Conference terri::cars_uk

    Well said. I find that account of things totally bizarre! I have dealt
    with Clarion products before, and always found them good value for
    money, etc.... but to hear this from their service when
    they are clearly 'at error' (or however you wish to express no record
    of a serial number!) is dissappointing.
    
    I'll remember to take the serial numbers down if I deal with any of
    their stuff again.... not that it will be of much use ;-)
    
    Dan

    	It seems to me that you have tried to do the 
    	right thing with Clarion.  Especially by pointing 
    	out to the MD that some staff have a slightly 
    	unusual method of dealing with their customers'
    	customers.
    
    	However you shouldn't expect an instant response
    	from the MD.  I waited 8 weeks to get just an 
    	acknowledgement from British Airways when I had
    	cause to complain -- the proper reply process 
    	dragged on for 3 more months.  And I waited 
    	about 10 weeks before I got a reply when I 
    	mailed Bob Palmer. 
    
    	So what to do?
    
    1	Give Clarion's management 12 weeks then vow 
    	never to get another one of their products.  
    	Don't bother advising them of this unless 
    	you want to use another postage stamp.
    
    2	Buy the new part at the inflated price and
    	vow never to buy another one of their 
    	products.
    
    3	Write the whole episode of to experience, and
    	remeber that "in this world they're all strange 
    	except you and me, and I've got me doubts 
    	about you".

    Dont some of the car mags take up cases for their readers, they might
    be interested in this one, and get it sorted out for you.
    
    Martyn.

Isn't the problem the dealer not having records?
And then offering to fix the problem by charging you extra?

Clarion, from the serial number, claim to be able to trace it to a dealer.
The dealer doesn't keep serial numbers, and there the trail will end.
Maybe Clarion would slap the wrists of the dealer?

I do not condone putting the phone down, though I know how it can feel!
Nor do I condone not answering letters in a reasonable time.

On the other hand I cannot see why a request for a serial number should not
be met to replace the front panel. There clearly is a "black" market for
these as radios with removable panels still get stolen.

Just putting the other side...

Andrew

    Even though the dealer doesn't link the serial No. to the customer, the
    fact that Clarion link the serial No. to the dealer _is_ a major
    security feature.
    
    If no notice was taken of there numbers, you could buy one radio and
    nick a dozen other examples of the same type over a year or so. Then
    you, or a mate, wander back to the dealer and say that you bought an
    XYZ32 last year and have lost the panel. Here is the receipt can I have
    another panel please?
    
    The check on serial numbers means that you must either only nick radios
    supplied by the same dealer (hard to do) or always quote the same
    serial number which should arouse suspicion. The system works even if
    the dealer fails to link customers to serial numbers.
    
    On the subject of the higher price without the serial number, this also
    sounds fair. Sell the panel for the cost of doing so (plus profit) if
    all is transparently OK. If it looks dodgy, load the price so that the
    cost of the panel becomes a significant part of the used value of a
    stolen radio. This will also deter theft.
    
    I think that the above can explain Clarion's policy but certainly it
    doesn't excuse their incivility to a customer.
    
    	John O'Connor

    
    Thanks for the reply's, I'll try and answer your points.
    
    <Give there MD time to respond, 8 weeks to get a reply from British
    Airways>
    
    Clarion have so far had 12 Weeks to reply to my first letter (I did
    not post this Note untill I had given them every chance to be
    reasonable.   I have already vowed never to deal with them again (not
    if they were the last radio manufacture in the known universe !! :-) ).
    
    
    <There clearly is a "black" market for these as radios with removable
    panels still get stolen.>
    
    You may be right, although the people who steal Car radios are not
    normally too bright, or even literate, maybe they can't read the
    security stickers in the windows :-)    A couple of years ago there was
    a spate if thefts from cars in the road where I live, one of my
    neighbours had his car attacked 3 times (they never managed to get into
    it but he found that the lock barrel had been prised out of the door
    doing considerable damage).    The Police worked out that our road was
    always "done" on Wednesday nights.  Talk about truth being stranger
    than fiction :-   Plod camps out one Wednesday night in an unmarked car
    on my neighbours drive, they did not even have to stay up late the
    culprits turned up before 23:00 (obviously thinking that just because
    your a criminal, it doesn't mean you have to work nights !!).   So the
    police carted these two chaps off, and touch wood we have had no
    repeats since. The Police said that most stolen Car radios are shipped
    out of the country these days, by the container load.   The twats who
    do the stealing (taking all the risks) are paid about one pound per
    unit !!   I guess you will not get anyone to do this for you who has
    not got a decimal point in front of there IQ  :-)  I really do suspect
    that most of the radios that are stolen, without there panels or ones
    that need a code entered into them if the poweris taken off, just wind
    up getting junked.
    That's not to say that there shouldn't be stringent checks before these
    replacement panels are sold :-replacement panels are sold :-
    
    
    <Even though the dealer doesn't link the serial No. to the customer,
    the fact that Clarion link the serial No. to the dealer _is_ a major
    security feature>
    
    I think this is a very good point, so good in fact, if it is correct I
    cannot understand why Clarion did not just explain it to me, thus
    getting rid of me on good terms, rather than royally pissing me off ?
    
    
    <On the subject of the higher price without the serial number, this
    also sounds fair. Sell the panel for the cost of doing so (plus profit)
    if all is transparently OK. If it looks dodgy, load the price so that
    the cost of the panel becomes a significant part of the used value of a
    stolen radio. This will also deter theft.>
     
    I do not know how much "hot" radios go for, but if there stolen for a
    pound  it can't be that much ?  By "that much" I mean (and perhaps I
    should have  specified this originally) Clarions price of Fifty Five
    Pounds !!!!!!    The "loaded price" from the dealer was Seventy five
    Pounds.    I do not believe  that this has anything to do with
    security, just old fashioned profiteering.  If someone has a four
    hundred pound radio that is useless without a panel we  can stick him
    for what we like (within reason).  I don't have too much of  an issue
    with that attitude, I do not condone it but at the same time I realise
    "its only business".  Teach me not to be so careless as to have lost it
    in the first place.
    This makes Clarion's attitude even more surprising, I'm prepared to pay
    them a vastly inflated price, and they can't even be bothered to be
    polite enough to collect it !!! 

�   The Police said that most stolen Car radios are shipped
�   out of the country these days, by the container load.   The twats who
�   do the stealing (taking all the risks) are paid about one pound per
�   unit !!
       
<other material deleted>
    
�   I do not know how much "hot" radios go for, but if there stolen for a
�   pound  it can't be that much?
    
    Sounds like the normal technique of telling the citizen anything you
    like as long as it makes him stop pestering you to find his property.
    (Before you tell me that this never happens, I have worked for the
    Police in the UK.)
    
    Personally, I think that most stolen radios are sold in certain small
    ad mags (though surely not in any that sound like old stringed
    instruments) or through car boot sales. Chief Constables are asking the
    home office to ban or strictly control the latter because, in their own
    words, they have become the most important channel for selling stolen
    goods in the UK.
    
    Judging by the prices, a decent piece of ICE will fetch 50% of its
    typical retail price if sold in Loot or @boot. Really desirable kit can
    fetch 75%. I would guess that the actual thief is likely to get half
    that if he sells it through a 3rd party.
    
    At least one Berkshire teenager was able to justify several hundred
    pounds for a scanner to aid in the theft of ICE from car parks.
    
�   I really do suspect
�   that most of the radios that are stolen, without there panels or ones
�   that need a code entered into them if the poweris taken off, just wind
�   up getting junked.
    
    I don't know about the panels or cards but any security code protected
    radio can be reprogrammed for ten pounds (to the trade) plus profit
    margin. For �250 you can buy a PC card and software that will do all
    the security coded radios that you are likely to find.
    
    This trade is legit and the vast majority of business comes from
    garages that disconnected a battery while doing repair work.
    
    John O'Connor
    

    
    Hopefully side stepping this Rathole :-)
    
    Well two conflicting accounts of how much dosh there is to be made from
    stealing from cars, unless anyone out there is actively involved in
    this "industry" we are all going on hearsay.  Maybe both accounts are
    correct, certainly people involved with computers earn widely different
    amounts ( I know Bob Palmer earns a widely different amount from me :-)
    ).
    
    Within the bounds of this note, I do not much care.   Maybe Clarion
    really do have a good and valid reason for their policy, but if so
    then they had only to explain it to me.  It was when I asked for such
    an explanation that they so abruptly decided to terminate the telephone
    conversation.   It is only the "hanging up" that has really annoyed me,
    such a total lack of basic courtesy that I would expect to be shown to
    any human being, never mind a Customer.
    
    
    
                                   Update
                                  --------
    Yesterday, my wife received a telephone call at home from Clarions
    Service Manager, he has been passed my second letter from his MD.  He
    said they cannot find any trace of my first letter, could we send them
    a copy ?...... Well this looks promising !    I ran off copy of the PC
    last night, and it went in the post this morning.    I will post the
    outcome of this here in due course.
    
    ***** CAN CLARION REDEEM THEMSELVES AT THE ELEVENTH HOUR ????  ******
    ***** STAY TUNED FOR THE NEXT EXCITING EPISODE.                ******
    
    Maybe I could turn this into a TV Soap  :-) :-) 
                                                    

    
>>    ***** STAY TUNED FOR THE NEXT EXCITING EPISODE.                ******
    
    .....I'm going to miss the next episode......I've lost the front panel
    on my radio! 8-)
    
    JBG

    Maybe it will be serialized on the radio - we'll tell you what happens
    in the last episode - that's if you haven't received the front panel by
    then!

    
     sounds like a complimentary radio/casette will be on it's way to you
     shortly....  

    
    I have now received a letter from Clarion's Service Manager, here it is
    :-
    
    
    
    
    Dear Mr Muir
    
    Thankyou for the copy of your letter dated 28 May which was addressed
    to our Managing Director, Mr Wada.   As expressed to your wife last
    week, I did not receive your original letter.
    
    Firstly, I must apologise for the manner in which you were treated -
    I have to say that this is not our normal customer relations and I
    have to agree that you received a most unorthodox approach.  I have
    taken the matter up with all my staff and, as one would expect, no-
    one admits liability.   I have left them in no misapprehension of
    my feelings in this matter and should I ever come across this
    problem again, they will seek more suitable employment.
                                  
    Just to put the record straight for your understanding, for all
    DCP requests we require serial number, model number, product number
    and purchase date of the unit, as well as proof of purchase.   This
    is to correctly identify or prove correctness of ownership, thus
    enhancing the security aspect of the audio system.     Recognised
    Service Agents or Dealers, such as Sextons, also have to provide us
    with the same details which they should obtain from their customer.
    When all this information is received by us, the DCP request form is
    passed to our Service Parts Section for action and despatch of the
    DCP.  I do not understand how Sextons can obtain these panels on a
    said "willy-nilly" basis.   Obviously, I will look into this matter
    further.
    
    Finally, I thank you for bringing these matters to my attention,
    particularly the way in which you were treated.   I would like to
    give you my personal assurance that you will not fall victim again
    to this treatment and that should you require further assistance
    from Clarion, please do not hesitate to contact me direct,

    What more can I say, that's good to hear.

    To be fair, at least they had the courtesy to look into the matter to
    a certain degree and that you are guaranteed good treatment in the
    future with the invitation to contact the service manager directly.
    
    Royston

    Have you managed to get a replacement panel out of them yet (or have
    you already told us the answer to that several notes ago)?
    
    Phil Gill.

    Yes I have got a panel from them.   After the Hanging up episode
    and me calling back and them more or less refusing to speak to me,
    I got on to Sextons and relayed the story to them.   They were
    quite helpful, and removed the radio for me free of charge, took
    the number and put it back in.    I filled out Clarions form and
    sent it in along with a cheque, they sent me a panel back.
    
    At this time I was waiting on a reply for my letter to there MD.
    A few weeks later when it became clear that I was not going to
    get one I was wishing I had just bin'ed the radio (bit extreme
    perhaps but I was never again going to have anything to do with
    that company).  However as we now seem to be back on speaking
    terms again, I am rather glad I didn't !