Conference terri::cars_uk

    �our smaller roads and it does seem that a significant minority of
                                                           ^^^^^^^^
    �people towing caravans are doing so with either too small a car or too
    �little understanding of what's required to tow something that heavy.
    
    Minority. Surely some mistake, given the number of badly towed caravans
    I saw during 600 miles of driving yesterday.
    
    Clive

    
    The anti caravan club eh ? A far better club would be the
    anti idiot drivers club. Now that would be a success.
    
    JN.

    I PERSONALLY FELL THERE SHOULD BE SOME KIND OF DRIVING TEST BEFORE
    BEING ABLE TO TOW A CARAVAN, YOU CAN JUST JUMP INTO A HGV AND DRIVE
    YOU HAVE TO PASS A TEST.

    
    There is already a CLOC (centre lane owners club). How about a club
    called Anti-Cloc-wize?
    
    Tim

    I am usually a fair person and in this case I don't seen any reason not
    to apply like principles.
    
    All drivers intending to tow a caravan should take a test on the basics
    of towing. 
    All cars that tow caravans should have a special 200% increase on the
    Road Fund License.
    All caravans should be limited to 50mph. (I seem to remember 50MPH
    stickers at one point but I still seem to get passed when I pottering
    along at 70MPH.)
    All caravans are only allowed to use roads during the hours of 20:00 to
    06:00 between 1 April and 30 September. This requirement can be waived
    if the driver has purchased a special carnet. Cost - �50.00 for each 
    week of use. 
    
    Any other special (but fair) requirements?

    Dave

perhaps this would be better discussed in GLOVES::CARAVAN


...Art

    
    Au contraire, Art.
    
    This is the chance for us non-caravaners to hit back at the caravans!
    :^)
    
    Personally, I think it'd be fairer to impose a road tax on the caravan
    itself, rather than the tow car (also be easier to control - how could
    you prove that a car had or had not towed a caravan in a year?).
    
    I've no problem with caravans on motorways, but on tight single and
    dual carriageway roads some tow-ers can exhibit little consideration for
    their fellow road users. They aren't, on the whole, dangerous, but they
    rarely pull over to let a queue of traffic pass them like a tractor or 
    milk float do. Maybe there should be roads where caravans are banned
    during certain hours?
    
    Mark
    
    PS And what kind of idiot driving instructor takes raw beginners out in
    the rush hour!?!?!? But that's a different note! :^)

I used to enjoy ( When younger ) passing caravans in my brothers truck.
Pull into middle lane ....pass leaving about 4 feet gap between side of 35+ feet
of wagon...watch fun in mirror ....I think they call it the snake.

                         KR

    re .8
    
    Not really that funny. Tends to cause a lot of accidents. If you want
    some fun, overtake a caravan just before an up-hill, then slow right
    up, change down and accelerate away leaving caravan and tow-car
    struggling to get going again.
    
    Clive (who hates caravans)
    

Why limit this to caravans, and not all towed items ?

    
    This all sounds like pretty responsible driving to me.
    
    JN.

    Not sure about the conference refered to in .6 (GLOVES::CARAVAN) but
    the topic has cropped up in TRUCKS::CARAVANS_UK.
    
    As a caravanner of many years and miles, I will chip in my tuppence
    worth.
    
    I agree that *all* trailers should be subjected to an annual
    roadworthyness test as are commercial trailers.  Some owners do
    absolutely no maintenance to their outfits from one year's end to the
    next.  I used to have a neighbour who's elderly caravan sat in the
    garden for 50 weeks of the year.  He used to pump the tyres up, hitch
    up and go to France for two weeks.  The state of the tyres defied
    description save to say I have a better one on my wheel barrow!  I
    would even be willing to pay some road tax as they do in Sweden (they
    even have the trailers separately registered as well.)
    
    A recent roadsite check by one of the police forces revealed that the
    majority of 'vans were not roadworthy with brake and lights faults high
    on the list.  If I recall correctly there was a failure rate of 60% but
    then recent figures show that 35% of cars fail their MOT.
    
    I also agree that the current driving test requirements are totally
    inadequate for towing.  The basic solo car test is hopeless so how can
    it meet the needs of towing?  There should be an additional test that
    covers at least reversing an outfit along the lines of the HGV test.
    (As the holder of an HGV Class 1 I know what's involved.)
    
    As for 'vans holding up the traffic I agree that some people try to tow
    a 1 ton 'van on a 1300 cc car!  These people are *dangerous*.  I find I
    normally get held up by solo cars!  Providing that the 'van is
    correctly loaded, is being towed by a vehicle that is both powerful
    enough and heavy enough by an experience driver there should be no
    problem with towing at 60mph.  To have caravans and trailers travelling
    slower than the legal limit for HGVs is absurd.
    
    Another pet hate are folks with inadequate mirrors who haven't a clue
    what's behind them.  Mind you, a lot of car drivers don't know what the
    mirrors are for!
    
    As you can see I am all for improving road safety but at the same time
    we reserve the right as individuals to use our caravans.  Most road
    safety is about attitude and tolerence - the noter who suggested
    `buzzing' caravans with a truck should not be allowed on the road!
    
    I'll now put my soapbox away and give the 'van its twice yearly service
    prior to heading off to the wilds of Yorkshire.
    
    
    Alan

	As sometimes before said: Don't generalise! All caravaners
	are not pain! Some of them know how to give way to those
	who go faster. 

	Hannu

	Ps. I don't tow anything

    �I'll now put my soapbox away and give the 'van its twice yearly service
    �prior to heading off to the wilds of Yorkshire.
    
    Oh gawd, another caravan in my way up here :-)
    
    Only joking, its nice to see that not all caravan owners are total
    pi!!@cks.
    
    Clive

Re: .-1

But they are still a menace on the road for anyone who thinks that
over 60mph is safe ;-)

Richard. 
(High Speed Enemy of all Caravans, and trucks, and buses etc, and ....)

    
    I don't tow personally, but I agree a lot of caravanners are a menace
    on the road.
    
    But with the right driver, right car and proper maintenance there is no
    reason why caravans should be a problem, how about:-
    
    van roadworthyness test tyres,brakes,lights,structure,etc.
    combination suitability test, power,weight,rear suspension,etc
    
    extra road tax should also be paid, possibly in the form of a charge
    for the tests.
    
    anyone caught towwing without test papers is prosecuted for dangerous
    driving.
    
    I would suggest a minimum 2litre engine for towing, or perhaps minimum
    torque figures.
    
    Richard

    I think you guys are getting this all out of proportion.
    
    The problem is road congestion. There are too many vehicles, of all
    types, trying to use the roads.
    
    There are two possible solutions. More roads, or usage restrictions.
    
    Oh there is a third solution. Pick on minorities, and force them off
    the roads (sometimes referred to as the Yugoslav solution).
    
    My pet hate is all those TNT, Parcel Force, Lynx, etc, lorries carrying
    goods that used to travel by rail (e.g. newspapers) until the continued
    lack if investment in the rail network made it uneconomic to continue.
    
    JK
    
    (Non-caravan owner, although I did tow one behind my 2.8 4x4 Sierra
    estate and kept getting baulked by various "GTi"s and "E"s!!)

    Just to add my bit....
    
    I've never towed a canavan. I've watched some people attwempt it, and
    sometimes i am suprised, when i get overtaken by a "snaking" caravan.
    I've even watched one tip over at 50+ mph. I would strongly agree to
    the testing comments. I do tow a trailer. It's about as long as a
    caravan, and belongs to a local scout troop. I spent 2-3 weeks towing
    it around empty, just to get the feel, and praticed backing it around,
    (Very enlightening). I shall be towing it to kent atr the weekend, and
    will NOT exceed 50 mph.  Anyhow, I've been reading this and just
    thought i'd get the trailer mechanics checked out, good job i did. The
    braking system was stuck off !!, and the chassis was twisting, when
    full up of various bits of scouting kit.  Worried , i was, so i found
    this nice man who's in the know, and now its SAFE. If i had not read
    this note, I'd just hooked up and gone off into the sunset....
    
    I think must people with caravans, ect. (generalisation), do just that. hitch up and go.
    It's education thats needed. 

A couple of times a year I tow a 60 foot latice tower, the type you see on 
motorways that hold large work lamps. The trailer is about 20 odd foot long
and is wider that the landrover, it weighs best part of two tonnes. Great fun 
when you realise that the auto-brake doesn't in fact work :-( It is fixed so
I will be towing it in a couple of weeks time. I always aim to be out of rush
hour traffic, but sometimes don't quite manage it.

I was traveling from Jnc 11 to Jnc 12 (M4) when I was overtaken by large lorry.
He came in so close and so fast that the landy and trailer started to snake
quite badly, I was onyl doing about 40 MPH. I managed to slow down and return
to stability, but it gave me quite a fright. So please be careful when 
overtaking vehicles with trailers, it could be me next time and my combined
weight will be over 4 tonnes (also loaded with a couple of generators). 

	;-)

Simon  

	It's not so much caravans on the road that I don't like
	but the visual damage that they do to the 'beauty spots'
	that they inhabit (or should that be polute).

	-John

    re .19
    
    Simon, when I found myself snaking (towing 60 foot tower for Ham Radio)
    I followed advice and accelerated out of the snake, rather than
    braking. This always worked. I don't tow towers around as much as I
    did.
    
    Cheers, Another Simon

Hi Simon,

HF Field day perhaps? Sounds like we have the same type of tower.

The 'chasis' looks like this from above.

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Simon de G6ZTZ

    
    Whoever thought out the caravan concept should be strung up by the *****
    
    It's time to get tough with the idiots who tow too large a van with too 
    small a car and at too fast a speed. One of "them" recently killed a 
    veteran cyclist last week near my home (guy charged with careless driving).
    I passed by the scene of the accident, and felt sick and disgusted that 
    the law still allows people to tow these "liabilities".
    
    Ban the "van" 
    
       

	Having just driven the A1 from Edinborogh to Newcastle, I admit to
	feeling like disposing of some caravan dirvers.

	Once you get three caravans behind each other, overtaking is a near
	impossibility. 
	The spray kicked makes visibility very poor - even when its stopped 
	raining, and at 40mph this was very frustrating.

	Heather

    well, It seems that caravanners are guilty of everything here, driving
    too fast, driving too slow, they are the only ones to break the law, to
    have illegal vehicles, they are not allowed to drive dangerously while
    it is quite acceptable for others to intimidate them by their OWN
    dangerous driving.
    
    Maybe, when a Hater next gets hot under the collar, he/she should look
    to see whether the Caravan Tower is being prevented from making good
    progress by a slower CAR in front, check their OWN speed to see if its
    legal, & the condition of their own car & how it is being driven.
    
    Me ? I'm a car driver most of the time, but maybe for 5% of my annual
    mileage I tow a caravan,(serviced, big mirrors, good tyres etc), who
    believes in live & let live.
    
    There are plenty of laws already in place for the police to prosecute
    BAD DRIVERS, whether they are towing or not.
    
    As for punitive road tax Dave, saying that's fair is a contradiction in
    terms. As well as that the Caravanner is already paying extra duty on
    the extra fuel consumed. Better still to scrap road tax for everyone.
    
    The Caravan Club will train drivers for the higher standard needed to
    tow a caravan, but as always you will not reach all drivers, just as
    you will not reach the driver of a Renault 5 in the Dec Pk carpark. who
    uses the car without roadtax & with a set of totally bald tyres.
    
    Hit the bad guys, instead of interfering with the personal liberties of
    the law-abiding, please.
    
    Tony.

.25>tow a caravan, but as always you will not reach all drivers, just as
.25>you will not reach the driver of a Renault 5 in the Dec Pk carpark. who
.25>uses the car without roadtax & with a set of totally bald tyres.
    
    $ SET MODE/FLAME = ON
    
    Why not shop the thieving, inconsiderate b******d to the police !
    
    Before people wade in at me, just consider what the consequences would
    be if he/she killed or injured someone in an accident - I don't think
    that his/her insurance company would be paying up as the car has not
    been taxed and maintained as required.
    
    It is also a form of theft not to pay the licence - it is totally
    unfair for licence payers to keep on subsidising people like this, who
    IMO should not be let out on the road at all.
    
    $ SET MODE/FLAME = OFF
    
    	Terry

re.26:

No need to shop. Specials read this conference.

Dave.

    
    Why not enter the details here (colour, registration etc..) and let
    someone else do it ?

    Do you mean special constables ??
    
    BArry
    

re.29/30:

Yep, Special Constables.

Dave.

    re .25 

    >As for punitive road tax Dave, saying that's fair is a contradiction in
    >terms. As well as that the Caravanner is already paying extra duty on
    >the extra fuel consumed. Better still to scrap road tax for everyone.

    Tony
    A lot of what I wrote was mainly from the hip and tongue in cheek. I
    missed out the obligatory :-). 
    
    On the serious side, what I meant by saying fair is that if I
    found myself behind a queue of traffic behind a 'van, I personally
    would feel more amenable to this situation knowing the owner is paying
    extra tax (through RFL and fuel tax). This is no different in the HGV
    vehicles are assessed and their fuel bills are even higher. 
    
    Dave