Conference terri::cars_uk

Shaun should clean it up ? Shaun left it there in the first place ? Shaun hit 
the oncoming car (possibly) ?

    I think it's not the fault of the contractors. I always thought the law
    took the view that you should be in control of your car whatever the 
    road conditions. 
    
    Huw.  

    
    It puts the sh*ts up me on my motorbike I can tell you...
    
    I ride home at about 2mph where I regularly encounter the old tractor
    tracks. Hitting that on a bend, in the dark, in the wet... no chance !
    
    Trouble is, car drivers don't seen to appreciate this as they hover 2
    feet from my back tyre, and I feel a pratt for going so slow...
    
    Ah well, better safe...
     

�Shaun should clean it up ? Shaun left it there in the first place ? Shaun hit 
�the oncoming car (possibly) ?
    
    No...                              
    
    Shaun had it happen to him.  I started to brake for a bend, and hit a
    patch of mud.  The back end swumg towards the gutter, I managed to
    catch it, but in doing so left the drivers side front wing just over
    the centre of the road.  A guy in a cavalier coming the opposite way
    decided it was too good a chance to miss, and collided with the front
    of the car.
    
    There was a junction on the outside of the bend, and the tracks of mud
    trailed off along the adjoining road.  The council could not be liable,
    as at the time of the accident, they didn't know abount the mud on the
    road, and were therfore not negligent.  The only hope is to try and
    find out who the farmer is and try and sue him for negligence.
    
    Shaun.

    Hmmm.
    
    Although it is an offence to 'carry mud onto the highway' (however that
    is supposed to be worded), I guess the onus will always be on the
    driver to be in full control of their vehicle at all times and in all
    conditions...
    
    I know a friend who managed to get into a bad skid when overtaking
    another car (other car slowing for a turning, ny friend doing about
    30mph - or so).  He accelerated as he went by, which just happened
    to be where there was a sheet of ice on the road (which he had not
    noticed - that being his own fault).  The ice sheet was there because
    the local water mains had decided to spring a leak, and there had been
    a very heavy frost...  The resulting ice patch could be attributed to
    the water board, but since it was still my friends fault for having
    an accident, he could get no recompense.
    
    What then happened (in the accident) was that his car started to
    'fishtail', whereupon he completely lost control (easy entry point for
    an argument for driver training on skid pans) and the car was going
    [very] sideways up the road.  It seems that it was about this time
    that grip was restored to the wheels (tyres), so the car decided to
    make for 'exit stage right' and visited someones front garden.  To make
    matters worse, that garden had a high-banked rockery and the car went
    up the end of that, which caused it to roll over into the next-door
    neighbours garden.  They did not have a rockery.  Instead, they had a
    row of conifers at the front of their garden.  The trunks of these
    trees were about 5 inches in diameter.  That made them fairly strong.
    
    A bit stronger than the roof of his car, which sustained a very
    major dent.  Not so strong that the roof gave in altogether though.
    The first tree in the row did lose out in the collision, but it
    caused the rolling car to lose enough energy that the next tree
    mamaged to stop the car - in an inverted position.
    
    Luckily, nothing much happened from this point on, except that my
    friend was extremely shocked/dazed/whatever and his sister, who was
    a passenger at the time, had to wear a neck brace for a while to
    recover from the 'whiplash' injury that she sustained.  Of course,
    the car was a write-off.  The owners of the [second] garden claimed
    for a new tree (which they never planted !).  The water board did
    fix the leak, but as stated early on, they were not held responsible
    for the ensuing accident.  Perhaps because they had not been given
    sufficient time to recticy the fault (in the water main) or to put
    up signs warning of the slippery road surface.  My friend has been
    more than a little bit nervous in snow and icy conditions ever since
    then (but, it is easily argued, it is up to him to get his confidence
    in those conditions).
    
    Anyway, just a tale that I can report on...
    
    Another [much shorter] one would be when I slowed down/stopped for a
    tractor to turn off from a main road, just to see that the car coming
    along behind me had not noticed !  Until it was *almost* too late...
    I was watching in my mirror as the driver of the other car was closing
    ground quite rapidly and I was thinking 'What do I do now ?'.  It was
    quite obvious from the expression of the driver behind as to when they
    realised my car was not moving (more horror than on my face, possibly).
    The other car went heavily onto the brakes and actually skidded to be
    positioned across both lanes of the road.  Anyway, there was no collision 
    andI continued on my way with great feelings of relief (and worry !).
    
    J.R.

    re -1
    
    Was that 30 or 130 mph ??
    
    :-)

�    Was that 30 or 130 mph ??
    
    My friend said that it all happened at a speed of 30 mph.
    
    Even if he was understating things, I know he would not have been
    doing more than 40mph at the time...  Even so, think on this :
    
    If you were travelling in your car, in a forward direction at 30 mph,
    whereupon your car was persuaded (through bad conditions + poor control)
    to point sideways across the road, whereupon grip could be restored,
    so that your car then travelled in the direction it was now pointing
    (maybe down to 20 mph by now ?).  If the front of the car then had to
    go up a bank (the rockery), don't you think it likely that it would
    be *extremely likely* to roll over ?  That it then broke a tree trunk
    (not especially big, but not insignificant, either) and stopped against
    another is not at all surprising.
    
�    Was that 30 or 130 mph ??
�    :-)
    
    I did see the smiley, but have you ever been in a car that was
    *really* travelling sideways at 30 miles per hour ?
    
    It doesn't take much time at all to turn into an accident...
    (nor does it take long to correct it and travel forwards again,
     if the driver makes the right response *at the right time*).
    
    J.R.

    I may have missread wht happened, but  I have to comment that whatever
    the direction the car was facing, the force was acting in the direction
    he was originally travelling. As grip was restored he should have found
    he was dragging sideways and stopped quite quickly.
    
    If he shot off at a tangent or right angles then he must have still had
    drive engaged for the engine to send him off that way.
    
    Richard

�    he was originally travelling. As grip was restored he should have found
�    he was dragging sideways and stopped quite quickly.
    
    I sort-of agree here, since going sideways does scrub off speed, but
    he was on a *very* low-friction surface, so wheels and transmission
    hadn't necessarily stopped rotating...
    
�    If he shot off at a tangent or right angles then he must have still had
�    drive engaged for the engine to send him off that way.
    
    So, yes, drive was still engaged.
    
    In his explanation to me, he said that when the car fishtailed, he slipped
    in the seat and his feet were no longer in control of the pedals.  
    
    I also don't know at quite what angle he went off the road, it was
    probably not exactly perpendicular.  If at only 45 degrees to the
    road, he could do that by attempting to recover from his skid.
    
    My view of the whole incident is that it was very unfortunate, but
    [barring his sister getting whiplash] involved no injury.  It could
    possibly have been avoided had he some skill in controlling his car
    under these sort of conditions (or if he didn't overtake other cars).
    
    He agreed afterwards that when we next had some snow on the ground, he
    was going to 'go out and play' (on some local Army ground, or in empty
    car parks).  Sad to say, when we did get snow and he had another car,
    he 'bottled out' of this option (even though quite a few friends all
    enjoy this sort of activity).  Result is that he is now *scared* of
    icy road conditions (rather than being simply wary, or cautious).
    
    J.R.

	I have been known to polish up my icy skills in the DEC
	Park car park when it's snowed the night before.  (So long
	as you arrive early enough).  Failing that there are lots
	of places offering skid pan courses (dodgy tyres, oil and
	water), why not buy him a course for his birthday/Christmas?

	Dave

Dodgy tyres, oil, and water? Where have you been Mr Rusling. Have you not heard
of these new fangled contraptions that fix to the bottom of the car and lift
any combination of wheel? Great fun - I recommend Silverstone.

Dave.

 >> Dodgy tyres, oil, and water? Where have you been Mr Rusling.
    
    THRUXTON possibly? They still use these methods.
    
    Mark

�Dodgy tyres, oil, and water? Where have you been Mr Rusling. Have you not heard
�of these new fangled contraptions that fix to the bottom of the car and lift
�any combination of wheel? Great fun - I recommend Silverstone.
    
    Or even better still the cars with the electronically adjustable
    suspension and steering (for all wheels) that are used at Donnington
    (or not, depending on the onboard computer !)
    
    Shaun.
    

	Where have I been?  Castle Combe was what I was thinking
	about.  I'd love a go in one of those cradle affairs where
	the instructor can make any wheel go light at any time.
	Probably very instructive.

	Dave