Conference terri::cars_uk

    Road tax is around �135 for 12 months, if I remember rightly. It
    changes so much I can't remember, but it's a lot...
    
    Fully comp for 30 year old on what? It depends on the car, though
    unless you're driving some daft vehicle like a Porsche or Renault 5
    Turbo or Cosworth then you shouldn't have any problems (cue massive
    flames from Porsche/Renault/Cossie owners ;-) )
    
    Umm. Cavalier boring-basic I imagine is somewhere around �11,000 though
    don't hold me to that, it's a complete guess.
    
    Regards,
    
    	Dan

    
    �135 - I used to think it was a lot, too, but ask the Germans what  
    they pay!
    
    I'm 32 and was paying �450 for insurance on a Rover 220 GSi (Sort of 
    Escort/Golf sized 2 litre GTi - so a fair bit dearer than a bod standard 
    1.6), but you'll need evidence of a good insurance history to avoid
    being treated as a raw beginner and it's only the NCBs which keep
    British car insurance affordable (I think the Gross price for my 
    insurance was around �1000!).
    
    I'm not sure of the price of Cavaliers, but 9-11,000 is probably not
    far off for base models (which will probably include electric front 
    windows, air bags, electric mirrors, sunroof and central locking - 
    so maybe not as 'base' as you are used to - I don't know where you
    are) depending on engine size.
    
    Mark

    	The insurance cost will vary quite a bit depending on such factors
    as the area you'll be living, whether the car'll be garaged when not
    in use and the levels of compulsory & voluntary excess on the premium.

    Thanks for the info so far.  I wonder if they'll accept insurance
    history from another country?
    
    It looks as though insurance is about the same as here (America) but
    the price of cars is lot higher in GB!  I have a Mercury, which is an
    upmarket Ford, 4-door saloon, with electric windows, automatic 
    transmission, automatic seat belts, air conditioning, etc. cost me 
    around 7,000 pounds.
    
    I have to find something the first week I arrive which I why I'm trying
    to get as much information as possible ahead of time.
    
    Thanks again
    Sandy 

    Not many private buyers buy new in the UK. The majority of new cars
    are bought as company cars. It's usually a better deal to buy a fairly
    low mileage one or two year old car instead. 
    
    The price of cars new is about 60-100% higher in the UK than in the US
    for comparable models. The cost of car loans (APR) is also higher.
    
    If you are interested in buying a car new, take a look at one of the
    companies advertising in the Manchester Guardian Weekly. Some offer
    returning expats up to 30% off list price for cars (I got price lists
    for VWs and Peugeots, but ended up buying secondhand). 
    
    John

    Insurance is a difficult one. I pay �242 per annum for fully
    comphrensive cover on a 1986 1.4 litre Peugeot 205 GT, but if I was 
    starting out afresh, I would have to pay closer �700 pa.
    
    And you don't have to pick the insurance cmpany that is based closest
    to where you live, I am insured with General Accident who are based in
    Perth, Scotland, whereas I live on the south coast of England.
    
    (Incidentally, a lot of peopl think General Accident are expensive in
    comparison to other companies; my experience, though is that when
    things go wrong, you get your money's worth.)
    
    You can finance the purchase of your car through a bank or building
    society (or even Marks & Spencers), but a relatively new idea to
    Britain is the Personal Purchase Scheme. Basically this operates like a
    private lease on a vehicle; you usually have to pay a deposit which can
    work out as much as 20%-30% of the purchase price; then you finance the
    depreciation on the car over a fixed period of time and fixed mileage
    that the car will cover during that time.
    
    At the end of the fixed period you can then either take the car back to
    the dealer and walk away (with nothing more to pay); buy the vehicle
    out right by paying the dealer the purchase price of the car at the end
    of the PCP period; sell the car privately (hopefully at a profit) and
    pay teh dealer whatever outstanding payment you owe; retunr the car and
    take out a new PCP on a new car.
    
    These PCP's have their advantages and disadvantages like everything
    else... They're no good if you plan long term ownership of the same
    vehicle for example; quite a good idea though if you fancy a new car
    every couple of years.
    
    PCP's can also allow access to cars that might otherwise be out of
    reach... Eg. a Mercedes C180 Classic for Mondeo (Contour where you are)
    money, �199 x 24 months; Range Rover Vogue Tdi for �224 x 24 months;
    Peugeot operate a cheme called Gold Passport PCP, which includes 2
    years warranty, servicing and insurance all in the monthly payment
    (which depends on the Peugeot you pick).
    
    (Incidentally, I will admit to being biased towards Peugeots; the one
    thing a 205 (and probably the 106/306/405/605) will not do, is wipe the
    smile of your face before, during and after you drive it.)
    
    Good luck... and welcome back to Blighty...
    
    Stephen
    
    
    Ps: And don't worry, we get NYPD Blue, Frasier, Ellen, and all the rest
    (just about).... Heck, we've even got our own version of Gladiators !

	My wife's 2CV renewal today is �103.00 Full Comp, max No Claims Bonus
(NCB), only her driving, �50.00 excess in Royal Berkshire.

	My Xantia VSX Turbo Diesel renewal earlier this month was �386.00 Full
Comp, one year NCB, only me driving, �100.00 excess also in Royal Berkshire. 
The range of premiums I was quoted for this one car was from �870.00 down to the
one I took as above.

	For full details of Insurance companies, their 'phone numbers and the
quoted premiums for my Citro�n Xantia, see Topic 2027.24 in this conference. 
There are quite a lot of companies in the car insurance market and you need to
ring around for many quotes - some will not insure "novices," ie. those with no
insurance record in this country.

	Also, all cars (well, all road vehicles, I suppose) have an insurance
group rating, so it would be as well for you to find out what group your desired
car is in, before buying it, bearing in mind that there is a difference even
between variants of the same car.  Fr'instance, the Xantia VSX Turbo Diesel is
group 12, whilst the Xantia SX Turbo Diesel is group 11 if I remember correctly.
 Don't try to understand how they come to put a given model in any category, the
VSX Xantia has better (safer?) suspension than the SX yet it is in a higher
group!

				Malcolm.

     
 Re ......................... Range Rover Vogue Tdi for �224 x 24 months;
 
   Could you be a bit more precise about this, as I wouldn't mind a R R
   especially if its for 225 a month.
    

    The details of how a PCP works are in my earlier note.
    
    The �224 x 24 is factually correct; the depreciation is calculated at
    30% over that period (�7668). The point of reference that I have is
    Carweek magazine. Note however the amount of deposit you have to pay
    and the mileage you are restricted to will be the main reasons for the
    relatively low monthly payments.
    
    Further details from your nearest Land Rover dealer.
    
    Reargards,
    
    Stephen

    It looks as if I'll be getting a second-hand car.  I appreciate your
    help, I feel as if I'll have to buy one the first weekend because I'll
    be hiring a car when I get off the plane and that is a bit expensive to
    do for too long.  So my research time will be fairly short.
    
    I'll take a look at the insurance note and browse through the rest of
    the file to see if I can find a few models that I might like to look
    at.   At least that will give me a starting point!
    
    It's a bit nerve-wracking to be returning home after all this time. 
    When you have trouble counting the money but you have a British
    accent the shop assistants look at you in a very strange way!!
    
    Sandy

If buying from a garage/dealer 

1.	Dont let on that you need the car urgently.
2.	You dont have a car to trade in therefore expect a discount on a new or
	secondhand car .
3.	Be prepared to walk away out of the showroom.
4.      Dont settle for their first offer ask for more or extras such as Road
	Tax , free servicing for x miles , warranty or extended warranty.

5.      They are desperate to sell second hand cars .

6. 	It maybe a good idea to have an independent survey carried out on the 
	car by say the RAC or some similar body.

7.      Have a long test drive in the car .

8.      Check over car thouroughly for dents, scratches, rust, upholstery
	operation of all accesories radio , cassette CD or whatever
	check for water leeks etc these are hard to repair . 
      
9.	WATCH OUT THERE ARE A LOT OF SHARKS ABOUT


		Good Luck

		Stuart

    Thanks again.   I'll be looking somewhere between Oxford and Bracknell,
    any suggestions for decent dealers?  I should probably check to see if
    there's a note for that!   Do dealerships open on Sundays?
    
    Sandy

Sandy ,

	Yes , Sunday afternoons 12:00-16:00 at least in around Edinburgh
	sorry I cant help with around that area . But did you know that if
	you do go for a new Vauxhall then there is a voucher obtainable from
	car fleet for DIGITAL personal only that covers the on the road costs
	free valued at around �400 which is Raoad Tax . Delivery and Number 
	plates this should only be produced after you have reached a deal
	with your Vauxhall dealer . They are then refunded this ammount by
	Vauxhall.

	It maybe that taking this into account along with no car to trade in 
	you might be better off with a new car.


	P.S. 

	I have an up to date Vauxhall price list in front of me if you want
	I could send it to you .


				Stuart

 Sandy,

       Citroen in the U.K. have quite a good deal for the next couple
 of months on their ZX range of cars .

       The ZX is about the size/shape of a VW Golf/Rabbit and is
 well rated by motoring press for good mix of safety , comfort
 driving enjoyment etc .,

       The deal from memory is an on the road price of about 10,000
 pounds including 6 months road tax , insurance for one year is
 provided free of charge to any driver age 21-70 , the manufacturer
 pays 500 pounds cash back to the purchaser and there is 0% interest
 repayment scheme to purchase the car .

       Exact details will vary according to the model and the engine
 size etc., 

       I will try and find the original advertisment and post it next
 week.

        Paul

    
    If your are going to hire a car when you get to the airport then use
    use Digitals Discount with AVIS (unless you can find cheaper), car hire
    prices at the airport are way above the towns. (Procedure is on UK VTX
    as option 2 carfleet.)
    
    At �30/day, I'd hang on to the rental car for a week becuase you could
    easly save yourself �200 worth of 2nd car/hassle by taking your time and
    finding a good/better deal.
    
    :J

    Thanks for the info on Citroen, if you can find more details I'd
    appreciate it.  
    
    Do banks etc. finance second hand cars as well as new?  What is the
    average interest rate for a loan?
    
    Also, can you pay insurance monthly?
    
    I am not looking forward to putting a lot of my money into car hire,
    I'm afraid that by the time I've found a car to buy I'll have spent
    more than the deposit in hire!    I have someone who works in a garage
    looking out for a car for me, but it's difficult as I really have no
    idea what I want.

    
    If you look around you can find place that rent middle aged cars for 
    very cheap prices. We rented my wife a car for a week or two a couple
    of years ago for about �7.50 a day. The cars varied, but she had an 
    Escort and a Granada for that price, both about 5 years old, but quite
    servicable.
    
    Mark

    re .16  �it's difficult as I really have no idea what I want.
    
    Sandy, this is something you should really think about right now.
    You should at least decide on the type of car you want (ie sports/large
    or small saloon/hatchback/estate). Let us know what sort of car and age
    of car you will be after and we can give you a list of models to 
    check out and to a degree give you an idea of prices. 
    
    Royston
    

    Yes banks do finance used vehicles (within reason of course). And yes,
    most insurance companies allow you to pay your car insurance on a
    monthly basis, or at the very worst allow you to pay by credit card.
    
    Reargards,
    
    Stephen

    Okay, here's what I'm looking for.  A four-door, not a hatch back. 
    Something not too small, I hired an Orion once and that seemed to be a
    good size for me, it's the only make I can remember.  Last year I hired
    a Rover which was also a good size and nice to drive, but I expect it
    would be out of my price range.  Does that help you give me some ideas?  
    
    As for price range, unfortunately I don't really have a good idea, I've
    been a way too long.
    
    Any phone numbers for where you hired those cars for 7.50 a day??
    
    This is really helping me a lot.  Thanks
    
    Sandy 

    
    Could someone offer some advice as to the tax implications of the
    current 'free' phone offer that Vauxhall are running please?
    
    The deal is, I'm told, a phone with each car, with airtime provided by
    Martin Dawes Telecoms - 25, 20 and 15 quid per month dependant upon
    which tariff you want.
    
    The question is - How is this phone offer taxed?  Is it a benefit in
    kind; is it an extra cost which can be calculated and added to the
    taxable amount of the car; or are there other taxes involved even if
    it's only for personal (non-business) use?
    
    Thanks in advance for any ideas...
    Chris.

    Do they give them to fleet purchases, or private sale only?
    
    Clive

    
    Both.  But 'cos Digital apparently has special airtime rates arranged
    with another airtime/service provide they have to be for personal use
    only.
    
    C.

    If it is not used for business then I would expect no tax effect. 
    
    Ask Vauxhall?
    
    Does this mean that many of us will be driving round with two phones?
    One for Digital and one from Vauxhall?
    
    Andrew

�    If it is not used for business then I would expect no tax effect. 
        
        I'd agree with that at this moment.  Whether it'll be the same
        in 4 hours time though...
        
        Ian.

    How do you work out the new tax amounts for company cars, is there a
    magic formula somewhere?
    
    cheers,
    
    Greg

35% of list price
	2/3 of this cost if you do 2500 - 18000 miles
	1/3 of this cost if you do 18000 + miles

This gives the tax liability. You then pay tax at 20% or 25% or 40% on this 
cost.

Cheers, Chris

P.S. The list price is typically what you pay for the car + 25%   :-)

    <<< Note 2345.26 by BAHTAT::HILTON "Beer...now there's a temporary
    solution" >>>
                               -< How too work out tax? >-
    
      How do you work out the new tax amounts for company cars, is there a
      magic formula somewhere?
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
      
    
    
    	I think that the magic formula is to come out of the Cocar scheme
    
    				;^)
    
    				Malcolm.