Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    Sorry, Gary, on consulting my Calibra handbook I noticed a clause which
    expressly forbids the fitting of Baby am Bord (or relevant quote in any
    language) signs/stickers to such cars. Apparently it leads to manic
    drivers feeling that they have to punt you off the road for assuming
    they would do so anyway! :^)
    
    Mark
    
    PS Seriously I'd imagine the Calibra would be fine with a baby chucking
    up in the back,
    
    After all the parcel shelf and rear seats are both thick enough to mask
    the sound pretty effectively! :^)

    
    I personally would forget the sticker, they encourage other drivers to
    get as close as possible to your rear end just to read the message.
    
    At one time the "Baby on board" sign was pretty unique and universal
    i.e. orange diamond with strangely enough baby on board written in it.
    However I have seen on sale in the shops (I tend to ignore cars with
    sickers in them) using the same format with "humorous" quotes. My
    favourite is "Mother-in-law in the boot".
    
    As for cars get a four door model. It is a lot easy getting a child
    in and out, especially if you opt for the type of baby seat which is
    secured by the seat belts. On this point I went for a permanently
    fitted one which fastens to the set belt mounting holes.
    
    Congratulations on your new arrival (Baby not car).
    
    Chris.
    
    P.S. I've forgotten which note this is but it concerns car safety.
    
         Lynne Faulds (I'm sure this middle bit used to be slightly more
         obscene) Wood should be locked in a padded cell for her own safety
         You never know with all the dangerous cars about one of those well
         made German jobs may just fall on her head.
    
    
    to the seat belt mounting 

    As said in .2, get a 4/5 door car or get a bad back, hernia, strained
    ankle etc. The human body was never designed to lift carrycots through
    the front-door opening & place them at arms length on the rear seat.
    Good Luck !
    
    
    	Tony. 

RE:                     <<< Note 1620.2 by PLAYER::WINPENNY >>>

�    However I have seen on sale in the shops (I tend to ignore cars with
�    sickers in them) 

    Chris, is this a baby sicker, or just any old sicker?

    On a more serious note, 4 doors definitely, preferably a small estate.
    The back doors for access initially with carry cots etc., later for
    putting little ones in and out of baby seats, which I feel shouldn't be
    in the front, and later still, they're more convenient for letting the
    children in and out. The estate part because there is a lot of
    paraphernalia involved with babies, and you never know when you need
    somewhere to stow the buggy, travel cot, quilts etc. etc. all at once.A
    hatchback will do the trick, but an estate is more versatile.

    As far as cars are concerned, I've tried loads with varying degrees of
    success. Whilst the children were small, and fewer in number, our
    5-door 1.6 GL Escort Estate was the cat's pyjamas. Now it's too small,
    and the Granada fits the bill, but in its day, it was great. 82000
    miles on, I still use it, doing about 500 miles a week, and it's never
    let me down.

    Laurie.

    Does anyone actually believe that the "Baby on Board" stickers
    ever made the slightest bit of difference to other drivers who
    read it? Cos I for one don't. Mind you they're probably harmless
    which is more than you can say for those idiotic "If you can read
    this you're too close" stickers which are only readable at distances
    of less than 4 feet...
    
    JJ.

    Friends of mine who have had both 2 and 4 door cars told me that they
    prefer 2 doors, although they have toddlers in "Child-seats" not babies
    in Carry-cots  - Apparently they find it easier to step in through the
    (larger) door opening in a 2-door and undo/remove said sprog while facing 
    them, rather than trying to achieve the same thing from the side using
    the rear doors in a 4-door.  Does this make any sense ? 
    
    .Stevie. 
    - Who's not actually a parent himself as - as far as he knows :-)

    We've had both, and we prefer 4 doors...
    
    Laurie.

    	Go for a car with plenty of leg room in the back. I have a Ford
    Orion and I have to drive with the driving seat right back to achieve a
    comfortable driving position, well with the Toddler and Baby in their
    car seats I get continuously Kicked in the back by the playfull souls.
    
    	I also find that the cloth trim on the back of the forward seats
    gets all manner of MUCK plastered on it. I would suggest that a Fiat
    Tipo is one of the best "Family" cars about for room but its not very
    exciting.
    
    Dave.

    
    RE: .4
    
    Laurie,
    
    Baby sickers in my car are forgiven in other cars I have a good laugh
    
    Other sickers in my car are pushed out of the door in other cars I have
    a good laugh.
    
    
    RE: .5
    
    JJ,
    
    "Baby on board" stickers [sp. :^)] are at best ignored. The "idiotic"
    ones encourage others to drive closer.
    
    Sensible suggestion: Why not have an official sticker. Like for
    disabled drivers. Also having parking places with wider lines. Getting
    a child through a half opened door is no joke. I would imagine this
    is even more difficult in a two door.
    
    Chris.

    
    Oh no!
    
    Suggesting that people with kids are actually GIVEN preferential
    treatment!!! Just imagine how awful they'll be! A lot of people with
    kids feels the road, the pavement, the shops, etc, etc belong to them!
    (Obviously not all applicable while driving...Oh, I don't know. :^)).
    
    Mark

    
    Just seen .8
    
    I too have a Ford Orion and drive with the seat fully back and somewhat
    reclined (almost horizontal). I never had your problem.
    
    On the plus side the Orion's boot is *BIG*. For the size of car, small
    family saloon, I believe it is the largest in it's class.
    
    I'm an expert on boots not wanting to buy an estate. The Orion boot is
    believe it or not larger than the Sierra, BMW 3 series and quite a few
    more. If I remember correctly larger as a large as a Granada and BMW 5
    series.
    
    Chris.

    
    Preferential treatment for children. Let's extend this. Free parking
    in Mothercare. Priority on public roads and pedestrianized areas. The
    right to drive legally with foot fully on the accelerator while at the
    same time trying to prize the nodding dog out of juniors jaw. Although
    I recommend stopping to attempt this as without a twelve foot jimmy
    it is nearly impossible.
    
    Over in Belgium people get child benefit, not unusual, but people
    without children are penalised. Also DIGITAL employees with children
    I have been informed get a christmas bonus.
    
    Chris.
    

    
    In China people with more than one child are stoned to death (well, ok,
    that's a SLIGHT exageration, but they're not popular!) :^)
    
    I feel this is a very enlightened approach! (It probably also explains
    why there are more Belgians than Chinese!).
    
    Mark

    
    Sounds like I should go out and get someone pregnant so I can get a
    Chrisy Bonus!!
    
    I think everyone with children should be forced to drive round in
    Volvo's, just to teach 'em!?
    
    On a serious note, the one thing that really bugs me is kids sitting up
    in the back of the car and loking out the back!!  Firstly it's puts you
    off your driving and your more likely to crash into them, and secondly
    it's supposed to be illegal!
    
    Matt.
    

    
    Matt,
    
    No need to do something that drastic. Just borrow somebody elses for
    a couple of hours while your filling in the tax form. It's been done
    before.
    
    Chris.
    

    � Over in Belgium people get child benefit, not unusual, but people
    � without children are penalised. Also DIGITAL employees with children
    
    I don't believe I read this... in an already overcrowded continent on
    a grossly overpopulated planet the Belgian state is penalising people
    for NOT having children??? Come to think of it as its Belgium I do
    believe it...
    
    JJ.

    
    Nah I'll give it a miss thanks, much as I love little kids, I'm a
    little young to get away with that.  Saying that I'm 20 so I suppose
    it's possible........
    
    To get back to the point the best cars for the time when you have small
    children are two door cars, they mat be more difficult to get yer kids
    in and out of, but there's absolutely no way your children can get out
    of the car via any doors.
    
    So buy your wife a Mini, you know the old proverb:-
    
    	"Plush Wife + Reasonable Motor = Death Trap"
    
    Matt.

    wHILE THE KIDS ARE TOO SMALL TO CLIMB THEMSELVES (UNDER 2??) Then a 4
    door car is best....
    
    After that a 2 door car is best - prevents them opening the doors and
    falling out!
    
    Once they are about 7 or 8, then back to a 4 door car... 
    
    Once they are 17 and driving themselves - then any car - 'cos you won't
    get a look in!
    
    (sORRY About the typing - PC's!!)
    

	In my experience a 4 door is best, you use kiddie-locks on the back
	ones to prevent them getting out without you opening the door from
	the outside.  My wife's car (and her previous n cars) is a Cavalier
	SRi.  That can accomodate the travel cot, push chair, high chair etc
	and have room spare.  It's harder work getting my two kids in and
	out of the back of the Marlin, but it's not too bad.

	As for stickers, aren't people just boasting that they're not
	infertile?

	Dave

I had a two door Fiasco for three weeks after our baby arrived and it was 
totally imprctical. I was able to swap ( some kind soul took over my lease) the 
Fiasco for a Cavalier, much more practical takes all the equipment and still has 
room in the boot; and my other half does'nt have to clamber out of the back all 
of the time.

S.

    �( some kind soul took over my lease)
    
    I don't know about kind soul soul, more like lucky b*gg*r :-)
    
    Plenty of folk were interested in your RS Shaz, with ABS for 0 cost
    considering the quotes that are coming in now.
    
    Roy

    Gary,
    	Use the Porsche, flop the top down, lob kid in, put top up, no bad
    back, no worries.
    
    		Chris.

	You're right, getting the kids in the back with the top down 
	is very easy...

Ahhh Gi'day...�

      Get a "baby am bord" sticker Garry, and I'll kick your doors in.

    Dennis,
    		I'll help ya !

    
    
    	Pah, first you'll have to catch me ;-) and in your rust bucket 
    Den, even with 4 wheel drive you'll have problems. The seats in the
    back of the porsche are ideal for little kids, just stuff them in.
    but with the roof done I'll have to stick the baby on board sticker on
    the back of its head, perhaps some kind lady (or gent) could knit me a
    baby bonnet with a "Baby on board" pattern on the back.
    
    Anyway seems 4 doors are best, I'm tempted by something big , maybe
    Range Rover or Grandad/Merc 230. Audi's are out because of a lack of
    boot space. Now anyone got any recomendations on BIG cars.
    
    After the car i'll have to start o think about prams, 2/4 wheel drive
    2/4 wheel steering, drop top or hard estate version or sports buggy 
    I think its easier to choose cars ;-)
    
    
    

re.27:

We've tried our baby seat in a Range Rover (Hi JJ!) and it's a long way up, so
whether it's a good idea or not depends on your stature!

/Dave.

    
    What about a Marcos Mantula Spyder? I've seen a Marcos with a baby
    seat bolted into the gap between the seats! :^)
    
    Mark

    Re .28
    
    Yes, when *are* you going to clean that seat??? ;-)
    
    JJ.

Ahhh Gi'day...�

    With this snow, Garry, I'll catch you on that first roundabout :-)

    
    I looked at a Merc 200D saloon and estate at the weekend, they are HUGE,
    and over here really cheap 28,000 DM for a one year old with 20k km.
    Only problem was Lena couldn't see over the steering wheel and it isn't
    going to be easy to park over here.
    
    As for Mantula's etc, I think it might be easier with a Honda cbx and
    sidecar.
    

Ahhh Gi'day...�

			 Get a Passat station wagon.