Conference noted::bicycle

    	Being the impatient cuss that I am (God forgive me), I'm
    	gonna respond to my own note.
    
    	My main concern here is what should I be looking for (and
    	expecting) when I go look for a bike. Most of my concern
    	is based on my size. I've had more than a couple people
    	tell me that I'm too big and too heavy to ride a decent
    	sport/touring bike. I'd really like to hear the comments
    	of some of you experts (even though Reg denies he's an
    	expert.
    
    	Paul Randazzo said I would have no trouble riding a
    	decent bike with 700C tires.
    
    	Scott

    as Budweiser is to American beers.

    Hundreds of thousands of Dutch people ride them.  It is 
    common in Holland (a country full of big people) to see men 
    of your size and weight riding bikes everywhere, so I'd imagine 
    that Batavus has been catering to people with your needs for
    years.  Since they use the same frame tubing and construction
    techniques as other European makers, there's no "magic" 
    involved -- it's just that a large size Batavus frame will 
    probably be easier to find, and cheaper as a result.
    
    I've ridden a Batavus around the block a few times: it 
    cornered competently, but it seemed to flex a bit in the
    bottom bracket.  It had road angles (about 73/73) that made
    it comfortable and stable - good, if that's what you want. 
    It was machine made, with utilitarian lugs and a less-than-flashy 
    finish, which makes sense - you get what you pay for.  The
    materials and components looked good.
    
    I believe that price and fit are the main reasons you might
    consider this bike.  You should probably look around a little
    bit first, though.  Batavus seems to have their priorities 
    right in this price range, but, as I said, there's nothing
    magic about them.  Sometimes you can find great odd-size frames 
    for low bucks at shops that are tired of staring at them on
    their walls. This might be your best bargin.
    
    MATT

    
    	And did Paul R tell you if he thought I liked the Batavus that
    I test rode ?  ask him sometime.   Seriously, I went up there with a
    fellow expatriate (sp ?) Englishman when he was looking last year. He
    (Brian) asked my opinion (he had just fallen in love with the colour),
    so I said, "dunno" as I started tucking my socks into my pants, "lets
    have a spin".  Paul claims I was doing sit up no hands track stands,
    riding backwards, doing bunny hops sideways up onto the sidewalk and
    generally having a good time.  I don't remember doing all that, but it
    *WAS* nice.  I think what they have done is to put a very nice bike
    together that has ~30 year old club racing geometry (whatever that
    was).  This is tough, but I'll admit its a close call to compare it to
    my VITUS frame, in fact I prefer the geomtry, if you're not riding
    tight crits who needs tight twitchy steering ?.  Well, I'm not
    complaining about the VITUS.  If I could get the Batavus in aluminium
    or with track ends I'd find a way to afford it.
    
    	Not much help I know, but I'd say,
    
    

    
        	" I'll *NEVER* speak to you if you do ! "

    
    
    
    
    	Reg
    

Haven't seen the Batavi (pl. for Batavus) lately, but seemed to be 
pretty good formerly, as previous replies indicate. The most important 
thing should be to get strong components on whatever bike you get, and
learn to ride without abusing the poor little bike. I would rate pedals
and cranks as the most likely points of failure - a good crank with a
one-piece forged "spider" is essential. Make sure pedals are good, too.
Alloy rims and handlebars are "stronger" than steel because they give
slightly and bounce back for more, whereas steel just bends...
As for riding abuse - learn to pedal smoothly, if you start and stop 
frequently with a "clunk" when you pedal, you can quickly rip the bottom 
bracket right out of a bike, no matter how good the components, etc.

                                         G'luck,
                                         ken

    	re .3	Ah, I forgot to menton (.4 reminded me) that Brian's
    Batavus has all Campy components, not top of the line, but still
    better than a lot of the noo fangled foo foo clickety click ratchety
    shiftie stuff.  Reynolds 531 too, but clinchie tyres, well if it was
    *PERFECT* I'd have to get one.

    	Reg
    
    	(And if Paul R wants to sell you one that is a size smaller
    than most other shops recommend you should probably get the smaller
    size)
    

    	RE: 172.5
    
    	Reg,
    
    	He did do some measuring, and I did think that the size
    	seemed smaller than what I currently had.
    
    	You have any idea why he is recommending a slightly smaller
    	frame?
    
    	Scott

    
    Because you're currently riding a frame too large. Seriously.
    
    Paul knows what he's doing. Trust him. Most less concious shops
    almost always sell the average consumer a frame that's too large
    because they think it's "what the customer wants". The common
    perception most bicycle buyers have is, "get the largest frame that
    fits", which might have to do with how they bought cycles as children,
    always getting the biggest size so you can "grow into it". This
    is wrong. Frame size is determined from your body construction,
    intended use, and last your preference.
    
    CdH
    
    
    Re: 

    
    Re: alloy bars
    
    They might start out stronger than steel, but they don't last very
    long. Constant pulling up on the bars from sprinting work-hardens
    the alloy at the junction of the reinforcing sleeve. First they
    start creaking and eventually break. I go through a set a year (Cinelli
    Model 65).
    
    CdH
    

    re  I don't remember, but CdH said it.	Yup, I've seen lotsa
    guys spread out on 25 inch frames, then they get off and are shorter
    than me.  I sometimes ask what their frame size is, they boast how
    *LARGE* it is, I say "hmmm, what's your pants inseam ?", the usual
    reply is 34 or less.  Well, you can't insult a guy's choice once
    he's got it so I avoid the fight with, " Yeah, but I have shorter
    arms than you, so I probably wouldn't fit it ".

    re alloy bars.	I have broken them on (trials) motorcycles,
    funniest thing you can imagine to see someone else do it, unfunny
    when it happens to self though.  
    
    	Reg
    
    

    - Paul is a pretty good guy.  I would put some faith in his
    recommendations. 
    
    - Another point about buying a Batavus.  It's important to develop
    a cool, tough attitude if you get one.  Everyone I know who has
    that bike has that aura.
    
    Chuck
    

    	Chuck,
    
    	Cool and tough, huh? Well, that's very interesting. Now, if
    	I buy a Batavus, and someone defines "cool and tough" for me,
    	I'll know how I should act. 8-) 8-)
    
    	Scott

    
    My friend Betsy's sister, Martha, bought a Batavus from Paul. Cool
     and tough ?  Hmmmm.  More so than average, but you'd have to ask
     our moderater for more info.  - Chris

         
    Before I get Batavi (plural) owners mad at me, I should state the
    origin of my "cool and tough" remark.
    
    I was at a race once (Pawtucket) and had a pair of wheels in the
    pit for my teammates.  I was sitting in the sun peacefully watching
    the race, when a member of the Batavus team pulled into the pit
    with a broken wheel.  He ran over to my wheels and started to put
    them on his bike. 
    
    I saw this happening (with much surprise) and ran across the road
    into the pit area.  I said, "those are for my team".  He kept putting
    them on his bike.  I said, "you can only take your own wheels out
    of the pit (or your team's wheels)".  He said "F*** YOU".  I said,
    "you know the rule, you can't use those".  He said "F*** OFF"
    
    Paul Randazzo was the official there, and he came over and told
    the guy to stop.  The Batavus ride said several more bad words,
    then rode off (without my wheels). 
    
    After the race, he saw me and pointed me out to his teammates (all
    much bigger than me).  "That's the guy", he said.  I said. "come
    one, you know the rules".  He said "F*** YOU".
    
    
    So this is why I made the comment about "cool and tough".
    
    Chuck

    "Cool" and "tough"?  Sounds more like hot (under the collar) 
    and soft (in the skull).

    MATT