Conference terri::cars_uk

Sean,

Do you have an auto choke that may be stuck 'open' causing the smell ?

It may also be a problem in the engine bay,and the air getting sucked into 
the ventilation system is pulling the smell in to the passenger compartment.
eg : bad connections to the carb, or fuel lines.


They may be possibilities.

Warren


If I have just spoken a load of tosh, I'm sure someone will say so .

I used to have a 1.6 HLS Maestro (what a confession!). It suffered from a
strong petrol smell similar to the one you describe. Turned out to be the 
fuel line to the carb. This had a split in it in the engine bay. Strangely
enough, you couldn't really smell anything in the front, only in the back.
Might be worth checking.

Clive

   re.1 & .2 That is something worth checking out. I suppose that the air
     flow inside the car would bypass me and gather in the rear. So I
    should look under the bonnet ...
    
    What was your 1600 Hls like on the road re.2 . Mine is pretty smooth
    enen by todays standards but very noisy. I think that this may be due
    th the fact that it is the bog standard (not even an L spec) model.
    I'm thinking about extra (well even some) soundproofing.
    Is there anything decent and cheap on the market or is it a better
    option to go to a scrapper and lift some from a high spec model ?
    Sean
    

    
    
    I too have been told by rear seat passengers that they can smell
    petrol.
    I have an XR2i and wonder if I have a petrol leak somewhere
    because the fuel consumption is terrible.
    I think I'll have to have the garage check out if my assumption
    is correct; don't fancy having a car fire.
    
    
    ..Simon

    this is (often) caused by a hole in the exhaust system.
    
    Does your car have any form of vents in the boot to allow air flow
    inside the car. If so they usualy have 1 way flaps that can break off
    or jam open. When the engine is on overrun this can lead to a smell of
    fuel/exhaust  in the passenger cell, as per having the window or sun
    roof open.
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    Simon.

    RE.5  Yes I do have a hole in the boot. The welding seams have rusted
    away and the rear valence is in pretty poor shape also. I did't realise
    this until a couple of days ago. I was doing a bit of maintainence and
    dropped a big screwdriver into the booy and it when it hit the boot
    floor the end of it went straight through. I'll get it welded and see
    what the situation is then.
    
    My fuel consumption is okay and I did check the fuel lines (look
    alright) and the auto choke is'nt stuck open. Half of the time it
    doesn't open at all which makes for difficult starting in the mornings.
    
    So it looks like I need a welder....
    To mention the question I raised a couple of notes ago; Maestro owners
    come out of the closet and tell me is the car a naturally noisy beasty
    or do I have aloud example. On the motorway at 70mph I have to shout
    above the noise to my passengers. There is a lot of engine noise. Are
    they all like this ? What's a good soundproofing material (it's gotta
    be dirt cheap too)
    
    Any ideas.....
    
    Sean

    You can get soundproofing in a roll for around 8 - 10 pounds.  It's
    felt like, and looks a bit like the old fashioned carpet underlay. 
    Glue it to the floor and put the carpet back over it, really quietens
    things down.  You'll especially notice thatengine rattles and the
    higher frequency noise from the engine are reduced, but the engine
    booming sound will be cut as well.  I found 1 roll of the stuff was
    enough (just) to do the front of the car (Metro) and I'll get another
    to do the back and the boot to keep the road noise down a bit.
    
    You can also get stuff to put under the bonnet, it's similar but
    fireproof/fire resistant.  It goes up against the bulkhead or even
    attached to the underside of the bonnet.  A lot of diesel cars seem to
    have this as standard :-)
    
    Finally there's self adhesive sound deadening pads.  About the size of
    an A5 sheet of paper, black with small holes in.  Stick them inside
    your doors (against the outer skin) and under the bonnet for that
    Rolls-Royce clunk when you slam it, instead of the Leyland clang that
    you usually get.  
    
    Ian
    

    RE.7Does the likes of Halfords do this sort of soundproofing or do I need
    to go elsewhere ?
    
    yesterday I gave a lift to a friend who drives a P reg Austin Allegro
    Vanden Plas - and he commented upon how noisy my car is.
    
    I'm going to get that sound proofing 

    A thing I considered when I had a Maestro - but never got around to
    trying - was doing something about those enormous gaps around the door
    window frames.  I was thinking about using something like p-section
    rubber draught stripping to give a double-seal effect a la SAAB etc. 
    This would (theoretically) have two effects: it would increase the
    soundproofing and also fill in that gap, which must be generating a
    fair amount of wind noise.  The problem was that draught stripping
    materials only seem to be available seasonally (ie autumn), and are
    mostly designed for 3-5mm gaps, which on the Maestro won't cut it...
    
    I'm still thinking of doing this to my BX, and my wife's parents have
    an automatic Maestro which could also benefit from a few less dBs...
    
    Richard
    

    I had (have) the same problem with my Orion, but I have tracked down
    the problem! I found three rusty areas in the boot unber the boot mat,
    under futher investigation these rusty areas turned into three large
    rust holes, two of which are located in the same area on both sides
    of the boot, and all are over the cross sections that run front to rear
    under the boot panel. It is into these cross sections that the fuel
    tank is vented (common on most modern cars) so when I opened the
    sunroof/window the petrol fumes are drawn into the boot and then into
    the passenger compartment.
    
    ***WARNING TO ALL ORION DRIVERS*** This is a common fault and the rust
    attacks from the underside of the boot panel but inside the
    cross-member i.e. you can't see it until its too late......
    
    
    Neil 
                                                                    

    Think that this is a combination. I didn't mention it as I thought that
    it was insignificant but in the boot of the Maestro the little square
    drain plugs are missing in several places - right above the fuel tank.
    
    On that note RE 10. A small rusty patch should be whacked with a
    screwdriver or hammer when spotted. The type that Neil describes are
    the same as the ones I had in the valence of the maestro - they've been
    replaced with gaping holes. When I first saw them last year I tapped
    with a car key, nothing happened and I thought no more of it, until it
    was to late.
    
    So has anyone got any other things to watch out for with an oldish
    Maestro. That way I can get it sorted before it becomes a disaster
    area.
    
    Are there a lot of owners of cars 5-10 years old out there. I thought
    that if so, this note could be useful for those buying and running such
    models. Are there any other models which deserve attention, and lets
    avoid Maestro bashing, I've experienced that in the past...

    .11� Are there a lot of owners of cars 5-10 years old out there. I thought
    .11� that if so, this note could be useful for those buying and running such
    .11� models. Are there any other models which deserve attention, and lets
    .11� avoid Maestro bashing, I've experienced that in the past...
    
        Well, mine's an X-reg, isn't that 10yrs old? Only 4,500 miles on
    the clock (rolled over at 99,999 :-)).  Still going well with no
    problems other than stone chips that I know of...

    
    A friend of mine had a strong petrol smell in the back of the car when
    the windows were open...all sounds very similar, his turned out to be a
    fault in the weld on the fuel filler neck, basically the tank was
    venting into the rear of the cab through the air hole made by the weld
    fault, but only when the windows were open in the front and moving this
    caused the right vaccum condions for it to vent a treat

    
    A maestro caught fire in the Ayr (AYO) car park about 2 years ago,
    the owner said she couldn't get it started and then smelled petrol.
    She thought she had flooded it and waited 5 minutes and tried the
    ignition again and the thing just lit up. The owner got out but by the
    time the alarm was raised there wasn't much left of the car.
    
    

    I have a Citroen AX and when it was only 6 months old I could often
    smell petrol (it got worst over a 2 week period) and then one day while
    going shopping, after filling it up with petrol and driving up a
    steep slope, I noticed petrol running down the road in my rear view
    mirror! At I first thought that it was because I had over filled it and
    the slope was too steep. Then later when returning home and going
    around a sharp bend I noticed it again. What really worried me was that
    when I checked under the car a reasonable amount of petrol had ended up
    over the exhaust pipe!  

    When I got home I took the back seat out etc. and found that the petrol
    tank "cap" (which had the level sensor and other pipes running through
    it) had unscrewed (it has 3 locking points) and therefore petrol was
    just spilling out of it.

    Great, everything so far has been of interest and I'm sure it'll help
    when I get to check out this petrol pong. I don't think that I'm losing
    fuel becaause the economy is okay. I never work it out but I can do 200
    miles on �10-15 worth of four star. So I think that  I have a venting
    problem. I'd like to get it sorted because the idea of a car fire gives
    me a cold chill (ironic), and as I smoke when driving I could, if the
    fumes were strong, redefine the meaning of internal combustion !
    
    It's nice to see that other people have problems with their cars, makes
    me feel almost lucky. BUT.....
    
    Maestro owners, have any of you had problems with an erratic
    temperature guage. Mine seems to go from its normal position (when
    running) to cold (as if it isn't working) and sometimes it shoots up to
    the hot end of the scale in a matter of seconds causing the engine to
    automatically cut out (not nice when doing 70mph on the M4).
    Switching off the engine and restarting usually cures it (is it
    electrical) but it can reoccur within minutes - or it may read fine for
    400 miles or so.
    
    It's been fine since I changed the coolant three weeks ago - this
    morning on the way to work it dropped to cold after about a mile and
    stayed there . In DECpark I restarted it and it moved up to normal
    within seconds......... Ideas anyone ?
    
    Sean
    
    PS Anyone in Decpark seen that Vauxhall (Lotus) Carlton. Never mind a
    GTI/E/S - I'll have one of those please...  

re .16

I used to have a similar problem with the 1.6 HLS. Its coup de grace was to
literally explode the coolant expansion tank during a long journey. Problem
was fixed by replacing the temp-sensor, the thermostat and (obviously) the 
expansion tank. Also flushed the entire system at the same time. Never had
any problems after that. FWIW The car was eventaully written of when some 
idiot drove into the side of it. By then, though, it had done 110,000 miles
and was still running well.

Clive

    
    re .16/.17
    
    I to can own up as being a Maestro 1.3L owner 84 B vintage, but I must
    point out only as a second car, the real car is a Citroen 1.4 ZX
    Avantage ( great car ).
    
    Well, I too went round in circles chasing a temp guage problem /
    erratic performance only to eventually find out it was the Engine Temp
    censor i.e. I'd changed parts of wiring loom, and various other obscure
    bits and pieces. But when I eventually work out that it had to be the
    actual device itself, I found it to be in the most difficult point to
    reach and had to remove cooling expansion tank, Therm. housing and
    numerous hoses etc.
    
    The best is yet to come, it took over 2 hours to remove because I had
    metric spanners and it must be some sort of obscure imperial size and
    burred the corners of this lump of brass untill I eventually used the
    mole grips and nawed away at it bit by bit, until it moved for that
    first time.
    
    So beware if you do go and try replacing it.
    
    Regards
    Gordon.
    
    P.S. it cost me 15 quid from the garage, I couldn't get one off a
         scrapper i.e they were already missing ( must be a common thing to
         go )
    
    

    re .18
    
    Is the sensor located at the back of the thermostat housing above and
    to the right of the fanbelt ? Or is this just the connecting plug ?
    
    I'd like to get an exact location `cos, yep, I'm going to tackle the
    job. I have noticed that it is hard to find spanners that actually fit
    the engine nuts too. When I fitted an inlet manifold I had a hell of a
    problem - that was what I thought was causing the problem initially.
    The manifold to hose connections had rusted away and the coolant was
    leaking onto the electric fan connections. If you haven't checked
    yours, do, as I left it too late to cure (at least temporarily)
    New manifold is 75 quid at AR dealers, 15 at scrappers. There were some 
    at the scrappers rusted in the same place as mine was - common problem ?
    
    It's a real pain to fit the thing but it saves wasting a fortune at the
    garage.
	Thanks for that though, and the other comments - never mind petrol
    smells, will I rename this note Maestro heartache?
    
    Next week I'll ask all you Maestro owners - do you have noisy wheel
    bearings and Have you checked recently that your carpets are dry after
    a heavy rainfall (and I thought I could forget about leaky windscreens
    for the summer)
    
    Regs,
    
    Sean

    I too had a Maestro......1985 City model 4 speed, and don't apologise
    for it......
    I must say that it was in fact very reliable, but it did have a manual 
    choke (essential from what I heard from the father-in-law who'd had the 
    auto-choke/engine management system).
    
    I was so frustrated when trying to do my own servicing and
    maintenance......reason....a mixture of Imperial and Metric nuts and
    bolts.......reason.....most part UK, part German (eg. gearbox)/European
    sourced components.
    
    Never had a problem with fuel smells.......father-in-law's car often
    smells when just filled....petrol overflows due to expansion. 
    Could it be a problem with the air breather pipe to fuel tank? 
    
    Happy Motoring!
    
    
    

What are the probable causes of petrol smells in the Car.

I have a Vauxhall Cavalier and can smell petrol after the Engine has warmed 
up and I am changing gear a lot such as when in Town. The garage have 
tightened all the fuel hoses but this has made no difference. They seem to 
think this is still the problem but I think they may be some other 
explaination.

regards,

Ian

    My wife's Fiat Tipo 1.6 also exudes strong petrol smells, but 
    it's only noticeable outside, around the filler cap area, 
    after the car has stopped.
    
    Again the garage has checked everything and it's all "OK". I 
    assume it's from the breather but no other car I've had 
    reeked this much!
    
    A mystery...
    
    Rupert
    

    I'd go with the breather for the tank as in .-1
    
    My car whiffs of petrol when you lift up the front bonnet (where the
    tank is).
    
    Still, it could be pipes ......
    
    

My mum's Nova had this problem too. The garage checked the tank,
the pipes, changed the filler cap, etc.. but never cured the fault.

Let us know if you do get to the bottom of this.

    If you lift up the back seat and have a sniff around there can you
    smell anything? I had a problem with a Citroen AX where the petrol tank
    cover hadn't been fitted properly or worked its way slightly loose. A
    quick twist and it was okay after this.
    

	I had a problem with petrol smells when I changed
	to cheap (Asda) petrol.   It was the flexible pipe
	between the outside fuel cap and the under the rear 
	floor tank (in an MGB GT).   Once I'd tightened 
	up the jubilee clips all was OK.

	Dave

    My Tempra has a petrol reek around the filler cap area just after I've
    stopped too, same as the Tipo a few back. Strange thing is, the Tempra,
    and I suspect, the Tipo has a sealed fuel tank, ie no breather, so you
    get a big rush of air into the tank when you fill up from empty. So if
    air can't get in...... how can the pong get out??
    
    Dave. (Puzzled Tempra driver)
    
    

    
    Well the problem, according to the garage, is a kinked breather pipe.
    If it hasn't cured the problem I'll let you know.