Conference noted::bicycle

>< Note 900.0 by SMURF::BINDER "A complicated and secret quotidian existence" >

In 1982 I was rear-ended by a BMW doing excessive speed.  I had minor
broken bones, skull fracture, and concussion.  I was not wearing a
helmet, but cold-weather bundling may have helped, as did the grassy
shoulder on which I (apparently) landed.  I spent a while (three weeks)
flat in bed in the hospital, because it's hard to assess the risks of
skull and brain damage.  I was very lucky, although people say I had been
a normal person before the accident... now I'm a software consultant.

Since 1984 I've been wearing a now old-style Bell helmet.  If I'd been wearing
one in the accident, I'd have been home in a couple of days.  I had most
of the helmet-objections outlined in .0, and overcame them in like manner.

>o   Helmets cause overheating because they restrict heat loss through 
>    the head.

     The first helmet I tried *did* have that problem, or so it seemed
     to me.   It was a yellow Mountain Safety Research (?) helmet.  Much
     of my biking was in the Alps, and it's impossible *not* to be strenuous
     on those long climbs into the sun.  Sweat poured into my eyes.  The
     whole bit.  The Bell (and more modern designs) seem cool, and actually
     ward off sweat, as well as solar-heating in the summer - a big win in 
     the South.
     
>o   A helmet is too heavy - holding up an extra pound on a long ride is
>    too hard on the neck. 

     It took my neck about 2 days to get used to the weight.  Period.
     And that's with the relatively heavy old Bell.

>o   Helmets don't look cool.

     The Bell helmets even older than mine *did* look nerd-like.  I don't
     know what styling cues make me say that, but it's true.  And for those
     of us who encounter the non-biking public, it's either cute or an
     aggravation to hear those endless "Martian-on-a-bicycle" wisecracks.  
     But, hey, at least you stand out from the crowd.  

     For those who wish to make a fashion statement while biking, you should 
     feel lucky that lycra shorts happen to be "in" this year (as successor to
     sweatsuits for non-biker leisure wear).  Maybe next year it will be
     helmets (with Walkmans in them, of course).  You could be at the cutting
     edge of a trend!

-john

    	See note 836 for some comments and reactions!! on foam only
    helmets.  Nomex is suggested. - Chris

    Ok.  Then what's a good helmet?
    
    

>    Ok.  Then what's a good helmet?

	One that is ANSI or SNELL approved...  there will be a sticker inside.
	One that fits well...  you have to try them on.
	One that is comfortable...  fit, light weight, fit, ventilation & fit.

    Greetings Fellow Bikers,
    
    I know this must make me sound like the nerd of the century but
    the only thing I'd like is a visor for my helmet. btw I do use a
    DIGITAL pocket-protector. Are there any helmets that have a visor
    for them? And $40 seems to be the going price for a helmet is that
    about right?
    
    thanks 
    
    Fred Mudgett 

    The Bell Stratos comes with a visor.
    
    I've been seeing them on sale incredibly cheap in alot of bike shops
    lately.  Apparently, they didn't sell like they were supposed to
    last year.

Re: .5, .6 

Yeah, I guess the Stratos *was* a loser, from the commercial point of
view!  It's aerodynamic and sexy looking, but it's decidedly on the
bulky side.  It also weighs 430 grams, and that's an awful lot these
days.  With shell-less helmets as light as 169g (Vetta Corsalite),
racers just won't buy something like the Stratos, and its original list
price of $60+ was enough more than Bell's Tourlite, which also had a
visor, that most casual riders wouldn't spring for it either.

Bike Nashbar had the Stratos in Anthracite color only for $23.90 in
catalog 58 - I haven't noticed it in catalog 59, which came after
Christmas.  If you're really set on having a helmet with a visor, that's
far and away your best bargain.  But I suggest you ought to look at a
lighter, more compact helmet and separate sport eyewear, like Boll� or
Rhode Gear or Rudy glasses.  (I suspect also that getting a new visor
for the Stratos, after your visor suffers the inevitable slings and
arrows of outrageous flies, pebbles, and casual scratches, ain't gonna
be all that easy.) 

The Bell Ovation helmet, which has a thin shell to protect the foam from
casual dings and also to keep the helmet from sticking as shell-less
helmets *may be* prone to do, weighs 269 grams.  Nashbar sells it for 
$60, but catalog 59 shows it on sale for under $48.

Sure, you'll pay more for something like the Ovation, but I think
there's payback in riding comfort and pleasure - I've used an original
Bell Biker since '77 or '78, whenever they first came out - I'm on my
second one, courtesy of a large Chevrolet in November of '79 - but it's
bloody heavy, and I was thrilled to get a new Ovation for Christmas. 

- Dick 

< Note 900.5 by GRANPA::FMUDGETT "Just how bad was it working?" >
                              -< Visors anyone? >-

   
  >                             Are there any helmets that have a visor
  > for them? And $40 seems to be the going price for a helmet is that
  > about right?
    
  Fred,

	I have a Bell Tourlite that is brand new. If you have a small head
and would like to get one cheap I'll sell it to you, say $20.00

Tom DeLoriea	XCELR8::DELORIEA

I've been wearing a helmet for about 5 years now, only needed it once.  Like
most people I never liked wearing it but knew I should.  However I just bought
myself a Giro and I'm in heaven!

Before getting something heavy like the Stratos just for the visor may I
suggest that you get one of the new lighter helmets and wear a cycling cap
under it.  Personally I just wear sun glasses but I've noticed European racers
wearing caps under their "hair net" helmets.

    	A visor is available for the Vetta Corsa helmet.
    	I prefer sunglasses, because they also keep wind, dust, and
    bugs out of you eyes.
    
    /Nick

    The only good reason for getting a helmet for a visor is that you
    can use it in the rain where goggles just get all covered with water
    so you can't see through them.
    
    ed

    Hey guys thanks for the information,
    I have hung around alot of bike shops and never heard this much
    information about helmets. My thinking is probably to get one of
    those hats that I can wear under the helmet. 
    
    FRED MUDGETT 

    RE: .-2 etc.
    
    Yes, visor does help out in rain.  But, no that's not the only
    reason.  Shading the eyes does what even the most sophisticated
    eyewhere can in reducing eye-strain and heat over a long ride
    in a sunny climate, or a multi-day ride.  
    
    I use polaroid shades in addition to the visor, but am unwilling
    to give up the visor.  And this is a problem.  I, too, have an
    ancient Bell tour helmet, with the adjustable visor.  The Stratos
    visor is a joke - it is not meant as a shade, but a true "visor"
    - you look *through* it.  Moreover, it was so well designed that
    in its *up* (out of service) position, it blocks the frontal air
    vents.
    
    The previous replies contain good advice - maybe it really does
    pay to get a truly light helmet and wear biking caps underneath.
    I've seen that combination, too, in Europe.

    -john

    	Some interesting statistics published in today's
    New England Journal of Medicine (I heard this on the radio):
    
    	Bicyclists with helmets receive 85% fewer head injuries.
    	65% of bicycling head injuries occur to people under age 15.

    I heard this also on Paul Harvey news no less. 
     I also saw in USA Today a week or so a go where only 2% of bicyclists
    wear helmets. What an incredibly low number.

    I'm not surprised by that number at all.  Probably 99.5% of bicyclists
    are under the age of 16.  Mom and Dad popped for the bike ($89.95
    at K-Mart) and $60 on top of that for a helmet (if they even think
    of it) just doesn't seem reasonable.  After all Mom and Dad didn't
    wear helmets when THEY were kids.....
    
    
    Larry (who wears one and who popped for a couple for his kids)

    Several weeks ago I was visiting family in upstate NY, and went
    for a bike ride on a path which follows the Mohawk River.  I stopped
    to help two young (about 12-14 yrs old) kids fix their bike.  The
    whole front fork and wheel were bent beyond roadside repair.  I
    asked them how this happened, and they told me how they were going
    down this steep pitch, and one of them hit a post tire first, throwing
    the kid off the bike head first into the pole.  He was walking around
    not realizing how lucky he was not to be injured.  I'm glad he was
    one of those small percentage of kids who wear helmets.

    Another plug for helmets.  Last week in the Appleblossom ride I
    crashed going up a hill (18 MPH or so) and whacked my head on the 
    pavement.  An indentation to the Styrofoam of my Performance helmet
    was the only damage to my helmet (the bike wasn't as fortunate).
    I walked away with minor scrapes and no head injury.  
    
    About a month ago a friend of mine crashed during a training ride
    at about 25 MPH and smacked the ground with a whiplash motion. 
    His Giro helmet burst apart after absorbing the impact, but he walked
    away with his head intact.
                  
    By the way, when I hit my head, the Lycra cover tore away, but the
    helmet didn't stick to the pavement.  I've heard there's a concern
    that Foam only helmets may stick.  The Lycra stuck, but I think
    the foam slid.
    Without a helmet we may have had a concussion or worse.  With a
    helmet the only thing that hurts is the road rash from the street.
    
    

    I wear my old (15yrs) Bell helmet every time I ride - would never think
    about going out without it.  I have a question, however.  Itseems that
    if I tighten the strap enough to have the helmet fit nice and snug, the
    strap chokes me.  If I wear it so it is comfortable, the helmet can
    slide around on my head.  I keep thinking that if I took a good fall,
    the helmet could slide around on my head and leave the part of my head
    that hits something exposed - useless helmet if it is covering the part
    of my head that is not in danger.  Is this just how helmets work??  Or
    should they be snug - maybe get new foam-stick-um pads inside?  I have
    to admit that I like to have it loose enough to move it around to
    scratch my head when I think a bug has gotten in there through the air
    vents...       What to do here??           \VA

>>    vents...       What to do here??           \VA

The helmet should fit snug, even with the chin strap a little loose. It's the
first bounce that will save your head. The helmet will move during this impact.
In doing so it takes the impact. I keep my strap loose enough to open my mouth
all the way, but tight enough to keep me from taking it off without loosening
the strap.

re last few.

There is a commercial on TV that shows a kid riding his bike and getting into
an accident with a guy playing football in the street. The mellon that he was
carrying home from the market is shown hitting the pavement (splat). Then they
cut to him getting up with the helmet on, and the guy that bumped into him
apologizing and congradulating him for his intelligence on wearing a helmet.

All the time the narrator talks about the stats on deaths due to head injurys
on bike for kids under the age on 16.

They get the message across.

    >.19:
    >Itseems that
    >if I tighten the strap enough to have the helmet fit nice and snug, the
    >strap chokes me.
    
    Have you tried adjusting the position of the two three-point gizmos
    that attach the helmet straps to the chin straps? You can slide these
    back and forth, and move the position of the chin strap forward and
    backward. I have exactly the same kind of helmet, and tightening the
    chin strap just catches me under the jaw, but doesn't mash my windpipe.
    
    --Dan
    

      Okay, I finally did it. I got bored with taking everyone's word for
      it and decided to do some real-world helmet testing of my own.
      Coming onto a roundabout at about 30-35 kph, I hit a patch of
      dampness. The next thing I remember, I was walking around in the
      middle of the roundabout, thinking of retrieving my bike from the
      middle of the road. I was very fortunate; most of the injuries were
      reaonably superficial. Now, only 12 days later, there are only a
      few scars and one loose tooth. Also, as I was almost at work, there
      were several people who stopped and helped me out. Within fifteen
      minutes, I was in the ambulance and on my way to the emergency
      ward. 
      
      The nagging question in the back of my mind is will my helmet take
      another knock like that? It's a Bell V1-pro and shows minimal signs
      of the impact. A bit scratched on the front right edge and that's
      it. However, I know that motorcyclists routinely destroy a helmet
      after one impact and get a new one. Obviously, it's not reasonable
      to assume that bicycle accidents parallel motorcycle ones. So, what
      criteria do you apply to decide whether to replace a helmet or not? 
      
      Thanks for all your help.
      Tim
      
      By the way, I was glad I'd replaced my Skid-Lid last year. That's
      what happens when you buy a helmet before the Snell and ANSI
      approval process started up. 

    Why take a chance? If and when I take a spill on my current helmet I'll
    retire it and get a new one. I might keep the old one as a trophy
    (remember Gerry Cheevers' mask with all the stitches painted on it?),
    but I don't think I'd risk it caving in on a second impact.
    
    Just one opinion....
    
    	/Harry

    	I agree with -1.  The foam lining on the V1 was only
    designed to absorb the energy from a *single* impact.
    Time to retire it to the mantle.
    
    						Jerry
    
    BTW:  Too bad Bell doesn't re-line their helmets like 
    	  L.L. Beans resoles their boots when the bottoms 
          wear out :-)

      Send it back to Bell and they will put in a new liner for less
    than the cost of a new V-1 Pro.  I know a few people that have done
    this.  I for one will be sending mine back.  This past spring I
    was riding my cyclo-cross bike along a dirt road that was ice covered.
    I was picking my way around the icy spots at about 10 mph when the
    next thing I new I was on my head.  What I thought was dirt was
    actually crystal clear ice.  I went done so fast that my head hit
    first.  I looked at the helmet and it looked fine but when I got
    home I flexed it and opened up a crack that went all the way to
    the hardshell.  
      When you send it back they inspect the helmet and then pull out
    the old liner and put in a new one.  If you want the helmet inspected
    just for peace of mind they will do that as well.  for a charge
    I'm sure.  If a bike shop gives you a line of bull about this the
    helmet can be sent directly to Bell.
    
    					Norm

    Either retire the helmet or send it back to Bell for retreading.
    
    It's only designed to work ONCE...
                                                   
    	-Bill

	In case anyone is interested, the May 1990 issue of Consumer Reports
	contains a rating of bicycle helmets.

	FWIW: Of 34 models tested, the Bell Quest was rated the best adult
	helmet for "estimated quality based on safety, ease of use, and 
	comfort"

	The Avenir hardshell and Avenir Advantage were rated unacceptable
	due to "roll-off", the Monarch Areo-jet was rated unacceptable due
	to failing the impact test and the Spalding Youth was rated 
	unacceptable due to poor design (didn't cover forhead) and failing
	"roll-off".

	I post this for information only and do not claim to agree or disagree
	with the results. Check your local library for the details.

	-tom

    This seems an appropriate note to (once more, nothing new) reinforce
    the value of helmets. On May 27th I took a spill on Monument Street in
    Concord MA (hit sand going downhill trying to avoid some patches, and
    went down at about 15mph). Fractured pelvis in two places, plenty of
    abrasions on my left side. (Bike, Trek 1500, came through intact - we
    separated in mid-air, and it had more sense than me and headed for the
    grass while I came down on the pavement.)

    Yesterday I finally got around to looking at the bike and helmet (which
    someone had strapped to the seat). I suspected I might have hit my head
    (no recollection of the moment of impact) because one of the larger
    abrasions was on my left shoulder. My head had no damage at all save a
    small bruise on the forehead where the helmet sat. The helmet (I found)
    has significant scraping on the shell (takes some doing; that's *hard*
    plastic), and the foam liner is broken clear through in four places.

    I don't like to think what my head would have looked like without the
    helmet.

    For what it's worth, it's a Bell V1-Pro, which will now be put out to
    stud.     

     Okay, this is my last entry on the subject. I'm going to offend 
    some folks, but I really don't care...
    
     I was out for a ride Saturday morning with a buddy. Toward the end
    of the ride we happened upon a women who had just fallen from her
    bicycle (we were on Rte. 101 in Ashburnham). We were the first people
    on the scene that showed except for the folks that lived in the houses
    on either side.
    
     What had happened was she rode onto the sand (soft shoulder), the bars
    cocked and she went over the front. She was wearing a helmet. She never
    regained consciousness. Fortunately, 5 minutes passsed and a doctor
    stopped with his family, then the rest, police EMT's...
    
     I can tell you right now, no helmet, no life! They would have been
    zipping her up in a body bag instead. And I really don't want to hear
    about the rubbish like, "she should have been paying attention" and
    the rest of the moronic rhetoric. There aren't any of us, who put on
    any kind of miles, who haven't had that kind of fade to the side
    happen to us. I consider myself cautious, but to hold high levels of
    awareness and concentration after 50-100 miles is tough. I can tell
    you that when you see this kind of thing, it makes a difference. It's
    even closer when it's you (and my life was saved by a helmet).
    
     Now, here it comes... You people who even share your views in down-
    playing the importance of wearing a helmet are just plain dangerous!
    If you don't want to wear, then don't. But don't even tell us how
    opposed you are. There are people who read these notes and who are
    on the fence about the merits. It's unfortunate that certain people
    get caught up in the "it's my life and no one can mandate to me"
    attitude versus recognizing the smart thing to do. WEAR IT! I would
    support mandatory helmet enforcement in a heartbeat. To me, it's the
    same thing when regulating laws to save the public from itself, e.g.
    controlled substances, driving under the influence, etc... because
    a lot of the public are to ignorant to take care of themselves.
    
     Go ahead, come and get me... Strong, yeah! It's a strong entry, but
    I just had to say it! Rip me up... Like I stated, it's my last entry.
    I'm just extremely angry right now, I just don't get the argument and
    never will... Ther should a commercial stating "this ISN'T brain after
    an accident without a helmet" and "this is your brain after an
    accident with a helmet"....
    
     CHIP  

    Well, Chip, you gotta look at it like this, Folks who don't want to
    wear a helmet, don't have anything to protect.
    
    And, no, I won't include a smiley.
    
    ed

    Tell us how you really feel, Chip; None of this beating around the
    bush.
    
    Regards,
    Phil

    re .29:
    
    DAMN STRAIGHT!
    
    Last Labor Day I did the same thing the woman you spoke of did. 
    Swerved to avoid a kid, went off the edge of the bike path, and over
    the handlebars.  The first thing to hit was my shoulder (separated). 
    The second was my head - I HEARD the crunch when the helmet hit the
    pavement.  One look at the helmet when I sat up made me a little sick
    to think of what my skull would have looked like.  
    
    Needless to say - I DON'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!
    
    And, having seen some of the information on the hardshell helmets - how
    they are better at multiple impact protection and piercing impacts, I'm
    planning on replacing the soft shells with hardshells this year. 
    They're as cheap and light as softshell helmets now anyway.
    
    BTW:  The message MUST be getting through - I've been on several
    organized rides this year, and conservatively 90% of the riders on
    these rides have been wearing helmets - everybody from the A riders to
    3 year-olds in trailers, to casual riders on 1-speeds - all wearing
    helmets - and these ARE NOT AYH rides or anything where helmets are
    mandatory!  Impressive.

    When we  were  on  Nantucket this month I thought we were the only
    ones  wearing  helmets.  I  hadn't seen so few helmets anywhere in
    this  country  in  10  years.  I think the problem may be that the
    places  that  rent  bikes  (often quite good mountain bikes) don't
    offer helmets.

--David

    	I just returned from a vacation in Ohio. I didn't see
    	anyone wearing a helmet (I wear one). I was somewhat
    	dismayed, but, like one of the previous notes said,
    	if you don't have a brain, you don't need a helmet.
    
    	Scott

    OK, my 2 cents.  Chuck Yeager wears his seatbelt.  On a commercial
    plane, during the safety presentation (which all HIP travelers ignore),
    I saw a Marine F-18 pilot reading along with his little safety sheet and
    checking for the emergency exits. In my old motocross days (early 70s),
    the fast guys always wore helmets wherever they went; the guys who
    couldn't perform ON the track were the only ones who raced through the
    pits (hence the name "pit racers") and didn't wear helmets.
    
    It seems very clear that there's no macho involved here; it's a matter
    of stakes and odds.
    
    Charlie

    It's been a very long time since I saw a Boston Bruins hockey team on
    the ice without helmets. Ice is kinda like concrete and asphalt - the
    head almost always loses!
    
    -Paul

	RE: .36
	
	Helmets are required in the NHL. Only players who were in the 
	league prior to the rule can go without.

    
    I had a little crash this weekend myself.  The cyclist in front of me
    decided to stop.  I had three choices, the road (very busy and the
    Stowe accident went quickly through my mind), hit the other cyclist
    (and still risk going into the street), or over the curb onto the side
    walk.  I choose the sidewalk.  I was just about off the bike at crash
    point.  Left it unharmed at curbside.  I dove onto the pavement landing
    on my hand then right on my head, but I always wear a helmet!  Other
    than a VERY sore hand and a 2" piece of road rash on my shoulder, there
    isn't a scratch or bruise on the rest of me.  This was the second impact 
    on this Bell tourlite (hard shell) so I'm shopping for another while the 
    hand heals.  For the 100 - 150 grams more that a hardshell weighs, I think
    it's well worth it.  I slid about 12' on my head.  I would think a 
    soft shell would shred apart... but I've never tried it and don't think
    I want to. 
    
    
    another reason **I** wear my helmet.  There was another cyclist with us
    that didn't wear gloves or a helmet.  He is now wearing them.  I didn't
    have to say anything.

    How often  should  one replace a helmet? I know you're supposed to
    replace  them  after  each  crash,  but  I haven't crashed since I
    bought  my  helmet  5  years  ago,  and  I'm wondering if I should
    replace  it.  I guess I'm concerned about degradation caused by UV
    light.  Should I be?

--David

         I am not sure about the soft helmets, but I have had my old
         fashioned tank-like Bell Biker for about 15 years. It is
         still solid. I have no doubt it will last many more years.
         I have long been tired if it but I just can't justifiy
         replacing it when it still is in such good shape.

         JC

    The Bicycle Helmet Manufacturors Association recommends replacing
    your helmet if it's over 5 years old because the plastic degrades over
    time so that it's no longer as good as it once was.
    
    Whether this is marketing hype or fact is anyone's guess.  I imagine
    that if there were a real chance that the helmet could no longer pass
    the safety tests they'd make more noise about it to protect themselves
    from liability.
    
    ed

    
    RE: -.1
    
    I love it.  I wonder if I can convice my wife that my Cannondale has
    degraded after six years, and now it's time to replace it.
    
    	Dave

    Material degradation with age is probably not as a big an issue 
    with old helmets as the shortcomings of their design.  Older helmets
    (like the notorious "skid lid") don't provide much impact protection.  
    If you've got an old type, it's probably a good idea to upgrade
    even if it's in perfect condition.
    
    MATT

         re: -.1

         I hear what you are saying with regards to updating old
         designs etc. But man, my Bell Biker is one heavy duty
         helmet. In fact, the weight is the biggest detractor, aside
         from the fact that they look like turtle shells. I guess
         the V1PRO is a evolution from the Biker.

         I feel pretty well protected in the Biker. It is ugly
         though.... 

         JC

    re. Aluminum degrading:  In fact, Aluminum does degrade (loose strength
    with age). Steel does initially, but then retains it's strength. Find
    a Strength of Materials text and look up Fatigue Life. Note the
    difference in shapes in the curves for steel and aluminum. That's why
    I won't buy an aluminum bike. Titanium, carbon fiber, or steel, yes,
    but aluminum, no.  - Chris

    I think the Bell Biker and Tourlite's passed the specifications of the
    standards when they were being marketed.  Skidlid didn't and stopped
    being sold when the specs became a standard.
    
    ed

    I was on a ride this weekend with the Charles River Wheelsman and
    overheard a guy (not wearing a helmet) try to rationalize why it makes
    on difference whether you wear a helmets or not.
    
    He made comments, which I didn't totally hear (or understand), about
    most head injuries being from secondary impacts.
    
    Finally another ride said "if I were to take a baseball bat and hit you
    in the head, wouldn't you rather be wearing a helmet?" His response was
    "I would block the bat with my hand."  
    
    Like it's been said before;
    
           "People with something to protect wear helmets."
    
    Have a safe 4th!

    re .38  Bell Tourlite's are on sale from Nashbar at $26 or
    thereabouts...  they're on the back cover; some sort of closeout.
    I like mine, although it is heavy, ugly, and the straps can't easily be
    cleaned.  Saved my neck once though.  It was sent back to Bell and
    got a clean bill of health.

    
    	When I bought my helmet about 5 years ago I read that the plastic
    used in helmets like the V1 should be replaced every 5 years or
    so do to VU rays. The polycarb plastic used in some helmets like
    the vetta corsa is not affected by VU. Can't comment on the soft
    shell because they didn't sell them back then, not in Canada anyways.
    
    
    			Gumby

         I have seen a couple of recent references to UV light
         degrading the plastic shell of helmets over time,
         recommendations that they be replaced periodically.

         In technical terms, what exactly would happen to a 15 year
         old bell biker? I Guess I am a bit surprised at the time
         frames we are talking about here. I figured the helmet
         would pretty much stay as it is for hundreds of years like
         all of the other plastics on the planet.

         I understand that UV can damage the plastic, but how?

         What about all of the hot summers sitting in my garage?

         This helmet doesn't appear to be degraded in any way
         except a little wear.


         JC

>>         I understand that UV can damage the plastic, but how?

I don't think it's the plastic that degrades but the styrofoam liner inside.
When it is new the styrofoam is soft and spongy. As it gets older it loses its
spongyness and gets hard and brittle. When this happens the helmet loses its
ability to absorb impacts that it could when new.

Tom

    Call the manufacturer of your old helmet and ask him if it degrades. 
    If the answer is maybe then suggest a trade of your old helmet so they
    can research the issue.  If the answer is no ask if they would be
    willing to test yours in trade for a new one since to answer the
    question they would have to destroy the helmet.
    
    By the time the padding gets worn and the shell gets scratched it is
    time to get a new helmet anyway.

fwiw:

i read an article in the paper about uv light destroying all kinds of stuff 
on the trans-antarctic crossing.  because the hole in the ozone layer is 
there all kinds of extra precautions were needed.  one person was badly 
badly burned within four hours when he didn't use sunblock.  people's 
clothes literally disintegrated.  anyway, i usually don't hype up the 
paranoid types but it sounds like uv could have some effect over time.

craig

     I'd like to hear more on aluminum degrading/breakdowns/fatigue.
    I'm not sure I'm buying the aluminum story only because the
    aerospace industry has, and continues to use aluminum extensive-
    ly. I'm sure an industry with a safety consideration such as
    aircraft manufacturers would have not remotely considered some-
    thing like aluminum if had those attributes.
    
     Any metal, ferrous or non-ferrous fatigues under stress. The im-
    portant information is how much stress and over how much time.
    
     I bought "aluminum" and proud of it!  :-)
    
        Chip
     

Most types of plastic degrade over time due to things like loss of 
"plasticizers" and breaking up of polymer chains, etc. UV can catalyze 
such changes. Look at some old plastic that's been outside for a couple 
years, frequently it'll look OK but tear/snap/shatter/crumble in your 
hands. Anywhee, that's how I heard it, any chemists out there can 
surely improve. Independent of this note (I just got back from vacation) 
I have just started planning to replace my 15-yr. old helmet; seems fine 
(and a batch better than nothing) but I just don't trust it anymore! 
Hardly seems worth chancing your head to an antique piece of plastic... 
'specially when they're so cheap to replace.
                                               ken

	re: aluminum degrading (a little off the base subject!)

	The way I understand it, steel has some sort of threshold inherent
	to it.  As long as the flex (strain) never exceeds that threshold
	there is no weakening of the material.  There's no such threshold
	for aluminum.  ANY flex causes a degradation.  My gut feel is that
	this degradation is miniscule and can pretty much be ignored for
	the type of flex a bicycle frame sees in normal use.  I don't 
	really know if, after many years of riding, a frame's characteristics
	might change due to this. (wouldn't want to clutter this note up
	with facts!)

	chris

    
    The service life metric for aircraft (airfoil, fuselage, frame, toilet
    facilities) is in "cycles" - the number of take-offs and landings.
    This is where the most stress occurs, apparently.
    
    Can the same principle be applied to bikes?  Does that mean that
    stop-and-go ("your mileage may vary") biking is worse than
    ultramarathons for your bike?  What about sprinters?
    
    Something to think about!
    
    -john

    
    	I've been as heavy as 240 lbs. and put a minimum of 1000
    miles a year on my old C-Dale.  I traded the frame in on a
    new 3.0 crit frame this year, after 4 years of abuse on Cow
    Hampshires back roads.  If aluminum fatigue is a real factor
    in longevity on bike frames, I would think that my frame would
    have crumbled the last time I hit the railroad tracks barreling
    down a hill at 35 mph.
    						_Jerry
    
    Maybe I really should chrome the stays just to be on the safe side :-)

     Don't forget the Turtle Wax (just for added stiffness).
    
      Another Happy C-Dale owner...

    	Well, as some of you know, I bought a TREK 1400 aluminum
    	in April of this year. At 265 pounds, I'm assuming that
    	I will be testing the limits of this bike. So far, no
    	problems.
    
    	Scott

    When I was at MIT I took a bunch of courses on materials and metallurgy
    and can shed some light on aluminum fatigue.
    
    All materials fatigue when they are stressed and unstressed. The
    degradation in strength and/or stiffness usually decreases and in some
    materials appears to be asymtotic.
    
    A good materials manual will have graphs of the fatigue characteristics
    of the most common metal alloys and you can also get this information
    from the manufacturer of the material.
    
    Some of the really stiff aluminum alloys (like those used in arrow
    shafts) actually become stiffer with time until they become very
    brittle. A year or so ago there were problems with really old 727's
    that were sometimes linked to metal fatigue.
    
    It is easy to find aluminum that has asymtotic or nearly asymtotic
    fatigue characteristics. I would be willing to bet that Cannondale (and
    the others as well) has done it's homework and found such a material.
    
    	Marty Sasaki

>    brittle. A year or so ago there were problems with really old 727's
>   that were sometimes linked to metal fatigue.
>    It is easy to find aluminum that has asymtotic or nearly asymtotic
>    fatigue characteristics. I would be willing to bet that Cannondale (and
>    the others as well) has done it's homework and found such a material.
    
 Thanks Marty,
    
    	I was really getting concerned about all those gonzo
    front wheel landings I've been doing lately :-)
    
    						_Jerry

    
      So what does all this have to do with helmets ??
    
     John C.
    

    I don't know John, but back to helmets...
    
    My orthopedic, who also rides, commented on soft shell helmets.  He
    stated that they don't skid like hard shells or shred like I thought
    they would.  They stick therefore causing more neck injuries.  I
    bought another tourlite from Nashbar, thanks for the pointer!  It's
    gonna be another 2-3 weeks before I can ride again though, but I can
    move two fingers now!!!
    
    Melanie
    
      

I keep hearing how styrofoam helmets will "stick" to the road and therefore
cause more neck injuries.  My question is, is there any factual basis for this
claim or is it just a wives-tales that we're spreading?

True they may not slide quite as well as a true hard shell but the idea of them
really gripping the road is not very accurate either.

    
    re. .64   See note 836 for discussion of foam helmet 'problems'. The
    last I've heard is that the foam helmets can stick on initial impact,
    causing a rapid rotation of the head. It seems that the damage this
    does is not to the neck, but to the veins and arteries connecting the
    brain to the body (the brain kinda floats inside the skull like a raw
    egg in a cup. Twist the cup rapidly and the egg will lag behind. The
    brain does similar when the skull is rotated very rapidly. This puts
    stress on the connections between the brain and the rest of the body:
    the veins and arteries, the spinal cord, and the optic and aural nerves.
    The veins and arteries are the most susceptible to damage from this
    action). The new micro-shell foam helmets are much better than the all
    foam ones in this respect. - Chris
           ps. The study was done at Iowa State. It should be out (recently
    or soon). Info recieved at LAW National Rally workshop. - C

    I don't know if there is any hard data to back this, but I don't
    want to be the statistic.  

	I believe it was the May issue of Bicycling magazine that
	had an article on helmets.  They described the testing done
	for helmet sticking.

	Doug

     Re; .68  Actually they said some company was developing equipment
              that would be able to test the ability of the helmet to
              stay put on the subsequent bounces... Can't remember the
              name, but they said it would be utilized soon...
    
    
              Always Wear Your Headgear! 

    I sent  a  card to Bell, and they say "The shelf life for any Bell
    helmet  is  eight  (8) years... However, I recomme{d that you send
    your  helmet  to our factory for a free inspection to reassure you
    of its safety."

The factory address is:

	Bell Bicycle Inc.
	Rt 136 East
	Rantoul,  IL   61866

The phone number for questions is 1-800-456-BELL


--David

    
    "Shelf life"???
    
    What does that mean?  Does the helmet benefit from regular 
    exercise (that is, riding atop your head) out in the sun
    and fresh air?  Or will it deteriorate faster?
    
    I guess Bell is saying it can't predict what the outdoors
    will do to the helmet, but still I didn't think helmets
    would die by themselves indoors.  Hmmm... so I guess I can
    scrap my attempts to age-harden helmets � la tubulars,
    by keeping them in the dark.  :-)
    
    -john

    I typed  in a direct quote from their letter, so I can't expand on
    it. Give them a call, and let us know what they say.

--David

If'n you need a crash hat, I just noticed that EMS is having a sale of 
20% off of assorted bike parts, incl. helmets, and some riding 
clothing, etc. from 8/2 til 8/12.

Note that I have a vested interest in your buying from EMS, as the corp. 
HQ is in my town, and if you buy enough, they'll get rich, pay all the 
town taxes, and I can live there for free :-).

Related to the above, I'm planning to pick up a Bell V1Pro tomorrow to 
replace my aged MSR. Any grand reason I should/shouldn't get one? Seems 
like it would be both cooler and lighter than my MSR, tho not as much as 
some of the recent designs, but I'm wondering if anyone's had particular 
problems....
                              ken

>>Related to the above, I'm planning to pick up a Bell V1Pro tomorrow to 
>>replace my aged MSR. Any grand reason I should/shouldn't get one? Seems 
>>like it would be both cooler and lighter than my MSR, tho not as much as 
>>some of the recent designs, but I'm wondering if anyone's had particular 
>>problems....
  
I had one before I bought a Giro. It was a good helmet for squirting water on
your head but as far as cooler and lighter... It felt like it was made out of
iron compared to the Giro. A good helmet though.

Another helmet tested to its limits story... 

My brother crashed and destroyed his Bell Stratus (the one that looked like a 
TT helmet). He was still unconscious when the meat wagon came. He came to when 
they were strapping him onto the body board. They checked him over and found 
him to be acting strange, but we assured the doctors this was normal behavior.
He checked his helmet when he got home and found a few white stress creases in
the blue plastic. "Boy that could have been my skull that cracked instead of
this", he said. But my father piped up and said,"Hey, you can't hurt a DeLoriea
by hitting him in the head." Still, I'll wear my helmet. My brother is now the
owner of my V1 Pro and I hope he never has to test it out. 

Ps He hit a road grate that was parallel to the road. Like a mail slot to the
front wheel.

Tom

    re [.-1] I can't speak from experience, 'cause the Gyro is the first
    helmet I've owned, but I did try on a variety of others and the Gyro
    was certainly the most comfortable, at least on my pointed head.  The
    first couple of rides I actually found myself getting slightly
    disoriented when I'd reach up to scratch/wipe my head & encountered the
    helmet - it's so unobtrusive I'm actually unaware that I'm wearing it.
    Very light, very close fit, and VERY well ventilated.  Expensive, I'll
    admit, but I figured a lower $$$ helmet that I'd refuse to wear would
    ultimately end up being more expensive.

>    Very light, very close fit, and VERY well ventilated.  Expensive, I'll
>    admit, but I figured a lower $$$ helmet that I'd refuse to wear would
>    ultimately end up being more expensive.

Hmm. Anyone know of a good price on an AirAttack in the SoNH area? I saw 
'em at Gamaches in Fitch last wkend for about 70$, I think, but Fitch is 
a bit out-of-the-way for me generally. The V1Pro is 48 at EMS (on sale, 
starting today) and seems quite light compared to the MSR I've been 
wearing for 15 years; ain't NO problem getting this boy to wear his 
crash hat! I may also pick up one of the all-foam jobbers for when a 
super-light is apropos, like the Bell Spectrum (34.95 at EMS, if ya need 
one).....
                                    ken

    That sounds like a good price - I paid eighty-something at Lincoln.  

> Hmm. Anyone know of a good price on an AirAttack in the SoNH area? I saw 
> 'em at Gamaches in Fitch last wkend for about 70$, I think, but Fitch is 

    I think Goodale's in Nashua and the Chelmsford Cyclery in Chelmsford
    are selling them for similar prices.

	Sharon

     I bought mine at Gamaches... It wasn't about $70.00. It was in the 
    $80.00 range ($89.00+tax)...
    
     Check again...
    
        Chip

>     I bought mine at Gamaches... It wasn't about $70.00. It was in the 
>    $80.00 range ($89.00+tax)...
    
Hmmmm, very well coulda been - I looked at a number of hats there, and I 
wasn't there primarily to look at hats, so my memory sieve probably 
filtered out the correct numbers.... didn't mean to get everyone's hopes 
up!
                        ken

    Gamache used to give a 10% discount to anyone who was a member of a
    bike club.  Any club.  :-)
    
    ed

Well, it's helmets again. When I was looking at the v1pro helmets at EMS 
the other day, one on the shelf felt kinda funny, just holding it. Poof! 
the styrofoam liner popped out in my hand! Became a completely separate 
unit from the straps/outside hard shell. Seemed kinda strange, esp. 
since there was evidence of glue holding the styro to the hardshell, but 
I figured it was a goofup in mfg. or something. So I bought one last 
night, took it home and --- poof! the styro liner almost fell right out.
I think I'm gonna call Bell today, as well as returning the helmet and
getting SOMETHING else! I guess these would be safe to ride in, since the 
hardshell & straps really hold everything together, but I'm just not 
that impressed that 2 out of 6 units on the shelf failed in my hands!

                                          ken

>>hardshell & straps really hold everything together, but I'm just not 
>>that impressed that 2 out of 6 units on the shelf failed in my hands!

   Did the foam liner just fall out or did it require a slight pull. I ask
because I thought it was a feature. I needed to clean my helmet after if fell
onto beach sand. There was sand in between the liner and shell so...


Tom

    	From VeloNews Volume 19, Number 13, Page 7:
    
    	Bell Bicycle, Inc., has decided to forstall market introduction
    	of their Premier helmet, which they have described as "a
    	major technological breakthrough." Bell has its research and
    	development mavens working "many hours" to try to get the
    	helmet back in production by October. "There are still things
    	we can do that others can't," said Bill Armas, national sales
    	director for the Norwalk, California-based company. "I don't
    	want to give away trade secrets in order to specify what exactly
    	 it is that's wrong with the helmets."
    
    	One less circumspect employee, however, divulged that outer
    	coating and inner liner densities were not consistent. What
    	sort of problem this presents, we don't know, but we do know
    	that "the more we (Bell) made, the worse the problem," according
    	to Armas. The Premiere also weighs in a tad heavy, being closer
    	to seven ounces than the desired six (for a size small helmet).
    	Declining to give a figure specifying Bell's investment in the
    	Premiere, Armas did say the investment was "substantial. It was
    	a big part of last year's push, but our other products did well
    	and pulled us through. Our cost is considerably higher than we
    	forecast, and we're going to take it on the margin."
    
    	Scott

>   Did the foam liner just fall out or did it require a slight pull. I ask
>because I thought it was a feature. I needed to clean my helmet after if fell
>onto beach sand. There was sand in between the liner and shell so...

I called Bell this a.m. and they assured me that it was a defect, and 
"was covered under warranty, must be a bad batch of glue, just send it 
in...". Yeah, right! I'm gonna walk it back to EMS tonite! They also 
said I should tell EMS to return the whole batch to their distributor, 
which I did, but I just get this feeling I'll go in tonite and they'll 
all be there on the shelves....

I did have to pull "a little", say maybe as hard as pulling out my 
wallet to get a credit card (i.e. drops out at the slightest provocation 
:-) )....
                            ken

Well, the latest (final?) in the "ken-gets-a-crash-hat" saga .... went 
to Goodale's in Nashua Friday nite to see what they had, saw & liked the 
Giro Hammerhead, tho it's supposedly a "mountain bike helmet" for some 
reason... told the salesguy there I'd had bad luck with the V1pro hats, 
so he brought one out, and Poof! the lining fell out. More ooops! 
Anyway, I went over the EMS/Pheasant later, they had the Hammerhead for 
a fair bit cheaper than Goodale's, plus I had to trade in the defective 
V1-P I'd gotten before, so.... rode the H-head the first time Sunday; 
was extremely comfortable and seemed lighter than the old hat, just miss 
my helmet mirror. Have to work on that.....
                                            ken

>>just miss my helmet mirror. Have to work on that.....
  
Do you know that Rhode Gear and Third Eye both make a foam helmet mirror?
Never bought one so I can't recommend one or the other. $9.95 for Rhode Gear
and $6.50 for Third Eye in the NASHBAR cat'.

         re:-.2

         Funny you should mention the Giro Hammerhead. I bought two
         at Landry's in Westboro on Friday. They had a grand opening sale
         after all :-). ( I was complaining about no opening sale in
         a trailer note...)

         I bought one for me and one for my wife. They were $59.95
         each plus I had a $5 coupon from the paper. The regular
         price on these was around $80.  Alas, I can now retire my 15
         year old Bell Biker. What a difference! One advantage I see
         for the Hammerhead is that there are so many sizes that it
         is very likely that you will get a better fit than with
         some of the other brands. We took two rides last weekend
         and we loved them. Took a while to get the straps right
         though.

         The folks at Landry's had a very different view on these
         helmets. They said that they would not recommend using this
         helmet for mountain biking. They felt that there was a good
         chance of screwing up th helmet when it is poked by
         branches etc. They all used hard shells like the V1 Pro for
         off road riding... 

         Different Strokes....

         JC

>Do you know that Rhode Gear and Third Eye both make a foam helmet mirror?
>Never bought one so I can't recommend one or the other. $9.95 for Rhode Gear
>and $6.50 for Third Eye in the NASHBAR cat'.

I saw some foam-helmet mirrors at Gamaches for about 8$ or so, just need 
to get them and the helmet together, see if they work. After riding a 
helmet mirror for 15 years, I find I can get 'snuck up on' by things 
like other bikers and cars. Gotta get my rear-vision going again!
                            ken

While we're on helmets, a friend who reads the MOTORcycles notes 
mentioned that he read a note there indicating that Maryland has passed 
a mandatory BICYCLE helmet law. Anyone know anything about this for 
real, what the law is, and/or any comments one way or the 'tother...

                                ken

    A blurb in one of the magazine mentioned it also.  They report that it
    specifies a $50.00 fine for the first offense, and a $100.00 fine for
    further transgressions.  It also is said to apply to both adults and
    children (I'm asuming that the parents get the fine), as opposed to
    similar laws being considered in New Jersey and elsewhere that apply
    only to minors.

    There is  a  bicycle helmet law in the Mass. legislature, and it's
    given  a  very high chance of passing. I think the August issue of
    "WheelPeople"  (the  Charles  River  Wheelmen's newsletter) has an
    article  on  it asking people to call their representatives to try
    to make some changes to the bill.

--David

    I KNOW this is going to open a very emotional can of worms, but I'll
    ask anyway - how do you feel about these laws?  For my part - I'm
    really not sure.  On one hand, my first reaction to any of these "for
    my own good" legislations, is that the government should mind it's own
    business, and if I choose to crack my skull like an egg, well, why
    should they care?  On the other hand, it's been pointed out (with
    respect to motorcycle helmets), that when the guy with no helmet ends
    up in the hospital for months on end, we all end up paying the bill one
    way or another, so I suppose maybe that's a valid point.  
    
    	It's also a whole different issue where children are involved. 
    Sure, we have the right to make the decision not to protect our own
    skulls, but should we have the right to make that decision for our
    kids?  I recently bought a helmet for my daughter, and my next door
    neighbor observed that his wife had been pushing him to buy one for
    their son, but he felt that "I rode without one when I was a kid & I
    survived, and so will he".  Hmm, interesting argument.  Lots of kids
    grew up without lead poisoning, too, but nevertheless, it now seems
    prudent to refrain from painting at least our kid's toys, cribs, etc
    with lead paint.  Ditto with asbestos.  I don't know what the answer
    is, if I did maybe I'D be in Washington.

    I think one of the bad sides to these laws is that they raise the
    initial cost of cycling to a point that will prevent some people
    from participating or permitting their kids from participating.
    
    I do support the idea though.
    
    ed

    I think some local bike clubs should evaluate a public helmet donation
    program.  Think how many cyclists have last years generation helmet
    hanging around doing nothing.  Donating and channeling to the schools
    could  be a real successful program.
    
    PS: Maryland program has a provision whereby the fine is cancelled if
    you prove that you bought a helmet.  
    
    steve

Smokers:
Choose to do it and run the risk of more illness (not just Cancers) and cost us
all in health care........
Do we fine them?

Motorists:
Pollute the atmosphere and contribute to brain damage and the same costs....
Do we fine them?

Overweight people:
Well, I guess you get the drift........

Isn't making helmets compulsory taking the easy way, like saving pennies and
throwing away pounds (sterling), picking on a minority, etc, etc.....

              <<< Note 900.93 by CRBOSS::BEFUMO "IRAQnophobia" >>>
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^
						Good one :-)


Don't be suprised to see laws that protect the INSURANCE COMPANYS and just so
happen save lives in the process. The driving force behind these laws are the
Insurance Co.'s. They are not in the business for charitable reasons and if
they can cut claims by making a safer enviorment then everyone is supposed to
be happy. They passed a law in MAss to force people to drive wearing their seat
belts. This is proven to cut the over all $'s spent in claims thus making it
cheaper for the Insurance Co.'s to run the business. When it was repealed the 
Insurance Co.'s raised the premiums. The group lobbying for this and other
similar bills aren't interested in peoples choices, but saving a buck if they
can. And they have found a way to save a buck and save lives in the process.

It may sound cynical, but I don't think there would be such laws without it
hurting someones pocketbook. Someone is paying these lawyers to lobby.

Tom

    It is  my understanding that one of the things that CRW objects to
    in  the current bill (in Mass.) is that it makes failure to wear a
    helmet  contributory negligence in an accident. This means that if
    a  cyclist  gets  hit  by  a car, and wasn't wearing a helmet, the
    award will be reduced. I don't know of any seat belt law that went
    that far.

    If they're  going  to  do  that,  the least we could have is a law
    requiring people to look before opening their car doors, so if you
    ride into a car door that someone opened just in front of you, you
    don't have to pay for the door.

--David

>>< Note 900.93 by CRBOSS::BEFUMO "IRAQnophobia" >
>    with lead paint.  Ditto with asbestos.  I don't know what the answer
>    is, if I did maybe I'D be in Washington.

If you knew the answers, and let it be known, they'd post armed guards 
to keep you OUT of Washington - no fair messin' with a good thing (for 
them, anyway) :-)

   ken-who-figures-the-last-REAL-President-was-Teddy-Roosevelt

    guess you might have a point there - and I DO agree with you about TR!

    	Yes, and TR initially got in after McKinley was assassinated.
    
    	Who knows what woulda happened had he had to run through the
    	normal election process, at least the first time.
    
    	Scott

>    	Yes, and TR initially got in after McKinley was assassinated.
>    
>    	Who knows what woulda happened had he had to run through the
>    	normal election process, at least the first time.
    
Not to turn this into the TR note (wouldn't bother me, but...) but he 
was 'shoved' into the job as VP because the pol. bosses of the time 
found him outspoken and an embarassment, so they got him into the VP 
position which was considered pretty politically invisible and harmless 
at the time. Which it was, and still is by and large, but it's "only a 
heartbeat away...". The pol. bosses would have NEVER allowed TR to 
actually run for an office they thought he might actually get!

                  ken
                  (card-carrying member of T.R. Nature & History Ass'n.)

    
    
       If they try and force me to wear a helmet all the time. I am that
    much more likely not to wear one.  Just to defy the overbearing, overtaxing,
    overpaid, overeducated, underworked and unintelligent idiots who write
    the laws. 
    
    I Hate being controled.
    
    John C.
    

When you read this it should be like a breath of fresh air 
blowing through this conference so sit tight...

1. The explanation of TR's accention to the presidency was
correct. I have to chuckle at the kind of misery that republican
leaders he caused because of his liberal ideas and because of 
his stature he couldn't be ignored.

2. The law concerning helmet wearing was not passed by the 
State but rather by a yuppie infested County. This mess was 
started by a real weanie group who passed the rule saying it would
be for children. The law was covering all bike riders when it
was finally passed. They have recently recinded the law to cover
only children under 15.

3. My son and I were involved in a survey that counted the 
number of riders that wore helmets. We were in a couple of 
meetings that talked about what would be required of us numerators.
One of the guys at the meeting was a helmet law believer and was
a true believer. Hitler would have loved this kind of fanatic.

4. There was a group of people who tried to get a referendum to
retract this law. They were the usual bunch of liberty-type folks
who saw this as a restriction on freedom and you know I agreed with
them! 

5. Are you thinking, "as usual Fred has this problem clearly and 
plainly summed up, but what other than whining is he doing about 
it?" Well brace yourself for wisdom...I think its tragic that helmets
cost $40.00 or more. The bike shops around here haven't done anything to
encourage people to buy helmets. If government really wanted to make this
law work they would force all bike to be sold with a helmet thrown in. 
This doesn't have to be a Giro somethingorother but a basic one that 
will keep head from pavement. This fanatic guy told me that helmets can
be gotten for like $12.00 under some obscure program, yah sure, just like
there are billions in unused scolarships. Seat belts would never have been
added to cars if they weren't universally mandated. 

I and all my family wear a helmet because its an intellegent (though
dorky looking) thing to do. The only thing that is gained by passing
mandatory helmet laws is to give everyone in the world who don't ride 
bikes power over those of us who do ride. 

There, was that so hard to read? And you should feel much more correct
now,

Fred Mudgett  

         Well since this topic seems to be to hot spot of the week,
         I guess I'll jump on the band wagon and expound my
         enlightened philosophies on this all important subject.

         :-)  :-) :-)

         On restriction of liberties:

         Yeah I suppose a helmet law could be interpreted that way.
         But then so are any other laws (like the final version of
         the MD law) that restrict our youths' activities. For
         example not smoking or drinking under age, child seats
         mandatory for kids four and under. I don't hear too much
         public outcry on these fronts. It seems to me that the
         issue is restrictions of "adults'" freedom .

         I agree with the previous reply that the motivation here is
         money- period. The beneficial side effect of saving lives is
         serendipitous for the cause. But as the ACLU would say, its
         OK to let idiots kill themselves, we preserved their right
         to do so!

         Laws that restrict these kinds of liberties are much easier
         for me to live with than a lot of other issues around here.
         But, I am biased. I happen to *always* where a helmet and a
         seat belt. So these laws don't affect me in a direct way.
         But now I suppose I will have to be worry about the
         insidious governmental machine plotting to take my right to
         scratch my nose away from me.  :-)

         I'm sorry, but I'm just not that paranoid.....


         On making helmets part of the bike deal.

         One look at things from a business side should tell you
         that this could never work. Helmets are an industry. If you
         want to put your money where your mouth is, then call your
         representative and convince them to push for allocating
         some of your hard earned tax money to subsidize a helmet
         program. I think it is ridiculous to expect a profit and
         loss business to support this kind of thing. They don't do
         it for motorcycles, why should they do it for bikes?


         Bottom Line:

         If a helmet law will save money and lives, what the heck is
         wrong with that?

         Man I'm confused,

         JC

    Next will be the law that will require a license for bikes.  Lets
    say about $10 for 3 years.  This would be for ALL ages.
    
    This will insure that all riders are approved like those that drive
    cars. This licensing will require more state people to control the
    licensing, but the cost will off set this.
    
    Then as the staff grows the license cost will go up.  Then how about
    registration like with a moped!  $25 one time fee.  Then this will
    go to every year.  Yea thats the ticket.
    
    Oh YEA! thats it TICKETS =more money  To save lives and injury the
    next step is to establish a speed limit for bikes!  15mph sounds
    good to me.  Who NEEDS to go faster any way. This is for the good
    of the many.  If you want to race go to a race "track"!
    
    Now that there is a license required we now enter the word LIABILITY.
    Now since the state does not want to have peoples lives trashed
    due to a law suit they will establish the requirement of insurance!
    
    Now we all in Mass. all know what this is!!!
    
    In this safty role the state will require some small amount of safty
    equipment. Brake lights, and head lights, and don't forget brakes
    on both wheels.
    
    Yes now that there are safty requirements we need to have an inspection
    to insure that this equipment is funtional.  A small fee will be
    required to pay for the sticker lets say about $15 per year.
    
    Look at all the benefits. Stolen bikes will be a thing of the past!
    (just like cars in Mass.!!!!!)
    
    Safe drivers
    Cheep ins.
    etc.....
    
    The non bikers are imposing this on *US* they don't give a darn
    because they don't ride.
    
    Government control is gained in small steps.
    
    PLEASE WATCH OUT!
    
    John

    
    	RE:-1  Does that mean everyone will have to go out in buy a
    Cateye so as not to excede the speed limit????
    	Infact where I live, in Ottawa, they have set a speed limit
    of 20km (12 mph) on all bike paths. From what I see on the paths
    people can be just as stupid going slow as they can going fast and
    just about non of them wear protective head gear. 
    	I wear one because it makes sense, for the same reason I wear
    setbelts, It would hurt if I went BOOM!!!!! :-(
    
    				Marc (-:D
    

    For a long time I have resisted getting into this kind of discussion,
    but this is a moment of weakness.  My fundamental issue is freedom
    followed closely by responsibility.  First, people have the right to do
    stupid things and hurt themselves - even get killed.  So I don't
    believe that it is necessary for a governmental agency to make me wear
    seat belts or bike helmets.  The failure to do the safe things hurts me
    and I am old enough to assess the risks.  Furthermore, I believe that
    most people can make these decisions.  There are all kinds of issues
    around getting good information upon which to make a decision, but the
    final decision should be mine.  Freedom is the cornerstone of this
    country.  Part of my issue is the concept that somehow either the
    collective wisdom of the voters, which is then interpreted by the even
    more wise bureaucrat is false.  Mass. residents have to live with a
    government that can't even manage its basics.  This discussion is
    limited to personal actions that hurt that person.  If one damages
    someone else, then things must be set right and the government does
    have an obligation to set some basic rules, like deciding on which side
    of the road we drive on.
    
    The second point is that given that the right to decide is available,
    then along with that is the acceptance of the consequences.  It is my
    responsibility to have insurance, to accept the injuries, and deal with
    the results.  Bikers should not look to lawsuits and other
    institutional remedies for relief from their own stupidity.  If a biker
    does not wear a helmut and has a accident, it is not the governments
    job to fix it, to provide medical care, etc.  The biker should accept
    that.  Hardly a day goes by without a news story of someone who
    misuses something, gets hurt, and then sues the manufacturer and
    everyone possible.  Most people carry insurance because we recognize
    that we make mistakes and can cause fires, injuries, etc.  However, the
    insurance should have limits for doing stupid things like riding a bike
    without a helmut or riding in a car without seatbelts etc.  
    
    Another facet of this issue, is future abuse of taking freedom away. 
    At one time I was given the task as church secretary to write a letter
    to the mayor objecting to an "adult" book store.  Every argument that I
    could think of, could have been equally used against the Bible Store
    around the corner.  A non-believer in Christianity would have found
    every book in that store offensive and a threat to the religious
    upbringing of their children.  If the government passes a law that all
    (name your group, skiers/Arabs/etc.) should war something special for
    (pick a reason, safety, identification,etc), is this OK?  No, if we permit
    our governments to infringe on our choices by regulation, then control 
    is passed from our values to the group/government.  My concern is the rate
    of erosion of our freedoms.  In Mass. religious freedom is under seige.  
    Parental discipline is a legal issue.  Bike helmets can be looked at as an
    issue specific item and argued, but it is also part of a larger trend.  
    Personally, I don't have a lot of answers, just some concerns. 

         I wasn't going to make any more comments, but....:-)


         It seems to me that the arguments for either side of the
         issue don't exactly meet in the middle. This is often the
         case.

         On the side against helmet laws (this is what we are
         talking about here...) we have the arguments about
         restrictions of freedom.

         On the side for helmet laws we have two justifications
         money and safety, which are not mutually exclusive.

         It seems to me that rub lies in the administration and
         regulation of malpratice suits. If it were not possible to
         get windfall profits for lawyers and citizens from these
         lawsuits, the practice would diminish. Lets not forget the
         fact that prime motivation for the law was previously
         stated as being interests of the insurance companies.

         I understand all of the arguments about freedoms. But I
         also know that the basically uninformed public will get
         informed very quickly with the right kind of legislation.
         Yes, you do lose the right to ride with out the helmet. But
         you also save the lives of many. This is not an easy
         choice to make, unless you are an insurance company.

         We are barking up the wrong tree here. The issue is still
         money. If you want to decry to the public about
         restrictions of personal freedoms, then why don't we start
         beating up the real threats to our freedom, and push back
         on lawsuits and insurance lobbies?

         JC

    What I'm worried about is that this will be another
    traffic law that isn't enforced.

    The police never enforce the regulations about headlights
    or about riding on the right side of the road, or to stop
    at red lights.

    If the law isn't enforced, then just as many brain injuries
    will occur.  The elite ranks of the racing and club cyclists
    already wear helmets.  The random "once in a while" cyclist
    won't hear about the law until after an accident.  Then they'll
    be found at fault.

    -Jeff

     I CAN'T beleive this conversation reared its putrid head again...
    
     Please... don't get me started. I said I wouldn't do anymore
     name calling or preaching in a closing remark about 50 notes
    ago in this topic.
    
     P.S. My tongue is a bloody mess right now.... :-)
    
       Chip

IDEA:

	Arrange a law such that if the cyclist is at fault, and is not wearing
a helmet, he or she cannot sue for damages.  This way, you won't cause the
rest of "us" (helmet wearers) to pay for your damages.  I think that would 
be some incentive - as long as the public was informed of the law.

This is how seat belt laws work in some countries.  If you don't wear your
seat belt, you cannot sue for damages.  Needless to say, seat belt compliance
is 95%.  American compliance with seat belt laws rarely hits 50%.

The only problem here is that helmets do not come with the bike, (in the way
that seat belts come standard with cars), so you'd have the snivelers coming
out of closets saying that "some people cannot afford helmets, so you're 
descriminating against them."   Ever ask a skier if he/she cannot afford
ski brakes or retention straps?


There is no easy answer, but I hate to see more "you must do this" laws 
designed to make senators feel good, penalize the basically innocent citizen,
and not do much else.



Steve

    re [.-1] I KNOW that there's more to helmets than meets the eye, but I
    bet that, even so, those plain foam one can't cost more than a dollar
    or two each to produce.  I don't think raising the price of a new bike,
    even a low-end kiddie bike, would be seriously impacted by requiring
    that a minimal helmet be sold with al new bikes.  

    
    Is anyone familiar with the OGK (Osaka Grip Mfg. Company)
    micro-shell helmet (model name is FORZA, a nice Japanese name :-))?
    
    They've had ads in Bicycling, etc., and last night I rode with 
    someone who had just bought one ($41 retail).  It was super light,
    of course. (I tried it on.)  Didn't seem to have much ventilation,
    but sometimes vent-size doesn't correlate with cooling.
    
    Best of all, this model had a kind of eggshell-crack finish on
    the top, which probably wouldn't show dirt!  :-)
    
    -john

    
    Last Monday, October 8th...
    
    A quiet, traffic-free neighborhood, brilliant sun, clear skies,
    smooth asphalt... 5:25pm, cruising along at 15mph ... suddenly 
    I am on my side on the pavement, looking at my feet which have
    snapped out of the pedals, and thinking about getting up in a
    few seconds when I feel better.
    
    I don't remember whether I blacked out when I hit, or why I
    crashed.  Latest theories point to CAT (Clear Air Turbulence),
    or maybe something spooked the bike - you know those Italian
    racing frames are so skittish - could have been a copperhead
    or an armadillo - from the impact-points (four), it looked like
    the bike just ran away with me.
    
    The impact points were (1) left shoe, (2) left elbow, (3) coccix,
    and (4) left side of cranium,... or would have been, but...
    my helmet took the blow!  (I only noticed this later by feeling
    the scratch-marks engraved in the polycarbonate, although the
    headache should have told me something.)
    
    This is the first time I've actually used the helmet as intended
    (even though it was obviously a stupid crash), and the result is
    I blithely rode the remaining 20 miles of the after-work loop, and
    only later came under the observation of a medical personnel, who
    observed me for a while, and then pronounced my condition neither
    weirder than usual, nor an actual improvement over my normal state. :-)
    
    Even with this minor crash, the helmet averted a skull-fracture,
    I believe, and possibly a real concussion.
    
    -john

    re: .1, .115:  Are you still a software consultant?
    
    #-)
    
    ed

    
    My capabilities as a software consultant seem not to have been
    adversely affected by the crash, and may in fact have been enhanced! :-)
    
    -john

    And if you're promoted in the next years or so we may infer the
    cause...

    Re:  .28
    
    What does "roll-off" mean?  
    
    This past weekend I bought an Avenir hardshell helmet for $40, which
    seemed pretty reasonable.  Since I sold my sailboard a few months ago,
    I decided I wanted to get into biking, but wouldn't do so until I
    bought a helmet.  Now I read that Consumer Reports gave my helmet
    a thumbs down!
    
    Should I be thinking about exchanging it for another model?  The 
    price was right for my budget and it fits well ....
    
    Thanks,
    Bibi

 >>   Now I read that Consumer Reports gave my helmet
 >>   a thumbs down!
    

Don't worry about CR testing Helmets.  The helmet will have a sticker inside
stating it was already approved by ANSI.(American National Standards Institute)


CR has no idea how to test helmets, so they'll come up with the stupidest
tests. 

Tom

	I read the CR report and based my helmet purchase on it (Bell Quest).
	Their complaint with the Avenir was that the straps couldn't be
	adjusted to prevent the helmet from sliding back on your head, thereby 
	exposing your forehead.  Sure, the shell passed the ANSI and Snell 
	tests (I think), but if it can slide to the back of your head, what 
	good is it?

	Sue

>	I read the CR report and based my helmet purchase on it (Bell Quest).
>	Their complaint with the Avenir was that the straps couldn't be
>	adjusted to prevent the helmet from sliding back on your head, thereby 

Shows the importance of actually trying helmets on for fit and 
stay-put-ness.... My experience with most Bell products is that they fit 
me about as well as a cantaloupe fits a carbeurator. If a hat fits you & 
stays on properly & passes the ANSI/Snell stuff, it oughta be fine.

                 ken-whos-Giro-fits-fine-thanks

I will agree with Ken. All helmets fit differently so try them on. 
If you want to find out why people will spend near $100 for a helmet, try on a 
Giro. I don't know why other helmets don't fit as well as the Giro, but it fits
so much better than any other helmet I've tried on.

Tom

Yeah, you'd definitely want to try before you buy.  The Bell fit me fine.  Does 
that mean my head's shaped like a cantaloupe or like a carbeurator? %^)

     Tom is right... Giro is the best helmet I've ever worn... They're
    pricey, but they're good... I guess it's a "expense over the thing
    being protected" equation... :-)
    
    
       Chip

    
    Another vote for trying the helmet on (...and test-riding with it!).
    (Test-ride so you can tell if the wind blows the helmet back.)
    
    I'd never heard the term "roll-off" for that phenomenon, but it is
    true - I borrowed a friend's soft-shell (Giro, I think) for one ride,
    and it had severe roll-off on my head - but then, I didn't spend a
    lot of time adjusting the straps.  Shapes of heads differ.
    
    My new helmet (the Time Equipe) has a slight (correctible?) tendency
    to roll back at certain speeds and head-orientations, but it is so
    cool (ventilated), light, and comfortable, I'm willing to take the
    extra measures to fix the roll-off problem.  (Doesn't include Velcro
    skull implants.)
    
    BTW, it also has helpful neon-orange arrows at the back pointing
    at people whom I've just passed... at least, I think that's what
    the arrows are for. :-)
    
    -john
    

Based on my experience, I think that most helmets (in the right 
size) will fit comfortably once you are used to it.

However, this does require the right size pads and careful
adjustment of the straps.  Strap adjustment, so that the helmet is
level and your ears are placed between the straps, can be both tedius
and frustrating. 

Kind of like truing your first wheel.  Requires patience.

	~Mike

>    BTW, it also has helpful neon-orange arrows at the back pointing
>    at people whom I've just passed... at least, I think that's what
>    the arrows are for. :-)
    
    No that's the air flow direction.  Just in case the air gets confussed
    and tries to rush in from the back.
    
    TIME is one of your RAAM sponsors aren't they?  Have you learned to
    like their shoes and pedals yet?

    
    TIME would probably have sponsored shoes & pedals as well as the
    helmet, but I went the more conservative route - namely, I have
    been using shoes that fit my foot beautifully (not a foregone
    conclusion with shoes), and since they're not TIME shoes (they
    are Diadora), I would have had to get adaptors to use TIME pedals,
    which sounded non-optimal.
    
    (But, having said that, I think the TIME shoes & pedals would
    have worked out ok, given time.)
    
    Current set-up: 2 pair Diadora Synergy (grey) shoes, ARC cleats,
    Shimano pedals (one pair is Dura-Ace, one is Ultegra, and my friend
    Pat's pair, for back up, is SC-105).  If I can get the Carbon-Kevlar
    Diadoras in a size & last that fit, I will add those, since they
    are very light (and, yes, stylish).
    
    PS on style-points: at mile 95 in Sunday's double century, the
    velcro strap's plastic retaining ring broke on the left Synergy.
    That's high tech for you.  Can't just whip out a spare shoe-string.
    But... I had the next best thing: electrical tape.  Talk about stylish!
    The black swath against grey definitely lent panache.  :-)
    
    -john