Conference noted::bicycle

    Sometimes the cleat fits tight over the pedal.  In this case a file
    should be used to open the slot in the cleat a little.  If the straps
    are loose you should not have a problem getting out.
      The only time I fell over was because I forgot to loosen the straps.
    The worse part was that I did it in front of the Serrota factory.
      I solved the problem this year by buying clipless pedals.  If
    anyone is interested I have the TIME criterium pedals.  After trying
    almost all of the clipless pedals I decided on these.  Very secure
    and well crafted.  I wore off alot of my Vittoria stickers trying
    them out in the past couple of weeks.  
    
    					Norm

    I think you're better off flying attached to the bike than unattached. 
    The times I've done it -- see some of the notes in this file though I'm
    sure I have not described all of the incidents -- the bike helped
    prevent some scrapes and scars.
    
    Keep 'em tight and learn to get out of 'em.
    
    e

     It's simply a matter of attention. I used them for a while before
    going to the clipless system. Like Norm I have the TIME (racing)
    system (Norm, you don't mind the weight of the shoe?). 
    
     Cleated systems are absolutely, positively more dangerous. However,
    they are not more dangerous in thesituation you described. I'd like
    to make this point, I agree that staying with the machine can be
    a lifesaver (skinsaver?) as has been my experience with motorcycles.
    But, the nice thing about the clipless system is if your leg/ankle
    want to do some weird angles during a rollover, they'll come out.
    With clips, you'll probably hear some nasty snapping sounds.
    
     If you can afford it - GO CLIPLESS! If you can't be careful. We
    need the numbers.
    
     Chip

    I have to agree with Ed's reply.  In some of the more serious crashes
    I have had I have found it better to take the bike with me as
    protection.  I have been giving the clipless pedal rather that ever
    use toe-clips and IMO the toe-clip strap cleat route may be a better
    way to start since you can get the in-between states rather than
    cleated-in or not as is the case with clipless pedals...  Actually,
    when I used to wear toe-clips and cleats I found no matter how hard
    I sniched (sp?) the straps down I could always pull loose if I had
    to.  
    
    
    Joe

>>    I was pulling up alongside the curbing at HLO when the bike slowed
>>    to almost a standstill I fell. 
	
      Thats OK though, I know of two people that were riding motorcycles 
(seperate occasions), when they came to a stop they forgot to put their feet
down.	

      Don't blame the toe-clips. I've done this more than once. Just plain
forgot about getting my feet out. If I'm riding in traffic I would leave my
right strap loose so I could get in and out fast. After a while out of habit I
learned to loosen the strap when I came to a stop.
             
	Don't worry about crashing at speed with the straps sinched. I've
found the bike stays with you even without clips and straps. Although your foot
and knee can be twisted, but this will occur even with touring shoes in clips
and straps that are loose.

Tom_who_now_uses_LOOK

    You have to remember to pull your foot up as you pull backwards
    - otherwise the cleat is still trying to hold you in.
    
    	-Nancy (who is in the process of buying SAMPSON)
    

re .5


>      Thats OK though, I know of two people that were riding motorcycles 
>(seperate occasions), when they came to a stop they forgot to put their feet
>down.	

	Whoa, don't forget that motorcyclists (used to) have another
problem;  the d*mn*d kick starter has a Murphy's law habit of getting 
inside the right pant leg (-:

	Generally you are better off strapped in tight if you go down 
at all hard   ....AND !

	Contrary to  popular/conventional/contemporary wisdom;  I 
believe that it is also a lot safer to hold on REAL TIGHT to the bars 
when you go down and  "look_at_your_belt_buckle",  i.e. tuck your head 
in to save your head and neck.  I  *_DO NOT_*  believe in flailing 
arms and legs around in attempts to "save oneself from getting hurt", 
thats how fingers get caught in storm drain gratings (ouch).

	Reg

Have crashed at good speed several times and with cleats/no cleats and
strapped in tight or loose have NEVER even come close to staying attached 
to the bike! Despite being real fond of my bikes, I've always been kinda 
glad they weren't around when I landed. Lot of blunt objects pointed at 
wierd angles on a bike! Just as well to be rid of it for those few 
moments.....
                                    ken

    	Most of us have experienced the new cleat wearer's "Oh, Shit"
    accident of comming to a stop while still firmly attached to the
    bike. Usually this produces a massive injury to your dignity, and
    not much worse. You tend to remember these instances and do better
    in the future.
    	Besides the improved efficiency, I like the safety aspect of
    the systems on those instance when I hit a bump on a down hill and
    unexpectedly become airborne. Keeping the bike under you when you
    land is one problem - it becomes much more difficult when your feet
    have started to tread air - I like them to stay attached to the
    pedals! You could get seriously hurt in a situation like this if
    you don't stay attached to the bike. Reason enough to put up with
    the minor surprises (having to stop at an intersection with poor
    visibility that you thought was clear and you could roll into at
    2 mph, etc) that cause some frantic unfastenings. - Chris
    

>    to almost a standstill I fell. Now I'm wondering what would happen
>    if I'm cruising along at full speed and for some unknown reason
>    I loose control of the bike but my feet don't want to leave those
>    toe clips. I like the added power that you can generate due to them
    
    	What happens is that you go into a full shoulder barrel roll.
    At least that's what happend to me a couple of weeks ago.  The good
    news is that your bike frame will be protected since you will absorb
    all of the shock since your bike will be firmly attached to your feet
    that will be up in the air when your back is on the ground (Saved my 
    aluminum frame).  The bad news is that the shock you absorb will 
    seperate your shoulder bones (at least) or sever your collor bone (not 
    at worst).  I still wear them but I'm looking for a better system :-)
    
    							Jerry
    

    	If you still prefer toe-clips to clipless, try
    these little tricks that I have learned since my
    misfortune.  
    	
    	1.	Use extra long straps if you have big feet
    (The Mountain Straps are perfect for this and can be cut to size)
    
    	2.	Remove the cleats and pull the straps real tight and
    	you'll hardly notice the little performance loss from the
    cleat removal but you will *always* be able to pull out
    in an emergency.
    
    	2.	Buy shoes intended *just* for clips...Nike makes them.
    
    						Jerry