Conference terri::cars_uk

    Kudos Dave... I've been following your progress. Glad you never gave
    up. Please continue the postings.
    Gary

    A farmer friend of mine had an old 1920s RHD Studebaker, bearing a
    strong resemblence to your drawing. It went to the States about 15
    years ago with a bloke called Bill Rabi (phonetic spelling of the
    surname). I remember it had a sticker in the back window: Give Blood,
    play rugby for Woodbridge.
    
    Laurie.

    You must get the patience of the year award for doing such a good
    drawing on a charachter cell terminla!.
    
    Richard

    Actually it's not too difficult when the car only has 90� angles on it!
    :-)
    
    Dave

  We took it our for a few more drives around the neighborhood Saturday and
  Sunday.  We're getting a good workout with the hand crank but I *do* need
  to get the electric starter working soon.
  
  It started backfiring out the carb a bit, but I think that was caused by
  not advancing the spark enough, or too much throttle.  I'll take the carb
  apart and clean that up too since I haven't played with it yet.
  
  I drained the old oil out of the tranny and diff and refilled them with
  GL4 85-90w gear oil.  The diff took about 3 quarts and the tranny about
  2.  The oil pan holds 6 quarts of 30w non-detergent oil.
  
  I'm still crunching gears a bit, but I did managed to downshift from 3rd
  to 2nd for a few turns without too much noise.  Everythings non-sychro of
  course.  Will it always grind a bit or is it possible to match revs
  properly and slip them right in?
  
  Dave

>>  I'm still crunching gears a bit, but I did managed to downshift from 3rd
>>  to 2nd for a few turns without too much noise.  Everythings non-sychro of
>>  course.  Will it always grind a bit or is it possible to match revs
>>  properly and slip them right in?
    
    With plenty of practice (and patience with the gearbox) it is possible
    to make a smooth gear change with a non-synchro box.
    
    Shaun.
    

    RE -2:
    
    Does double de-clutching help here?
    
    ie. dis-engage clutch and de-throttle
    
        shift into neutral
    
        re-engage clutch, thus bringing one-or-more gear-box shafts to
    similar speed as decelerating engine
    
        dis-engage clutch
    
        shift to new gear
    
        re-engage clutch as you pickup throttle
    
    Reg    

  Yup, that's the basic technique, but it still grinds a bit.  I find I can
  go from 1st to 2nd without double-clutching and it only complains a
  little bit.  But the shift from 2nd to 3rd (or 'top gear' as the old
  timers call it) takes double-clutching and it still grinds.  I suspect
  it'll just take more practice.
  
  The ratio difference from 2nd to 3rd is tremendous.  I'll dig through the
  manual to find the actual ratios, but the engine speed drops a whole
  bunch and the gear whine goes away.  Maybe that's because it's going 1:1
  through the tranny?  With the high torque engine, you hit 3rd gear at
  around 15-20 mph and stay there.
  
  Dave

    .7 has it on the nose. Double de-clutching is the correct way to do it.
    Road speed and engine revs are also important, and it's judging these
    that's so difficult. The synchronisation of pedals and gear lever is
    the easy part! One of the hardest things to get right after driving a
    modern car, is remembering that you need much longer to stop, and that
    slowing down to a near stop, and then pulling away, is actually quite
    difficult to do in a very old car. You'll see what I mean when you try
    it.
    
    Laurie.

    Re: .8 
    Most people refere to "double declutching" as "that process of speeding up 
    the engine when in neutral with the clutch up during a down change" so I 
    will use that definition here.   
    
    "Double declutching" will be only required when changing down
    gears ie 3 to 2, and 2 to 1 but NOT when changing up. The reason you
    are getting the crunch is that by double declutching changing up you
    are just completely missmatching the gear teeth speed. The objective is
    to get the two sets of gears you want to engage rotating at a speed
    such that the gear teeth are the same, so when you push then together
    they engage with out noise.  When you say the biggest problem is 2 to 3
    but then you say that the top ratio is is very high compared to 2 you
    have just given yourself the reason why you get the biggest crunch
    attempting that change.
    
    This is the method I use for my 1928 Morris which is a fairly typical
    late 20's type of car, (UK that is USA was a bit more advanced). 
    
    Changing up:
    Get to the speed you want in first gear then lift off the accelerator 
    and fully depress the clutch; now shift the gear into neutral lift up
    the clutch and WAIT FOR THE ENGINE SPEED TO SLOW DOWN somewhat  
    and don't touch the accelerator; depress the clutch again an 
    then push the gear into second (it will feel like its being pulled in) 
    lift up the clutch and put on the gas.  A good method to wait for the 
    "engine speed to slow down" is to count "one, two, three" (without rushing.
    If you think about it say for 5 MPH in 1st gear the engine is doing say 
    2000 rpm, but for 5 MPH in 2nd gear the engine is doing 750 rpm, so when 
    changing up the engine has to loose speed. For bigger spaces in ratios the 
    delay to let the engine speed drop will be longer so for 2nd to 3rd changes
    the delay in neutral may be longer (may need to count to "Four"). (For
    my car to get silent upchanges you have to wait for quite a long time
    and it sometimes appears that the engine is nearly idling).
    Up changes can't be rushed! Be patient! 
    
    For changes down this is when double declutching is required. Taking
    the 2nd to 1st gear change (normally thats the worse one to do) this time 
    the car is in 2nd gear at 5 MPH the engine is going at 750 rpm and we want 
    to get into 1st gear which needs an engine speed of 2000 rpm, so
    basically the engine speed needs to increase to engage the gears. The
    only problem is that if you try to change down with the clutch engaged
    its quite difficult because the engine is a big mass and any mismatch
    in gear speed will result in awful noise and maybe damage.  So what we
    need to do is get the input shaft of the gear box spinning at about
    2000 rpm to engage the 1st gear. 
    
    So this is the way to "double declutch". Get in 2nd gear and slow down
    until you want to change down, (this would be with the engine going fairly
    slowly), with your foot off the accelerator. Now depress the clutch
    and move the gear into neutral; lift up the clutch and press the
    accelerator to increase the engine speed (idealy slightly above the
    speed it would be doing in 1st); the input shaft is doing say 2200
    rpm; now depress the clutch and lift of the accelerator (the gear box
    input shaft was spinning at 2100 rpm and is now slowing down) and push 
    the gear into first.  (again you can time the accelerator depression
    by counting "one" slowly)
    
    It takes some skill but its possible to make silent down changes this
    way.
    
    If you want more detail drop me a mail or phone. Always
    willing to help fellow vintage enthusiasts.
    
    Mike
    

  Mike, thanks for the description.  Over the last few days I have been
  reviewing the weekend 'trips' and discovered exactly what you talked
  about.  I am used to double (de)clutching while downshifting and blipping
  the throttle on my rally car and street cars (for fun), but never had to
  do it while changing up.  I will try it the proper way (pausing in
  neutral without hitting the gas) this weekend and it should prove to be 
  much quieter!
  
  BTW, I received my motometer in the mail yesterday!  And for those of you
  who don't know what that is.......
  
  Dave

  Shifting was much quieter this weekend!  I even managed one shift from
  1st to 2nd without any grinding at all!  The gas tank has been all
  painted and sealed, but I will wait until this coming weekend to put gas
  in it.
  
  Dave

We did our first real outing with the car and a parade this weekend.  The parade
started about 6 miles from the house so all 3 cars from our neighborhood cruised
down together - our '24 Studebaker, the '58 Isetta and the '61 MB 190SL.

I have mounted seat belts in the Stude so we can mount the car seats for the
kids (4.5 and 2 years) so we can be legal (and safe) on the open road.  There
was plenty of space for tools and a few gallons of water (for the car) as well
as a cooler for our food and drinks.  It was about 95�F and bright sun.  We left
the house around 11:30am and didn't get back until 3:00pm.  Most of the time
spent waiting around for the parade to start at 1:30pm.  The route was only 1
mile and it took us 20-25 minutes.  The radiator kept nice and cool and actually
ran hotter on the way back cruising at 45 or so.

Yesterday I took the kids and our neighbor down to the local hardware store
about 8 miles away, so I'm getting a little braver.

We have a parade in early August and one in October, both within 20 miles of the
house.

Dave

Yesterday I put a deposit down on a 1926 Studebaker hearse!  Actually it could
be one of three things - a hearse, an ambulance or an estate wagon.  The hearse
and ambulance would only one bench seat, but the estate wagon would have two. 
We will make it into an estate wagon (with an easily removable rear seat) so the
whole family can ride along.

The wheel base is 142" (versus 119" for our '24 touring car) and it's somewhere
close to 20 feet long overall.  We figure it weighs in around 4500lb to 5000lb.

I should have it delivered in about 2 months.

Dave

I just found out that the 1993 La Carrera Panamericana rally was won by
two Mexicans in a 1954 Studebaker!  They beat 83 other teams.

Now, a little news out my cars....  I've discovered that actually using
the choke on the '24 really helps when starting it! :-)  It only takes
5-10 cranks on the hand crank instead of 5-10 *minutes* of cranking and 
sputtering (both me and the car.)  Of course, once it does start it's a 
delicate balance of backing the throttle down and slowing advancing the spark 
lever to get it warmed up and idling smoothly and slowly.

The '26 estate wagon isn't here yet.  It should have been picked up last 
week, but for some reason, the trucking company sent a truck that didn't have 
a winch.  They plan to pick it up by the end of this week and deliver it 
early next week.

Here's a quick rendition of the estate wagon:

                                                ________________________
                                                |    |    |            |
                                     o__________|____|____|____________|
                                    ]|___    |  |   =|=   |    ___     |
                                    //   \\  |  |____|____|  //   \\   |
1926 Studebaker Estate Wagon        |  X  |\----------------/|  X  |\---
(or hearse/ambulance)   	     \___/ 		      \___/

Dave

After I 'fired' the first trucking company I found one locally that picked it up
and delivered it within 5 days of my first call to them.  The hearse arrived
Saturday a little after noon.  It's gonna need a little more work than I first
thought, but all the major parts are there.  Mainly it'll need a lot of the
interior wood framing replaced.  The mechanical bits are pretty good so it
should actually run without too much fussing, but I'm not going to get caught up
in it right now.  I have the Isetta to get running and a new garage to build
first.

Dave 

>>>in it right now.  I have the Isetta to get running and a new garage to build
>>>first.

>>>Dave 

Isetta?  Isn't that the lifeboat?


				Malcolm.

Actually I have a few pictures I have to set up with the '24, '26 and 
Isetta.  One of them is to park the Isetta next to the hearse.  You see the 
hearse has a 12 foot wheelbase and tires that are 3 feet in diameter.  That 
means it is 9 feet from the back of the front tire to the front of the rear 
tire.  The Isetta is only 8 feet long, total.  So, I will be able to park 
the Isetta *completely* between the tires of the hearse.....

Dave

    How many Isetta's can you park INSIDE the hearse ?
    
    			:^)

  We popped a hole in the muffler of the '24 today....  One back fire too
  many I guess.  There are no records of my grandfather replacing it since
  he bought it (in 1950) so who knows how old it is.  I'll find a suitable
  replacement this weekend.
  
  We also did some dismantling on the inside of the hearse this evening. 
  We removed all the cheap 1/8th inch plywood one of the previous owners
  (PO for short) had installed.  This gave us a look at the structural wood
  underneath.  At least one door jam will have to be replaced but most of
  the wood looks pretty decent.  There is also a bracket (just a piece of
  wood with a hole in it really) for a light in the ceiling about halfway
  back.  It would be useful in an ambulance, but a bit uneccessary in a
  hearse.... 
  
  Dave

Well, the original muffler is back on the '24.  It turns out that the muffler 
can be dismantled and repaired!!  It is about 8" in diameter and 18" long and 
has two threaded rods going the length of it.  There are two cast iron end 
caps and three sheet metal tubes for baffles.  The outer and middle baffle 
(the outer baffle is the outside of the muffler) had split their seams so I 
had a friend with a welder spot weld them and I put it all back together.

From the look of the muffler it is either the original (which I think it is) 
or an exact replacement.

I have brought the 'new' starter for the '24 and the starter and generator 
for the hearse down to my friendly starter/alternator rebuilder.  I should 
have those back next week.  Maybe we can put the hand crank away!

I have also ordered original owners manuals for the '24 and '26.  The '26 is 
for the standard production car, but it will cover all the running gear and 
chassis of the hearse.  I already have a reproduction shop manual for the '24 
so I'm still on the look out for one of those for the '26.

Dave

We entered our first real car show this last weekend.  It was the Southest Zone 
Meet for the Studebaker Drivers Club and about 50 cars were there.  We had the 
oldest car (our 1924), the next oldest was a 1939.

The judging is a point system - every car starts with 400 points and they subtract 
points for various things as they judge the car.  The points are divided into 
different catagories with the exterior and interior a good percentage of the 
overall score.  I don't have the sheet with me today, but the paint was worth 40 
points but if the engine didn't run, they only took off 10.   Obviously more show 
than go.

Diane did her best giving the car a good rub down and polish before the judging 
took place and we managed a 2nd place trophy.....in a 1 car class......:-)

You have to understand how they award 1st, 2nd and 3rd place trophies.  It's not 
based on the other cars in the class, but on how many points your car scores.  To 
get a 1st place trophy, you need 367-400 points.  A 2nd place is 334-366 points 
and 3rd place (no trophy) is 333 and below.  We were quite suprised with the award 
since we didn't know how to prepare for the show.  Now we know a few things we can 
fix for the next show and do even better.

Dave

    Well done Dave. Next Studebaker's meeting in Europe ?

  Actually I can give you dates of the Australian and New Zealand
  Studebaker meets, but I don't know of an active group in Europe.  The
  Studebaker Drivers Club is international and there seems to be a good
  number of members down under, but not in Europe.  There are some members
  in Sweden and that area however.
  
  Our next show is in two weeks - it's an 'orphan' car meet - Studebakers,
  Hudsons, Nashs and they'll even let us bring our Isettas since BMW has
  all but forgotten about them....
  
  Dave

    .24�  Studebaker meets, but I don't know of an active group in Europe.  The
    
    I meant: when do you cross the ocean with your car(s) ?

No current plans to tour Europe with the Studebaker at this point, although 
packing the Isetta in our luggage might be an option.....:-)

Dave

ps - however, any CARS_UK reader has an open invitation for a ride if you find 
your way over to the Atlanta area!

    Dave,
    
    I met someone in Toronto over last week-end who came up to buy an
    Isetta, is this a freind of yours.
    and congrats on the trophy,
    regards,
    JP

Yup, that would be Robert Gray (LEDS::).  He picked up a British built Canadian 
market BMW Isetta.  He wanted something a bit more complete than we could supply.

Back on the Studebaker info, I finally found the cause of the blue spots that are 
in the paint (dark green body) on the cowl and hood.  When my grandfather bought 
the car, it was covered with chicken sh*t and needed a new paint job.  He had it 
repainted, but evidently didn't have the metal prepped properly.  Whatever acids 
were not removed from the metal are causing the paint to discolor slightly.

This isn't a major problem because the body is dark green (black fenders) and the 
discoloration is a dark blue.  From 10-20 feet you don't notice it.  The only way 
to fix it is to strip the paint and retreat the metal to remove the acids and then 
repaint it.  It's not something we want to do right now so we'll leave it.

Dave

We did our first wedding with the '24 over the weekend.  The bride (maiden name
was Studebaker) wanted to arrive at the wedding in a Studebaker!  She called our
club and got in touch with the members who had 4 door cars.  Ours won out
because of the age and style of course...

We trailered it about 90 miles south of here for the wedding.  The ceremony took
place on the large front porch of a big old house so we parked about 2 blocks
away with her and her father in the back seat and Anthony (5.5 years old) and
myself in the front.  We just drove up the driveway, stopped, helped her get out
with her father and drove around back.  Kind of a short appearance, but
certainly the center of attention for 30 seconds or so!  At least we were able
to stick around for the reception (food and cake) afterwards! :-)

Dave

    There you go Dave, ready made career for when you get TFSO'd!!!
    
    ;-))))
    
    Mike

Yup, and when we get the hearse going we'll take care of them on the other end
as well!! :-)

Dave

    You're a sad man Burden!
    
    BTW I was flicking through the 57 channels and nothing on and saw on
    MTV a video, could have been Take That but I'll check and low and
    behold centre screen is a lovely red Isetta Coupe.
    
    Mike

The new garage bay is all done - 27 feet deep and 12 feet wide with bare 2x6
studs on the walls (if that makes sense to you) so we can fill them with
shelves.  This new bay will house the hearse and the Isetta.

On the car front, we drove the '24 to the kids daycare center, about 5 miles
down the road, for a Family Fun day on Sunday.  On the way a valve spring broke
and make an awful racket and caused power to drop a bit.  I couldn't remove the
spring pieces with the tools I had so we went home and brought the van and
trailer back and trailered it home.

The '26 has the same valve springs so I will simply swap one for now and then
look for two complete sets for both cars soon.

Fortunately, the springs are real easy to get to.  Just take off the inspection
plate on the side of the block with 3 nuts and all the lifters, springs and
valves are right there!

Dave

  I checked the differential ratios on both Studes today, just for fun. 
  The '26 hearse has a 4.60 ratio, and it appears the '24 has about a 4.20.
  
  We pulled the diff cover off the '26 to check so we're certain (46 and 10
  teeth on the gears), but we just measured the driveshaft revoltions per
  wheel revolution on the '24 so we don't have an accurate figure for it.
  
  Given that the '24 tops out around 45mph, comfortably, the hearse will
  probably get to about 35mph....
  
  Dave

I found a Studebaker parts book that lists the ratios available for my cars:

1922-24 Model EL/EK (ours is the EL)
3.71
4.33 (this is what we have)

1925-26 Model ER
4.18
4.60 (this is the one in the hearse)
5.11

Dave

A late, but *heavy* Christmas present has arrived.  Someone in Idaho (2000+
miles away) had some old Studebaker parts for sale and he happened to have a
Special Six engine (same as the '24).  The engine in the '24 is fine, but having
a spare is nice too.

He crated it up and shipped it by truck COD - I get to pay for shipping and the
engine when it arrives.  Well, it's at the freight terminal here in Atlanta and
I'll go have it loaded into my van tomorrow.  I asked about the weight since
neither of us knew how heavy this thing would be.  The engine and crate he built
around it weighs 776 lbs!  That's just about as heavy as a complete Isetta!!

The shipping cost me twice what I paid for the engine....

Dave

We made the longest trip to date with the '24 Studebaker yesterday.  It was
an approximately 70 mile round trip into downtown Atlanta and back.  Our
Studebaker club had it's March meeting at the Varsity downtown (for those
familiar with Atlanta) and the weather was great so we took a cruise.

The trip down took about 1.5 hours through some fairly heavy stop and go
traffic since we avoided the highways.  We used up about 3 quarts of oil, most
of which ended up on the front of Diane's VW Squareback, which was following 
the Studebaker as support vehicle.

When we arrived we found the bracket for the upper fan belt pulley had slipped
forward and caused the pulley to drop so the fan had not been working.  The
water temp looked okay through the motometer and it didn't lose much water.

As with any trip we take, the floor of the back seat it taken up with a case of
oil, gallon jugs of water and tools.  We needed them yesterday....

It was hotter when we headed home and after about 10 miles the motometer was
right up to the top and more smoke than normal was coming from under the hood. 
I found a gas station and pulled over.

The top of the head was smoking and there was water pouring out of the bottom
of the radiator.  The fan pulley had slipped off again and this time one blade
of the fan hit the bottom tank of the radiator, bent sideways and sheared one
of the tubes off.  We took the hood off and let it cool down.

I discovered why the pulley kept slipping forward.  There is a large bolt used
to adjust the height of the upper pulley.  There is also a nut under the head
which I thought was simply used to lock the bolt in place.  I would snug the
nut down, but not too tight.  It turns out the nut is used to hold the bracket
onto the post sticking out of the block!  If the nut is not properly tightened,
the pulley slips off the post.  Needless to say, I tightened that sucker down
this time.

But, what to do about the sliced tube in the radiator?  I took a pair of needle
nosed pliers and crimped the upper section of the tube off, but the lower part
was sliced off even with the bottom tank.  Chewing gum or silly putty would
have been perfect.  We settled for a plastic key fob and a nail....

We filled up the radiator and all our plastic jugs and planned to stop 10
minutes down the road to check it out.

The engine temp stayed low, partially due to the decrease in air temp, caused
by the hour or so we were stopped patching everything up.  After 10 minutes we
only had to add about 1/2 gallon - pretty good.  We stopped 2 more times before
getting home and each time it took less than 1/2 gallon of water.

Other than that 'minor' problem, the rest of the car performed as expected. 
The stop and go wasn't that bad to deal with, with a little anticipation when
coming up to traffic lights.  We also had lots of waves and honking horns from
other drivers.  One guy in very nice early 70's Pontiac convertible offered 
to trade cars at one stop light, but we kindly refused.... 

I think we'll keep the sliced tube crimped off and solder up the hole at the
bottom.  We have a few more trips planned now, on less crowded roads, but
yesterday certainly was a learning experience and gives us lots of confidence
in the car.

Dave

    Nice one!
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    And to think I'd complain if the Civic didn't start first time.
    
    	Rik

We had the 'big' Studebaker meeting this past weekend about 15 miles from the
house.  We hired an flat bed truck, with an 18' bed, to haul the hearse down and
back, and drove the '24.

The oldest vehicle at the show was a 1910 Studebaker farm wagon, but we had the
oldest motorcars.  In fact, there were no other pre-war cars, so we had them
beat by at least 20 years!

The hearse was just entered for show, no judging.  Regardless we did our best
getting it cleaned up and dusted off.  (The car wash area with hoses and towels
was about 100 yeard away, and we we're about to push the hearse that far so we
had to make do with a bucket of water and a rag...)  I did clean the windows
which helped a lot :-)

The '24 cleaned up real well and the two cars looked pretty impressive sitting
side by side.

The judging is based on points and a 400 'perfect score' system.  We had 60
points deducted so ended up with 340 which is a second place trophy.  First
place is 365 to 400 so with a little work we should be able to get to the next
level soon.

Overall there were about 75 Studebakers at the show including 2 large 6 wheel
trucks and 5-6 pickups.  There were about 12 Avantis including one of the 9 1964
'R3' versions the Studebaker factory produced before closing down.  In fact,
that R3 Avanti scored a perfect 400 points!

Dave

We drove the '24 in our local 4th of July Parade yesterday.  Received lots of
comments from the people in the parking lot before the parade and during it from
the people on the sides of the road.

We almost made it on the evening news from an Atlanta TV station.  The station
had filmed the parade and called the organizer of the parade to get the names of
some of the people in the parade, including ours.  I guess they planned to use
clips of the parade as fill ins during the news, but never did.

I think we'll invite one of the news anchors from that station to ride in our
car next year, that will ensure us some air time!

Dave

Tis the season for car shows - we drove to one about 15 miles away 2 weeks ago
and have another in 2 weeks about 25 miles away.  We've also found out about
the 1997 Glidden Tour, which happens once a year in the US.

Originally (1900's or so) the Glidden Tour was a reliability run for current
day motorcars.  Sometime in the 40's or 50's it was started back up by two
of the big car clubs (AACA and VMCCA).  The current tour is 5 days long and
covers between 500 and 600 miles.  They pick a central town each year and
do 100-120 mile tours from that town each day.

This year it will be in Thomasville, GA (250 miles south of Atlanta) so we
are preparing to enter the event.  Only vehicles from 1936 and older are
allowed to do the tour.  This is not a race, each day you finish (within
an alotted time period I assume) you receive a ribbon.  If you complete all
5 days, you get a trophy.  If you fail to finish a day or two, you can fix
the car and continue on the other days if you wish.

The 1997 Glidden Tour will be on the last week of October and I have a neighbor
riding shotgun with me.

Dave