Conference terri::cars_uk

    There is the saying- that one can buy with one's money, what one likes!
    
    Unfortunately the British people paid for the Lady-Di's Merc via the 
    tax deductions which come off our pay each week!
    
    Personally, I think it is a total and utter disgrace, as well as being
    a kick in the teeth to British motor manufactures.....this kind of
    thing should be stopped at once.
    
    
    
    

    
    Well that isn't stricly true is it? 
    
    I understand it's her own car, paid for from funds from the Duchy of 
    Cornwall's estate - Not from the state payments.
    
    Of course, you may disagree with mass land ownership and the like, but
    that's a different matter.
    
    At present, the Royals HAVE to have 'British' official cars, like the
    Government, although quite what constitutes a British car these days
    seems a bit grey. After all Jags profits go home to Detroit, but I
    doubt we'll see John Major jumping out of a Peugeot or a Nissan made
    in Britain in the near future.
    
    Mark

RE:                      <<< Note 1690.2 by IRNBRU::WILSON >>>
�                                -< Not right! >-
    
�    Personally, I think it is a total and utter disgrace, as well as being
�    a kick in the teeth to British motor manufactures.....this kind of
�    thing should be stopped at once.
    
    You're quite entitled to your opinion of course, but there is a good
    argument that this kind of attitude produces the protectionism that
    helped the British car industry commit world-wide suicide years ago. If
    the British car industry doesn't produce the goods required by a free
    market, why should that stop people from looking outside to satisfy
    their needs.
       
    Why should Lady Diana be forbidden those same rights to a free market
    that the rest of us enjoy? Quite frankly, this might just jolt the
    British car industry out of its torpor. However, I doubt it, it'll
    probabkly just bleat about how "unfair" it is that Lady Diana has given
    everyone such a terrible example, and carry on blaming everyone else
    for its troubles.
    
    Laurie.
    
    PS. Mark is quite correct. Besides which, Lady Diana is a millionairess
        in her own right.
    
    
    
    

    Who really cares What car Princess Diana drives.  It is her choice &
    her money.
    
    
    Grant

    I wish people did not have such a short memory , you will remember Prince
    charles got slated for driving around in his nice new unleaded Bentley.
    You can't get more british than Bentley. I know the issue was with the
    fuel consumption, but if I have the loot , I for one would not be down
    to the nearest Leyland dealer to buy a metro , because it is more fuel
    efficent. Any case , I doult that the Bently was any worse/better fuel
    consumption than the Jaguar XJSC that Diana or Fergie drive. Sounds
    like a case of double standards, You can't be a member of the royal
    family and buy non british quality cars but on the other hand you can't
    buy british quality that uses lots of fuel.
    
    
    

Nobody seems to get upset when foreign notables buy Rolls-Royces....


If the British motor industry (and the rest of us) can't learn to compete in
a free market, then we're all going to go back to hiding in our little
protectionist burrows until somebody fills them in on top of us.

Ian

Re: .8

>    Somehow, I can't imagine the French or German PM driving a Jaguar
>    rag-top.

Exactly, because they no longer are the cars they used to be!!!!!!

    Maybe Lady Di is not so "un-nationalistic"
    
    The UK is in the European Common Market, and the Merc is a fine 
    European car.
    
    ...Also, did the Winsor family not come from Germany a long time ago ?
    
    Stop thinking British, think European.
    
    Paul

    
    Pardon me for not thinking European........ 
    
    Of course I should have said that Di's Mercedes is a fine European car, 
    and that us Europeans all living in Europe together as one big happy 
    family, eat European food, buy European clothes, fly on European 
    airlines, go on European holidays, and generally think that anything
    European must be jolly good for Britain too!
    
    
    
    
       

     

    
    Unless your in France, where you dont want any of those European cars
    made in England, cos thier partnered with japenese as apposed to french
    manufactureers.

    I read a financial report the other day, that stated that the
    protectionism and governmental support that the French car
    manufacturers had enjoyed, had wreaked its magic. Both Renault, and
    Citr�en, are in much the same position that Leyland was in 10 years
    ago. There is a difference though, and that is that the world and
    European markets have changed. One or both of these two may well
    disappear in the next 5-10 years, with much wailing and gnashing of
    French teeth, and much blaming of the more efficient car manufaturers,
    in particular Britain, with much finger-pointing at alliances with the
    Japanese.
    
    Laurie.
    
    PS. Captain Grammar will be sending his medical bill to the author of
        .11
    
    Laurie.

    And just for the record, this is not the first non-british car the
    Royals have owned, privately or publically funded.
    
    They have had Fords, some of which were manufactured outside the UK.
    
    Shock. Horror. Yawn.
    
    JK

>    And just for the record, this is not the first non-british car the
>    Royals have owned, privately or publically funded.
    
 

	They don't own it, its leased!


	Heather

>>    And just for the record, this is not the first non-british car the
>>    Royals have owned, privately or publically funded.
>    
> 
>	They don't own it, its leased!

In that case, what was in accurate about the original statement ??

    I know my note will provoke anger among the many British "die-hard
    loyals". However, I think it's worth my while to say something after
    reading the many replies here.
    
    I'm not a British, not a European and not a Japanese(you'll know where
    I come from at the end of this reply) but I think over
    the years the British had been living in their own paradign by choosing
    to ignore other products simply because they think products other than
    theirs are not superior and advocate the attitude of buy British.
    However, history had shown that such an attitude would not bring
    prosper to their own companies but instead kill them. You've seen the
    demise of several proud British firms. British
    motorcycles were once very popular(Norton, Triumph, etc) until eroded 
    completely by the Japanese who saw great opportunities to sell small and 
    affordable motocycles. Because of the popular support of the ardent British,
    companies become less competitive and less product innovative because
    they know British products would sell until they realize they no
    longer were in competition. The Jag may be a damn good car but the
    company isn't in the best shape financially, compared to a Merc or BMW 
    which sell fine quality cars. In the end, it's the strength of the 
    company that matters, that survives, that brings economy and well being
    to the people.
    
    Open free market is always good because it helps "wakes" you up,
    shifts your paradign and makes you more competitive. If Japanese had
    not landed in UK, Rover would not have improved. Had it not been the
    Japanese, the Americans wouldn't have woken up to improve their car
    quality and productivity.
    
    Lady Di bought a Merc simply because it's a good car, that's all. Perhaps 
    she thinks it's better than a Jag (You British may not agree!)! People are 
    looking for good affordable products regardless of where they come from. 
    When a product is good, even the most loyal citizen would find it hard to
    resist the temptation not to buy. Let's not be a protectionist!
    
    I come from Malaysia, maker of Proton car which won the award "Best
    value for money". Not bad for a country which first ventured into auto
    and managed to do well in UK, don't you agree? I know its car is no
    where compared with Jaguar but it's the sales and money that finally
    count; they sell and British buy them-we achieved the objective!
    
    	TTH
    
    Japanese 

	Ok, I'll bite.  I am an advocate of Adam Smith's call for free trade.
	However, we do not have free trade.  There are all sorts of trade
	limitations going on; the French and the Japanese are two very good 
	examples.  As for trade fast or die, it really depends on your view of
	progress.  In the UK, we're really hung up about the growth rate of
	our economy.  What such figures do not measure is our effect on our
	environment and each other.  Personally, I'd favour the approach 
	where things are made that can be repaired rather than thrown away.
	Much better for the environment, much better for us.

	As for any member of the Royal family, they can all fall off the 
	nearest available cliff (or piste) and I wouldn't care less.  This 
	smacks of the British obsession with class.

	Dave

    Well, actually there's no "total" free trade in this world. There's
    always some form of protectionist sentiment in every country. But it'd
    better be very "mild"! and small. Have you heard of the 3/4 tank rule
    in Singapore? It means that that Singapore cars entering Malaysia will
    have their gas tanks at 3/4 mark or risk being fined $500. The
    government is protecting the gasoline trade in Singapore. Gasoline 
    costs 1/2 per liter over in Malaysia than in Singapore and it's only
    1/2 an hour from Singapore to Malaysia. As you can see, it's some form
    of protectionism but it's rather "small" and insignificant!
    
    Malaysia achieved growth rate of 10% and more for the past two years
    and is projected to be around 8.5% this year with some form, of
    protectionism, only some. Can you protect your own trade and yet prosper? 
    Kind of difficult, huh!
    
    	TTH
    

    Has anyone yet mentioned just how many of these "British cars" are
    actually still british.
    
    Correct me if I'm wrong but don't GM & FORD own the likes of Jaguar
    and Aston Martin.
    
    Apparently Rolls Royce is up for grabs at the moment too. What's the
    probability of that staying in British hands ??

    Aston martin, Jaguar and Lagonda all belong to FORD. As you say so much
    for british. 

    Has any of the true Brit company own or acquire any foreign one? Can't
    think of any...
    
    TTH 

    May be "Great Britain" is now no longer great! Just call Britain!
    
    

    Re .22
    
    Cheeky bloody foreigner. Just watch out, or we'll send a gunboat...
    
    JJ.

    
    Now, now JJ. Nice Mr Major's in charge now and he doesn't mind
    foreigners slagging us off! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    re:.22
    
    Great Britain is the name of the island containing the countries
    England, Scotland and Wales.
    
    It is NOT a vainglorious reference to our national power and
    achievements.
    
    And, of course the inernationally recognisednation is the United
    Kingom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
    
    M H.
    

>>         <<< Note 1690.19 by BAHTAT::FRANZ "Chris Franz, Leeds, UK" >>>
>>    
>>   Apparently Rolls Royce is up for grabs at the moment too. What's the
>>   probability of that staying in British hands ??
    
    
    Very high I would have thought, for legal reasons.  Apparently the
    "R-R" trademark has to remain in British hands.  However doesn't apply
    to Bentley.
    
    Stevie.

    
    The RR make is owned by Vickers, the name is owned by Rolls Royce (as
    in Aero engine makers ) they cannot sell the car division without
    getting an agreement from RR, ( which I guess means money ).
    

    Ref .23, .24
    
    Hey, cool it! Just cool it! It's just an observation that "some" Brits
    who work here are somewhat a sn*b! Don't get mad, I say just some
    observation.
    
    However, .25 reply is quite tactful!
    
    TTH

    
    Err, I wrote .24, but I don't see a need to cool it (That would suggest
    I was hot :^)). Equally I suspect .23 was written in good humour,
    although...
    
    Mark

    ref -.1,
    
    although... what?
    
    TTH

    Re .29,30
    
    Although you never know where I'm concerned eh Mark?
    
    ;-)

    
    Precisely!
    
    Mark 

Returning to the original question....

A small subplot indicates that the Royal families own favourite Jaguar 
salesman (Eton, Guards, Car Sales etc....) has been declared surplus to 
requirements by Jaguar and that, although Diana has lusted after .. at 
least.. the Merc. for a while, the opportunity to stick a short sharpened 
object into Jaguar management probably had its attractions.

On the original note I have managed to move from a position of pro- to 
passive- to moderate anti- on the Royal Family front in about ten years, 
largely due to the attitudes of the younger members. (Except Charles and 
Anne) 

Whatever was there in terms of values is fast becoming pure Soap.

	I'm sure that Princess Di bought that Merc because it was "in",
or "O-K-Yah", or whatever the current phrase is, not because it is
German or well made. Do you remember many years ago, after Prince Charles
was invested as Prince of Wales, he was pressured into replacing
his Aston with one of those Welsh Sports Cars? What was it, a Reliant(?)
or a TVR(?). But he didn't...Tum-te-tum....

RE: -.1

Was it a Gilbern Invader - that's the only Welsh sports car that I can think of
(I think that they existed until the mid '70s)?

    Or a Davrian / Darrian ?
    
    J.R.

	That's it, a Gilbern...Not quite in the same class as an
Aston...