Conference terri::cars_uk

    Stephen,
    
    	I'm glad your OK. Vauxhall do seem to make pretty safe cars, a
    friend of mine crashed her Nova on the A33 recently. It go a lot
    shorter but the passenger cell was intact ! Amazing for such a small
    car.
    
    		Rik

When I had an Astra GTE I was hit by a Volvo and survived.

/Dave :-)

    
    
�    accident in..... apparently Astras are the third safest cars on the
�    road after big Volvos and Saabs.

    Not according to tests carried out by ADAC (German AA) and the UK Road 
    Research Laboratory.
    
    The 1,2,3 was BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Below this not one car tested
    rated better than "occupants likely to suffer serious injury" at 
    30 mph offset frontal impact, and a large number including some
    expensive hardware were rated "likely death".
    
    Not a nice thought.
    

On top gear a while ago, a German magazine crash tested a number of
cars and found Saab to be the safest in it's class. In the small car range
the Vauxhall Nova (Opel whatever) was safest. Volvo didn't do particularly
well. 



Ian

    I've also seen mention of the Fiesta being the safest car in it's
    class.  These views do vary, as the angle of impact is vital.  The
    tests where BMW came out top were trying to simulate hitting a tree
    with the drivers side of the front of the car.  There were comments
    that some of the cars in the tests were built for full frontal impacts
    only.
    
    Then of course we get into side impacts, I guess the safest vehicle is
    really hard to access.  Vehicles I would not want to be in a prang in is
    probably easier define.

    re:last
    
    Bit of a rat-hole, but go on then, Clive !
    
    Colin

>    Bit of a rat-hole, but go on then, Clive !
    
    Ok, if you insist.  Accidents I have seen and disscusions I've had with
    a friend who a traffic cop (if that's not a contradiction in terms!)
    leave me with the impression that the Peugeot 205 is not very sturdy. 
    
    Terms like, "disintegrate on impact" come to mind.  It may be that
    there are other cars as bad, or worse - but the 205 is a very popular
    car in Europe, so a lot of people  could be affected.  I'm told it
    couldn't get through US crash regs, but can't substantiate this (most
    cars need mods, but these weren't viable).
    
    Significant damage from comparatively minor accidents is actually
    desirable as long as the saftey cell isn't damaged - the crumple zones
    absort the impact.
     
    A car can be light and strong, though it no doubt requires less effort
    to to design a heavy strong car.  My concerns are not necessarily with
    hot hatch versions, as the German tests show, a 30 mph accident can
    easily prove fatal.

    .3�    Not according to tests carried out by ADAC (German AA) and the UK Road 
    .3�    Research Laboratory.
    
    In another test done by German T�V sponsored by a local auto magazine
    (discussed somewhere else in this conference) the swedish cars did not
    score very well either. The Volvo 7XX is basically too rigid (all g's
    are realyed to the passengers) and the SAAB (using the common
    FIAT Croma/LANCIA Thema/ALFA 164/SAAB design) is disastrous.
    
    Safety is one thing, advertisement is another. A Volvo/SAAB is probably 
    safe when parked. 

    ANY car is safe-ish when parked. It could still roll down hill and kill
    someone if you left the handbrake insecure.....
    
    As one who has survived a **BAD** shunt in a SAAB 900 and seen what
    happened to the other car (a Mk II Granada) with my own vehicle driven
    to the garage, my perception is that the SAAB is a car the I would
    undoubtedly label as a car I would want to be in in a crash, given the
    need to be in a car in a crash. I would prefer not to be in a car in a
    crash........ but sometimes life gets out of the immediate control of
    the combatants.
    
    

    I remember seeing two BMWs (an M3 and a 5 series) have a front side 
    impact with each other and the drivers both hopped straight out, but
    then again the way in which the M3 was being driven made the accident
    inevitable, so does that make it safe or not?
    
    Mark 

	Well, after being rear-ended when we were doing about 15mpg, and the 
	other car about 60-70, I can say that our kitcar is much safer than
	Orions.

	The damage on our car was minor, and we could drive on our way. The fix
	was a new vallence, some paint, and a new tyre. �1000 in total, of 
	which �500 was for the wheel and tyre.

	The Orion was badly knocked about. The front was dented so badly, the
	bonnet wouldn't close. There was lots of steam everywhere.
	The rightside had buckled, so it was impossible to open the door on 
	the drivers side.
	They were both much more shaken than us - and we had an open top with 
	no roll-bar!
	�4000 repair bill and had to be towed away.

	Heather		

>	Well, after being rear-ended when we were doing about 15mpg, and the 
>	other car about 60-70, I can say that our kitcar is much safer than
>	Orions.

Safer, but not cheaper!!!   15 MPG indeed!


Jc    ;-)

>Safer, but not cheaper!!!   15 MPG indeed!



	Opps, a slip of the fingers, however, 15MPG was about right when 
	taking the 3.5 V8 around the race track ............


	Heather

 Judging by what my brother did to my mums mk1 Astra recently, I would say
that it is a safe car. Still, I will feel safer when I get the full cage in my
car !!

	 	 Alan
		~~~~~~

    The Astra is, according to various reports I've seen, the "safest" car
    in its class.
    
    The sources that I can remember are Which? Magazine, Some TV prog (Top
    Gear I think) and some German Magazine report.
    
    
    John
    
    PS Glad you are alright after the prang.

    
    What's safe about a car that crashes?
    
    Mark

    I read in a mag that VOLVO have been cheating in their
    ads in the States.
    
    They showed a mega-truck driving over a line of various
    cars flattening all of them except the VOLVO.
    But during an investigation into the ad it was admitted
    that the VOLVO had been strenghtened while the other
    cars had been weakened.  VOLVO deny they knew this.
    
    Now it is suggested that an ad showing a stack of VOLVOs
    which showed in UK was rigged with some supporting frame!
    
    Makes you wonder what you can believe in ads, reports etc.
    

    You mean you believe ANYTHING in an ad? Sounds about as sensible as
    trusting a politician......but then I'm know to be a mite cynical about
    such things.

    What about the ad that has this BMW suspended on its door hinges.
    Is that REALLY possible on a standard car ?
    
    - Roy

    Re .19
    
    Yes I believe this.
    
    I also think that any car carefully suspended by all four doors would
    resist failure as long as the BMW did.
    
    Its back to the ads showing Volvos falling out of first floor windows;
    the resistance to damage is no more than is required by law.
    
    Much more interesting weas the German magazine which piled 8 Executive
    type saloons into a conmcrete block, and saw who would have survived.
    The Volvo driver would, but in less good nick (from memory)than the BMW
    driver. The Fiat and Renault drivers needed discount on wooden boxes.
    
    Typos excepted - not seeing too straight.
    
    Steve

    Yep
    
    The article I read stated that VOLVO (US) admitted to "staging" the
    advert.
    
    They fitted "cages" to the cars to avoid them being squashed by the
    monster truck.
    
    However another article said that the Volvo's were standard but the
    other cars had their roof pillars partially cut so that they crumpled
    nicely. 
    
    Who buys a car to let a "monster truck" drive over it anyway ??

    RE Squashed Volvo
     I believe the final outcome was that Volvo paid a fine to the Texas
    (?) State Attorney-Generals Office and stopped running the ad.
    The AD agency admitted to reenforcing the Volvo roof and cutting the
    pillars on the other cars. The sad thing is, is that the inspiration for
    the ad was an actual case at a Monster Truck show, where a Volvo did
    stand up to being driven over. I guess a "staged" reenactment of an 
    event is hard to do honestly :-)
    
    Barry