check out some titanium bottle cages.  At $75 a shot,
I quietly returned them to where they belong - I would hate to be called an 
eccentric...

Eric

     I know Colorado Cyclist is advertising the ERGO already. This probably
    won't come as a surprise, but I was entertaining the titanium cages...
    
     Okay, I'll admit it. I go beyond the eccentric... I do need
    professional help, but I guess I just don't care anymore :-)
    
      Chip

     I know Eric will jump on this! I just received my order form for
    the Arctos titanium stem... Very pricy, but absolutely beautiful
    along with the last stem you'll ever buy. Obviously, I'm on a
    mission of pure titanium :-)...
    
     A little information... The guy who builds these started MERLIN.
    His name is Gary Helfrich. The stam is machined from solid titanium
    billet, weighs less than the top of the line aluminum stems and
    is much stronger (approx. 70gr lighter)...
    
     Inforamtion on the BB spindle used by MERLIN...
    
     Anyway, before I call MERLIN I was just wondering if anyone knew. They
    really don't tell you much about the BB spindle.
    
    
        Chip the titanium junkie
     I haven't phoned MERLIN to ask, but does anyone (Eric) know who
    does their spindles? Probably my next move to titanium.
    
    

    Ok Chip, 
    
    I challenge you to buy a titanium saddle (not just the rails, the saddle 
    itself) !

	And don't go out without your titanium helmet......

     Hmmmm... a saddle and helmet. I could be the Titanium Knight!
    
     Before the saddle, however, I'd have to work on a titanium butt.
    Maybe there's a grafting technique I should look into... :-)
    
      Chip

Hey Chip,

Actually 3 people started Merlin, Gary, Gwen Jones and ??.  Gwen is the only one
that stayed on.

BB Spindle.  I may be wrong but I think that Merlin makes'em.

Titanium Stem:  Sounds Good Chip.  I'm getting those Bryne pedals next week 
		(finally).  We should go for a ride and compare toys...

Eric_who_wished_that_he_had_a_titanium_salary

     Hi  Eric... I agree about the titanium salary. I guess I should pay
    some bill and buy some necessary things, but... Ehhh, never mind she'll
    get over it.
    
     I guess I'll give the a call. While the outside faces of my bearings
    are a little rusty, the spindle is pristine (very uncommon for trad.
    steel spindles). So, I'm hoping it's titanium already...
    
     A ride sounds good. We'll hook sometime when the real season starts.
    
       Chip

    There's a company in the UK called Royce who make titanium bottom
    bracket units which sell for about �70. Some UK magazine gave it
    a very good review recently, said it was very light.
    
    
    Rod

    
    
       Hi Guys
    
    
    
    Funny thing Chip I was just talking to a few people about the Arctos
    stem and Ti BB spindles. What I heard was somewhat negative but it wont
    stop me I think. (turning into a Titanium addict). Anyways what I heard
    was:
    
    
     The Arctos stem is very very beautiful but impossible to get. The bike
    shop owner (who will do any special order for anyone) said he has had
    one on order since September and he has given up and let the customer
    have his money back. Apparently Gary H. is the only guy building the
    stems, he works alone, and has a huge backlog. After the recent flash
    in Bicycling mag he will be even busier. Chip what did you hear about
    the availability/time frame for these stems?
    
    Merlin sells a Ti BB spindle. The thing is made of a special patented
    grade of Titanium. I think the special grade is to reduce flex since
    this is the problem with all Ti BB spindles. Did anyone else hear
    anything about this?
    
    
    
    
                                                 Yours in possessionism
                                                      Wayne V
    
    
    

     I really believe that titanium (initially) got a bad rap. I think
    the alloys have eliminated all the problems.
    
     I haven't heard anything about the lead times but I sure do appreciate
    you letting me know. I will ask about it before I make the decision
    now.
    
     Did you mean that the frame is supplied  with the Ti BB or does it
    need to ordered?
    
     Thanks for inputs...
    
         Chip
    

    Speaking of "beyond," whatever happened to boron?
    
    Weren't they using boron for high-tech structural parts?
    Has it been superseded by carbon?
    What's the deal?
    
    -john

    
    
      re:120
    
       The Ti spindle is standard with the Extra Light frame and must be 
    ordered separately with the other road frame.
    
    

    one can still find ads for Klein's custom made boron-whatever bikes.
    
    As for Beryllium, it is known to cause Berylliosis in those who
    have worked with it.
    
    (Berylliosis is kinda like Asbestosis and Black Lung and all those
    other nasties that get you a long time after you were exposed.)
    
    ed

    
    
    
    Hmmmm...I used to do a fair amount of machining of Beryllium Copper.
    Hope the ole lungs don't collapse on me!  'Specially after blowing a
    fair amount of money on Italian componentry - 8^(
    
    It happens I also did a lot of Titanium work long ago...in fact we (my
    family) did a lot of the prototype work on Titanium Hip transplants and
    Knee transplants!  I do have a hip here in my office!  Maybe it's time
    to try to convince my Dad to do some custom titanium components!!  Hubs
    anyone?
    
    Steve
    
    P.S.  It ain't easy stuff to work with!!

If a cyclist replaces his hips and knees with titanium components, will
he be lighter?

I'm asking this question on behalf of the Merlin owners.


Rod

    Yes, if the new hip and knee "bones" are hollow but no if
    he replaces his cranium because that's already empty...
    
    :-)

    
    
    
    
         Well I hope you guys realize that the Merlin has been called "the
     bike" by many many reviews. Someday something better will come out but
     since Titanium doesnt rust and the Merlin doesnt scratch easily and
     Titanium doesnt fatigue much and Merlin replacement decals are readily
     available and Titanium provides such a comfortable ride and the bike
     is practically indestructable; us guys with Merlins will just shine up
     the bike, put on new decals and sell em to you guys without Merlins.
    
     So you can pay Merlin now or pay us later. ha ha ha
    
     Eat your heart out.
    
    
                                        
    
                                         
    
    
                                                   Yours in possessionism
                                           
                                                       Wayne V
                                                   Laughing all the way to
                                                      the bike store
                                                                    

     Interesting comment on the "light" roadie and the spindle having
    to be ordered separately...
    
     My material from MERLIN didn't offer a "light" bike or any special
    order options. I opted for no pump peg (got it anyway) and no
    fork (didn't get it)...
    
     Re; body parts... I can see it now - Class races including stock
                                          and modified.
    
                       I guess they'd make you walk through a metal
                       detector before the race!
    
          Chip

    re: -.2
    
    Cruel, very cruel.
    
    Phil

    I don't need a bike that will last longer than me.
    
    I don't NEED a bike that will last longer than me.
    
    I DON'T need a bike that will last longer than me.
    
    I DON'T NEED a ...
    
    ed

     Ed, I know where you can get some counselling. I think you've
    "made the turn" however. They always say once your past the
    denial stage....
    
    
        Chip :-)

I'm tired of all the time hearing all this tiatinium and Merkin stuff.  The
economy is in shambles, it's too cold to bike, there is too much ice on the
streets to ride and there are still bugs in the product for which I'm
responsible.  Are these fancy bikes even made in the USA?  What about this
tiatinium, where is it made?  Where does it come from?  It has not snowed
enough to go cross country skiiing around here all winter, just ice storms 
and rain storms ... the streets are so sandy and salty ...  it's the pits!
I'm sick of doing the bike-on-the-wind-trainer bit, I feel like a hamster, 
a fat one at that.  

Instead of figuring out how to get a fancy, lighter rustproof, scratch proof 
bikes why do you all do something useful, like fix the weather?

>Instead of figuring out how to get a fancy, lighter rustproof, scratch proof 
>bikes why do you all do something useful, like fix the weather?
    
    How about titanium roof for New-England ?

    
    RE: .-1 (By the way, thanks, Mike - I enjoyed it, while restraining
    myself from pointing out that it only reached 58�F here yesterday. :-))
    
    Well, the Ti's discussed here are American designed and mfr'd. and
    I think in general the material at least at the beginning has been
    a "war dividend" coming from aerospace stock (probably not so any more,
    as demand has increased).
    
    Rod of course has given the definitive word on the most constructive
    steps to take. :-)
    
    -john

     Re; .132 -- Please Dial 1-800-WHAAAAH....  :-)
    
         MERLIN doesn't use "cast-off" tubing, but gets it from a supplier
         that is "aircraft certified" Ti 3-2.5 seamless tubing.
    
         3-2.5 = 3% Aluminum combined with 2.5% Vanadium.
    
         MERLIN bikes are Mfg.'d in Somerville, Ma. The tubing is also
         from the U.S.A....
    
         Now, did I smell the color green? It IS an awful aroma...
    
             Chip :-)

It may be not manufactured by one of the fashoinable manufacturers :-) but in
looking through the 1992 Specialized catalog, I noticed that they now sell a 
titanium bottom bracket.

The road BB weighs 186g, has sealed cartridge bearings, and is available in 
112/121.5 lengths.

Mark

>I'm tired of all the time hearing all this tiatinium and Merkin stuff.
                                                             ^
                                   This is a typo, no?       |

Somerville!  That's nowhere near the USA!  Last time I was there I had to go
through Cambridge to get there and everybody knows where Cambridge is at.

You know, I've only seen pictures of these bikes (did somebody say these bikes
are colored green?) in bike magazines.  I've never seen one out on the road 
getting dirty.  Are they pictures of real bikes?  I'll bet the pictures are 
really airbrushed J.C. Higgins's.  I can think of other magazines that have 
airbrushed pictures that do not represent any kind of reality and these
magazines are very very un-PC.  Is this a plot?

Are there any women out there caught up in this tiatinium thing?

I dialed the 1-800 number given earlier and that did not help much, I still
feel like a fat gerbil.  Tonight is intervals for strength, maybe I'll work 
late instead.  Did hear about some snow tomorrow!

Anybody try 1-800 EAT BIKE yet?

For you Merlin owners who feel a need for even more Ti, the latest Colorado Cyclist
has Ti bottom brackets ($119.99, $165.00), handlebar stems ($215, $245), and 
wheel skewers ($95).

Mark

    $95 wheel skewers? Sheesh! Makes a $600 toilet seat look cheap....
    (The seat would be at least six times as useful.)  The people who
    make these must laugh out loud whenever they take an order.
    
    
    MATT

Sorry for not "noting" but work is really getting in the way...

Yes the Ti alloy and the bike (Merlin) is made in the U.S.  (which is a big 
minus - I being Canadian...)  Merlin very briefly consdered getting the stuff my
the now-defunct Soviet Union but would trust to get timely supplies (smart 
cookies).

Hey, I know of a guy who is putting a Merlin road bike together.  Dure Ace STI 
(stupid because of weight) but compensates with Ti water bottle cages ($75 each)
and Ti spokes ($125  for 2 wheels), Ti saddle and pedals (Time).  I'll have to
let him know about the stem and post and get him to drop the Dure Ace for 
quality stuff (any guesses??)

Eric

    RE: .141  If he wants to go really wild, why not one of the American
    made cranks, either Ti or Columbus Nivacrom with Ti Chainrings.  There
    are a few manufacturers listed in one of the mountain bike rags.
    While your at it, add the new $350 duegi? 8 speed hubs with 4 sealed
    bearings in each wheel, hyperglide/cassette compatible.
    
    steve  

    
    
    	Heard on the Eurosport coverage that one of the pros in the World
    Cyclo Cross Championships was riding on a titanium saddle. I was
    praying that he'd come a cropper on the corners and wreck it. Don't
    care if green is a horrible smell, it's better than the smell of an
    empty wallet :*)
    
    Graham. 

     Odiferous yens are in the nose of the beholder...
    
       Chip_who_obviously_loves_that_musty_leather_smell
    
              Chip

    
    
    
       The Ti stuff is addicative, I know a guy who has a Merlin road bike
       with at least:
    
         - Ti BB spindle
         - Ti bottle cages
         - Ti bottle cage bolts
         - Ti stem
         - Ti seat post
         - Ti seat rails
         - Ti stem bolt
         - Ti seat binder bolt
    
    He is building a new set of wheels with Ti spokes!
    He also has a Merlin moutain bike.
    He wants to buy the new Extra Light Merlin.
    He certainly has his priorities right!
    
    
                                    Wish I could get away with this too
                                            Yours in possessionism
                                               Wayne V
    
    

     Sounds like a very intelligent fellow. I'm glad that you entered this
    note. You never really appreciate your personal position until you
    see someone worse off than yourself... It's very humbling :-)
    
     I am on my way though. I will be ordering my Arctos stem very soon.
    Also, I'd like to get the cages from the MERLIN guy along with the
    bolts, a spindle, stem expander bolt and I'll toy with the A/C seat-
    post (it's just so damned ugly compared to the C Record plus I don't
    know if I want to give up that aero-edge I enjoy so much), and a
    partridge in a pair tree...
    
     The next wheels I build... The mmechanic that does my bike has been
    working on me (sew-ups and Ti spokes/alloy nipples)... I'll have to
    carry any anchor when I park the thing...
    
     Chip
    
     

    anybody got Ti rims yet? Or a Ti helmet?
    
    How about Ti bearings?
    
    harumph. Don't talk to me till you've gone all the way.
    
    ed

    Titanium bones and teeth?

    
    
    
       Oh yeah, I forgot to mention; he claims the bike weighs 17 pounds.
    
    

     With or without air? Sounds awfully light to me, but not impossible.
    I have a Kestrel EMS front fork and it's still relatively heavy
    (but not in comprison to a top end steel steed).
    
     Must climb like a demon!
    
         Chip

	Although I hate to encourage you...

	I'll bet your favorite comic books were the one's where
	IRON MAN (Marvel comics) baqttle Titanium Man (that
	evil nemisis from the Soviet Union)

	But alas, as in the comics, Iron beats Ti   8^)

I've heard that titanium spokes aren't much good: too brittle or something
like that.

Also saw a report from the Milan show in Bicycle magazine. One of the bikes
on display is a Greg Lemond ti bike. Is that a Merlin in disguise? It has
carbon-fibre forks, btw.


Rod

     Yes... The Greg LeMond bike is a MERLIN. He purchased 15 (?) for 
    TEAM Z.
    
     I agree with the comment on iron beating Ti... It beats it in weight
    (heavier), it's much faster in the oxidation category (a real plus),
    it is less resilient, fatigue strength is less, etc... Yup, you're
    right, steel blows Ti away :-)
    
     Greg's dad went off and bought the EMS forks for Greg while he was
    in Europe last year...
    
    
        Chip
    

For all your die-hard Ti-weenies out there - the pigment in white colored house
paint is often titanium oxide. I won't really believe that you're doing your
utmost to protect your investment in Ti bike parts unless you paint your
house white. And to help keep the goblins out, there's a Ti .357 revolver
available.....
                              just trying to help,
                              ken

     Thanks a lot Ken... Now I have to trade my S&W .357 stainless
    Mod. 681 in... Will it never end!
    
      Chip

>     Thanks a lot Ken... Now I have to trade my S&W .357 stainless
>    Mod. 681 in... Will it never end!
    
No problem, Chip. As I find new Ti things for you to buy, I'll pass 'em along.
I've heard that the Ti .357 can be washed in the dishwasher after a day at
the range. Savings of effort right off the bat. BTW, (surPRISE!!!!) the
durn thing was EXPENSIVE!!!

In other fields of endeavor (got a pilot's license, Chip?) I think SR-71's
are mostly made of Ti. If you can afford the fuel, will get you there a batch
faster than the Merlin....
                                     ken

       Wonder how much the blacksmith would charge to rip out all that
    mercury amalgum from the teeth and do me a full set of Ti fillings ?
    
    Re. SR-71 and paint. Reminds me of an excellent little tale about
    RAF Greenham, but it's got nothing directly to do with Ti, so I'll
    resist the temptation to repeat it.

     Re; The Blackbird... I'm glad I don't have my pilot's license.
         The U.S Gov't can't even afford to keep 'em in the air...
    
         While it may appear I'm independently wealthy, a member of
         OPEC or the Columbian drug cartel, my income does have it's
         limits. I just go without a lot of life's embellishments, e.g.
         food, clothing, entertainment, vacations, health care.... you
         know, the really frivolous stuff... :-)
    
         Chip_who_want_Megabucks_just_one_time_!

I have this theory about Ti, STI and Ergos.

Shimano, and Campy have secretly cornered the Ti market.  Now they are 
introducing very heavy, very gee-whiz, and very expensive components.  The
lightness freaks are now forced to buy nearly custom-machined Ti components
to compensate for the weight gain...

I'm waiting for a Ti water bottle.


:)

>> I'm waiting for a Ti water bottle.

	WHAT!!! Ti should only be used on the essential parts that you can't
  ride a bike without. To really cut down, you need to get rid of all the
  other non-essential weight, ie. water bottles, computer, rider... :*)


	In all seriousness, I thought that the argument about the extra weight
  from STI was a bit nitpicky; you can try and save too much weight. But the
  comments about where the weight is have made me think again. An extra �pound
  or whatever it is across the bike is insignificant, but have STI users found
  there bikes handle differently with more weight on the handlebars? Curious
  minds want to know...

  Graham.

    Wait'll all those Ti owners start drillin holes to make 'em even
    lighter...
    
    NO, not in the frame, ninny, the tires!
    
    ed

       Enquiring minds want to know why Graham is worried about the handling
    of an STI bike. Could it be that the blades just aren't enough for him
    ? Can he be considering the purchase of a Merlin Light sprayed a subtle
    shade of pink, with screaming LOOK AT ME decals ?
       Isn't it enough to know that these people go arse-over-tit
    because the titanium at the back-end and the STI at the front
    put the centre of gravity way out in front whenever they brake ?
    
    ---Alan (who can't afford to buy the 130mil dropout frame, new back wheel
             and STI he needs and is learning to live with it).

    I can't tell Alan about the effect of 500g of STI shifters on the
    handling of the bike. But does anyone want to know about the effects on
    handling of a medium-format camera plus film, accessories and bananas
    in a handlebar bag. No? Right, be quiet then.
    
    
    Rod

    
    
    	A new bike magazine in Britain called Cycling Plus has a road test
    of a Merlin Titanium equipped with Sun Tour Superbe Pro. They said that
    it was the fastest bike they had ever ridden, but the build quality
    left a lot to be desired. They mentioned things like the head tube and
    seat tube being out of alignment, although in all fairness, they also
    claimed that they couldn't notice it while riding.
    
    Graham.
    

     Interesting... They are all hand built so I would imagine one
    might sneak out from time to time... 
    
     One more step toward pure obtainium-Ti... I got my  KING cages
    Saturday (I had to ask for the Ti bolts - he sent them - No Charge).
    
     I picked up the envelope and I thought either the thing was empty
    or he had sent only one... (both arrived)
    
     P.S. Mailing off my check for the Artcos stem this morning!
    
      Still Crazy!

     Well, I just got my MERLIN Beta-C Ti spindle! Wow is it LITE!
    
       Here's some info...
    
    
                           Weight   84g
    
                Dura-Ace ni-cr-mo   150g
    
    
               AVERAGE YIELD & ULTIMATE TENSILE VALUES
    
    
        Material                UTS (ksi)          Yield (ksi)
    
         6-4 Ti                    134                126
    17-4 Stainless                 175                170
    Dura-Ace ni-cr-mo              193                172
    
    MERLIN Beta-C                  206                195
    
      UTS= Ultimate tensile strength
      ksi= thousand lbs. per sq. inch
      
        Chip

It means you can eat (150 - 84) grams of pizza before you go out and not notice
the difference............

    With or without pili-pili ?

     It just means a 45% weight saving against what is considered to be
    some of the best spindles available and you get an increase in strength
    at the same time...
    
     It also so means it's more expensive... I think that covers it...
    
         Chip

    Once upon a time Campy had a Ti axle and everyone complained that
    it flexed.  Are the new ones better?
    
    ed

Ultimate Tensile Strength - The tensile load you'd have to apply to break 
a bar of the material 1 square inch in cross-section. (Tensile = pulling apart)

Yield Strength - The tensile load corresponding to the elastic limit of
the material. Any material stretches under tensile load. If you apply a 
load less than Yield, the material will regain its former shape when the
load comes off. If you apply a greater load, the material will be permanently
deformed.

As to whether the Ti spindle will be bendy, you can't tell from these two 
figures. You'd need to know the Young's Modulus of the material, which is a 
measure of the material's elasticity: that is, how much elastic deformation
a given load produces. Don't confuse this with strength. You could make a
rope from rubber and a rope from steel which had the same breaking strength,
but the rubber rope would stretch a whole lot more than the steel rope for
the same load.

The actual physical shape of the spindle will also have a large bearing on 
its flexibility. Since Ti is much less dense than steel, the spindle may well
use a greater volume of material than the steel equivalent, or to put it
another way, the spindle may be thicker. That would be a very good way of
making it stiff, like fat tubes on Cannondales.


Rod

    For you Ti/Merlin freaks: check out the $6600 (sold) mountain frame,
    XTR, titanium everywhere bike at Chelmsford Cyclery...
    

     I GOT MY ERGOS THIS MORNING!!!!!!! COOL/NEATO/AWESOME/TUBULAR!!!!!
    
       Chip

Chip,

Have you installed them yet.  What do you think?

Eric

I hear Shimano is coming out with a Ti version next year.
Supposed to weigh less than the current Campy Ergos...

Also aero cable under tape...

Tom 

is it april 1st yet

     Nope... Not yet. I have to get the BB spindle installed and I'm
    waiting for my ARTCOS stem.. I wouldn't want to do an install, then
    teardown and re-install. 
    
     I'm trying to get ahold of the Gary (ARTCOS), but am not having much 
    luck...
    
     I'll keep you posted... HEAVY SPRING FEVER RIGHT NOW!
    
       Chip

     Is that a Ti STI system or what? Brakes? Frame?
    
       Chip

Chip,

Check out the last line in my reply. 

�is it april 1st yet?

I was just pulling you ol' Titanium leg.


Actually how long will it be before Shimano comes out with
a light weight, aero STI???

If they do, I bet it won't work with the current group.

T

    I saw the ultimate in Merlin owners required eye wear today 
    Titanum spectacle frame - 48% lighter!

     Thanks Tom. I was wondering what that little tug was... Early mornings
    are coma-time for me anyway...
    
     I've heard that as part of some of the coatings used on today's lenses
    Ti is used along with iridium, niacin, iron, riboflavin, etc... :-)
    
       Chip

A budy of mine has Ti eye glass frames. The temples and the nose bridge
are titanium. This makes the glass frame unbreakable. He had me take one
of the temples and wrap it around my finger. When you let it go it would
spring back into place with no hint of being bent. I really wound it
around my finger not just a small bend. Yet it was still stiff enough to
feel like steel. 

Stiff, light and expensive.

Sound familiar?

Tom

    What's next?  Ti-belted tires???

    
    
    	What about making the bolts that keep your shoe cleats on out of
    Ti?
    
    Graham.
    

     Believe it or not, just about every bolt/nut/screw is available
    in Ti somewhere...
    
       Chip

    
    
    	Even Frankenstein's bolt through his neck?
    
    Graham :*)
    

     Oooooops! Some call a doctor! I just ordered a Ti seatpost and
    a Ti stem binder bolt..
    
      Help Mee
              ee
                ee
                  ee
                    ee
                      ee
                        ee
                          ee
    
     P.S. Yes, I am going to have that steel plate in my head replaced with
          titanium.
    
             Chip

    Chip was last seen in front of Boston Common, carrying a sign
    
    "Help a poor Ti Junky"
    
    (but, no, he's not kicking the habit)

Nikons have Ti shutters...

     Just got my American Classic Ti seatpost. Man, what an ugly stick!
    But it's Ti and very light. Hell, beauty is only skin deep anyway.
    
     Right?
    
      Chip

    But is it aero?

    And is there a drogue chute in it

     Nope - non-aero... No drogue(?) shute (drag shute?)... and gee John,
    I don't know how to respond to that??? :-)
    
       Chip

    Got my bike back Saturday morning... Marrrooooonnnnnee! Those Ergos are
    awsome!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They work great!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    The mechanics assured me that the Ergos are built better and work
    better than Shimano's stuff... I knew that already, of course! :-)
    
     Chip

    
    
    	Interview in this weeks Cycling Weekly with Greg Lemond says that
    he stopped riding Merlin frames because 'they were getting more out of
    the arrangement than we were.'
    
    	Also says that he's had very little money back from his bike
    business but keeps it going because it lets him experiment more.
    
    Graham.
    

     Can't blame 'im... They wouldn't (couldn't) sponsor him and
    provide free bike...
    
       Chip

    
    
    	How do you match a $5 million contract? The bikes would cost
    that...  :*)
    
    

    Well my husband went to work for Merlin last week!  He talks like he
    died and went to heaven.  The work ethic is phenomenal not to mention
    the product......  He will be a Merlin bike owner soon as a fringe
    benefit and I, as his "significant other" will be next summer!  This
    note has been really fun to read.
    
    

    Re; "died and went to heaven"... HE DID!!!!
    
        BTW, my ARTCOS stem is in the mail!!!
    
          Chip

    
    
       After some wet riding here lately I have noticed my Merlin takes on
    water at quite an alarming rate.
       Please don't think me a fool to ride in the rain. It's train in the
    rain or don't train that day and maybe the next day and next day too.
    There has been alot of rain this summer.
       After leaving the bike sitting upside down on it's seat for a while
    about 2 onces of water collected in the under side of the seat. It ob-
    viously came out of the seat tube. I suspect the water is entering
    through the rather large crack at the seat binder bolt. Yes my seat
    post is the right size and it fits snugly into the seat tube.
       I confirmed the water problem again yesterday, it has happened every
    wet ride.
       My main concern here is water getting into the bottom bracket
    bearings through the seat tube. Anyone know if the bearings are open to
    the seat tube?
       If it keeps raining I'll be doing some more investigation with the
    problem and when I figure it out I'll let you know. In the mean time
    would any Merlin owners care to invert their bikes and let me know if
    this is just my problem or Merlins in general.
    
    
    
    
    
                                               Ti brothers unite
                                               / regards
                                               Wayne Vierhout
    
    
    

>    viously came out of the seat tube. I suspect the water is entering
>    through the rather large crack at the seat binder bolt. Yes my seat

Um, sounds like maybe your post is not inserted far enough into the 
frame - not familiar with Merlin, but on most bikes, if the crack is
not covered (on the inside) by the post, you're risking possible damage 
to you/bike if not inserted far enough. Try finding a longer post... 

Of course, some steel-frame builders have tried to solve the water
problem in the past by drilling out the underside of the BB shell -
saves weight, looks neat (when done well, ala Masi), drains water, lets
all sorts of road crap in :-)..... 

    
    
      The seat post is in fact a mountain bike seat post and is extra long!
    
    
    
                                                     Beats the Hell outa me
                                                           Wayne V
    

    
    
    This might be crazy, but water usually gets in through the
    headset.  Could it be draining through the down tube and
    bypassing the seat post?  Perhaps the bottle boss screws?
    
    r�
    
    A_Non_Merlin_Owner_Who-Has_Had_Everything_Go_Wrong_At_Some_Point

>      The seat post is in fact a mountain bike seat post and is extra long!
    
If the crack is still open with an XL post, try covering it with some 
elec. tape on the inside. If the crack IS covered, I discovered years 
back that certain types of BB axles actually seem to suck water into the 
BB shell as the cranks turn, these seemed to be mainly the axle / loose 
balls style. I was never able to conclusively PROVE that this was 
happening. Didn't seem to affect the sealed BB's, but sample size was 
kind of small. I used to slip a little greased foam donut over the ends of the 
BB axle before mounting the crank arms, helped keep out dirt, but didn't
completely stop water. Looked ugly, tho! :-)
                           ken

    re. 0  I have the same problem with water getting in the frame with my
    Trek 1200 during wet rides, and the seatpost is plenty long.  I would
    imagine its a fairly common thing; its just not that many realize they
    get water in there cuz they don't look.  I have yet to have a BB freeze
    on, and the cups usually last a good 3-5k or so before gouging.  -kb

After a long and extremely wet ride recently (there's been a lot of rain
this summer) I found plenty of water inside the bike, days, weeks later.
Not much to be done about it except turn the bike upside down occasionally.

I note that many tubesets come with little drain holes in the forks and stays.
What's the wisdom here: accept that manufacturers know what they are doing,
or cover the holes and risk trapping water inside?


Rod

>I note that many tubesets come with little drain holes in the forks and stays.

Think those may be 'brazing relief holes' so that when the air cools 
inside the tubes it has somewhere to equalize.... this from distant past 
and [probably defective] memory.
                          ken

I haven't had any problem with the water in the frame, but I have had water
trapped in my rims. They are Campy Yipslon Aero rims and the water was coming 
in through the spoke holes and or valve hole. I have to take the tire off and 
shake the rim to get the water out the valve hole. 

Tom 

    
    DO NOT cover the the tiny holes found on the ends of tubes.  They were
    originally put there as expansion holes for the brazing construction.
    Although they allow water to enter more importantly they allow
    condensation to escape.  
    
    							Norm
    
    

    Wayne,
    
    Have you considered calling Merlin??  I haven't experienced this
    problem but we haven't had the rain as you have had in Ottawa.  It
    would be worth a call to Merlin.  I wonder if it has anything to do
    with the port holes in the BB.  I don't have them.  Do you?
    
    An idea to confirm the source of the problem: wrap some paper around
    your seat post and insert into tube.  Go for a nice wet ride, dry the
    exposed part of the tube after getting out of the rain and pull the
    post out.  Check for water marks on the paper.
    
    Eric

    
    
      Yes I have the grease injection ports and its now stopped raining
    here in Toronto. Next ride in the rain I am planning to tape around the
    seat post area and see what happens.
      By the way I seen a Merlin extralight last week, I need an excuse to
    get one -  :-)  I wonder if it has this problem my Merlin has?  :-)
    
    
    
                                          Yours in continued possessionism
                                            and covet-iousness
                                              Wayne V
    
    

     No problem with mine either (also looking for an excuse to get
    an ultrlight).
    
     If those little grease-guard fitting come of easily get it wet again
    then pull one off and see if water comes out... Or pull the seatpost
    out, get a flash light and check it out... I don't have the grease-
    guard set up either, or call Merlin...
    
     I'm sure you noticed there are no brazing vent holes on the Merlin
    frame.
    
     I do remember that Bicycling indeed did recommend a silicon sealer
    (of the plumbling variety - clear or white) to solve the problem of
    water getting into the frame through those little holes.

I saw the Extralite frameset advertised in Excel's catalog for a mere
$2495.  What exactly do you get for the "extra" $515?  

Add the Dura-Ace STI package for about another $1399.95 (less anything 
included with the frame), and you now have close to a $4K bike.
Thanks!

Ray (who is actually starting to covet one)

     Is that 2495.00 for frame and fork only?
    
       Chip

Excel Catalog, Vol. #10, Page 3:  Merlin Extralite Frameset  $2495.00
                                  Standard Frameset: $1980

After getting my weekly fix (ie. strolling through various bike shops
wishing for all those nice $$$ bikes) I just have to ask this

How much does it weigh?  I know the frames are light but what does
the whole bike weigh.   At Gamache's they have a TREK 5500 hanging
from a scale, the bike weighs 19 lbs.

    I'm feeling especially encouraged today :-)...
    
    Merlin cannot really compete with composite frames. They're much
    lighter, but do blow steel frames off in the weight department.
    
    My frame weight is 2.97lbs. for a 53cm frame. The Ultra-Light frame
    is obviously lighter.
    
    Mine weighs in at just under 20lbs... It's no secret that I have
    aggressively pursued weight reduction, but, in my defense, I still
    have ignored two big items that would easily get at (if not surpass
    the Trek lite-weight). Those being 1) getting some tubulars and
    2) replacing the Delta brakeset. 
    
    BTW, George Gamache pulled the Trek off the scale and put my bike
    on it (with the Cateye wireless computer - another opportunity) so
    the weighing process is somwhat controlled.
    
     Chip

    I have a third area for improvement but Chip probably doesn't.
    
    Getting rid of the spare tire would help.
    
    ed

    	RE: "Getting rid of the spare tire...."
    
    	Ed, did you think you were talking to me?
    
    	I mean, hear we are at Johnstown, in the staging area before
    	the 24-hour challenge, and I tell Linda that I still want one
    	of her jerseys. Ed says, "Linda, better make one with a front
    	porch." I mean the gall of some people 8-)>. I've eaten hard
    	(and exercised little) to get that front porch. Of course, it
    	does get in the way on the upgrades.
    
    	Scott

    No, I was refering to my own fat tire.
    
    ed

    btw, Chip, what the Merlin loses by being so much heavier than the
    5500, it gains by having ergos instead of STI.
    
    ed

     Ed, that appears to be the majority opinion. People and mechanics
    who have had experience with both vote for the ergos. I, personally,
    can't talk to STI.
    
     Two big points for me; 1) Paint maintenance/scratch worries are non-
    existent  2) Frame repairs are possible/easier/less expensive...
    
     Not that I'm biased or anything... Excuse me while I go have a cup
    of titan--- er, I mean coffee..............
    
     Chip      

    do you at least have a Ti coffee mug?  I mean your muscles have got to
    be withering now that you're not kicking butt with a heavy old steel
    frame.
    
    ;-)
    
    ed

Weight: 2 1/2 lbs

Eric

     Re; withering muscles... No problem! I can get my training ride in
         so fast now I have more time for yard work and house chores!
    
         :-) Chip :-)

    
    
      Well I rode in the rain again and a few days latter I shone a flash
    light down the seat tube. I could see about an inch of water just
    sitting there in the bottom of the seat tube. The BB bearings have a
    plastic sheath over them so they dont get affected by the water. Also
    I dont suspect the water entered from the BB area since the water did
    not drain out of that area after sitting for a few days.
    
    
    
                                                   Keepin Ya in the Loop
                                                        Wayne V
    
    

Re-2>

	What type of rear suspension did it have? I assume it had a Rock Shox
	in the front. 

Tom

PS I know what riding a dirt bike is like. I had a Honda XR500 and it spoiled 
me with its 11 and 10.5 inch front and rear suspension travel. Riding a non
suspended mountain bike is torture when you know how it really should be. 

I bet my XR at $3000.00 was cheaper than the Merlin.

    
    
    
        Any idea if Merlin is offering anything new on the Road. The Road
    product line seems to be slightly neglected with only 200 of the
    Extralights being made.
        Maybe they are throwing there full effort into the suspension
    Mountain frame. I wonder in this has anything to do with the mountain
    bike market supposedly drying up in Europe and rumoured to do so here 
    here too in a few years... Taking it while they can get it and so on.
    
         Any heard any new news?
    

    
    
    
      Answered my own question here ... I wondered if the silence to my
    question meant that every one else knew the answer and wasnt telling
    me. Leaving me flailing about like a screaming banshee in heat. :-)
    
    ANYWAYS
    
    For next year ... Because of popular demand the Extralight road bike
    will be back! The price will go up too.
    
    "All Merlin bikes will be sold with a conventional style bottom
    bracket." The grease guard will be an option.
    
    Merlin will also be offerring a cartidge style bottom bracket spindle
    as a separate item where the spindle is Ti.

     Interesting... I don't care all that much for my cartridge BB.
    It is a dog compared to my C Record BB, but it's also maintenance
    free.
    
     Given the choice back then, I definitely would have gone with the
    race and bearing BB.
    
     How are they doing this? Tapping is incredibly difficult. Are they
    using an alloy BB welded to the Ti tubes?
    
     Chip

    
    
    Not sure - but I am wondering if maybe the cartridge BB will not
    require threads in the frame??
    
    

     Cartridges are pressed in the BB voiding any threading (on the older
    models)...
    
     I guess I'll have to sell my current frame and go for the more trendy
    (contemporary) model...  :-)  Ya right! My "soon-to-be" wife would be
    collecting life insurance a lot quicker than I'd like her too...
    
     Chip

    not if she's responsible for your death  :-)

    
    
    	If the worst comes to the worst, and she does end up collecting the
    life insurance, remember me for the will. I'll even pay to go over and
    collect the Ti frame myself...  :*)
    
    Graham.

     Thanks for being so compassionate!!!!    :-)
    
        Chip

    
    
    
      Noticed that this note appears rather dead. Well now that we've all
     put mega miles on our Merlins who has worn out their BB bearings?
    Seems like my left side one is gone. In talking to some other local
    Merlin owners around Toronto this is not uncommon especially after 7 or
    8 thousand miles despite the grease injection systems.
      I wonder if this had anything to do with the threaded conventional
    type BB on the '93 Merlins.
      
    
      Wayne V
    
     P.S.
    
     How long is the aluminum fork expected to last?
    
    

>      Noticed that this note appears rather dead. Well now that we've all
>     put mega miles on our Merlins who has worn out their BB bearings?

   - Jim

     I have the "Jurassic" model ('89) with no grease-guard fittings...
    
     This is my third season with it and must have about 12.5k miles with
     no problems and the original sealed bearings. They seem fine. 
    
     My biggest complaint about the sealed bearings are that they don't
     even come close to my C Record BB. The Record crank will spin 
     effortlessly forever (okay, almost). The sealed bearings are
     stiff.
    
     In fact, the only sealed bearings that seem to be outstanding (along
     with the engineering combination) are the A/C hubs. Man are those
     smooth and they DO spin forever...
    
     I've got the Kestrel EMS fork on mine. No problem. I'm still very
     happy with the frame and think I'll keep it for a while (so that
     my wife won't kill or leave me).
    
     One more complaint (almost forgot)... Those decals! 
    
     Mine are black - UGLY! The new ones are white - UGLIER! And to top it
     all off they disintegrate! Merlin should supply them free each year
     to their customers - FREE!
    
     Serrotta's Ti frame with the red decals are absolutely sharp (IMHO).
    
       Chip  

I know that it's not a Merlin question, but it is a Ti question so I'll ask 
it here anyhow.  :-)

I noticed in the latest Performance Bicycles catalog that they now have a 
Ti frame with Al fork advertised.  The frame and fork is priced at $849 
which seems "inexpensive" for a Ti frame.  Does anyone know if these are 
any good?

Thanks,
Mark

The Performance Ti frames are made overseas.  You may wish to
investigate a theorized move by Litespeed.  There is rumours that
they are announcing a sub $1000 frame, built to the same standards
as their other bikes.  They have simplified some of the tubing
and no options, but using the same "quality" Ti.

steve 

    
    I'd bet that the Russians and Chinese will drive down the price 
    of Ti tubing. I hope that this Performance frame offering is just 
    the first in a few rounds of price cuts on Ti frames. If I were 
    contemplating a Ti bike, I'd wait a bit and watch what happens. 
    
    doug
    

     I'm not sure if anyone really knows the quality of either the
     workmanship itself or the raw material/process.
    
     I have seen very little in the way of comparative analysis on
     the product (Ti the metal) or the weld/frame quality. Probably
     tough data to get from the former Soviets or China. 
    
     The advice provided is right on... Either wait until the jury's
     in on foreign stuff or wait until you've accumulated enough $$'s
     and go with a proven make...
    
     Chip

    The Raleigh Dyna-Tech bonded frames now come in various titania
    (love that plural) and some are verging on cheap. They seem to
    have the bonding technology sorted, so it's all down to the
    quality of the tubes.
       Dunno what the fuss is about really, carbon-fibre is the only
    worthwhile choice these days.
    
    ---Alan

    	Carbon-fibre??? Oh... Is that the stuff you get from Meuslix
        and is good for instigating a bowel movement???
    
          Chip
    

    >>> good for instigating a bowel movement
    
    Very true. The poor sad people on metal bikes tend to
    slacken their sphincters when they realise just how
    fast someone on a Carbon Fibre bike can go uphill
    (if that someone isn't me).
    
    ---Alan

     Thanks for the response Alan. I thought that remark would get a 
     lot more attention then it did!
    
     I thought Peter Vincent would say something...
    
     Re; Slackened sphincters... Yeah, we tend to divert the muscle energy
         into the legs. Being anal retentive is sooooo 80's  :-)
    
         Chip
    

    
    
    
       Anyone needing Merlin decals be sure to phone Merlin for them. They
     will provide them for free!!. Local stores here tried to sell them to
     me. The instruction sheet shipped with the decals fails to mention
    that some of the decals are water release after they are embossed onto
    the frame.
    
    -regards
     Wayne V