Conference terri::cars_uk

    Yes but the other cars are stationery and they have no people in them
    

 >   Yes but the other cars are stationery and they have no people in them
    
    I didn't notice whether the cars were empty, my eyes followed the Nova
    (as intended, I suspect).  I'm with Ian on this, it sets a very bad
    example.

    How about [Austin-] Rover showing how to use the handbrake to park
    in small gaps, or to save the hassle of a three-point turn ?
    
    Or even putting a (modified) car on two wheels !
    
    J.R.

    
    Re the Nova ad :
    
    Next time you watch it, check out the age of some of the cars in the
    lane hopping scene .... ancient!  Must have been a long traffic jam.
    
    Graham Warnes

    
    
    I think it's just an ad!!
    
    I would hope people are not this impressionable!
    
    however I do know that the film "Die Hard 2" couldn't be called
    just "Die Harder" because research found that a "percentage of the
    population couldn't make the link between that and "Die Hard" (1)
    
    Kind of worrying ain't it!
    
    David

    I think the ad portrays a piece of conscientious driving.
    It shows the driver moving into the left hand lane in good time for the
    exit!  :-)
    
    If only more drivers were like him!........
    
    Huw.

    Come on, lighten up!  Its an ad!
    
    Vauxhall have always advertised the Nova in an inovative way, remember
    the building site to the tune of La Bamba?
    
    The new advert is ammusing and lacks the boring old facts in advers from
    Proton, for example.  Its fun to watch.  I am rather concerned about the
    suspension though!
    
    Rob (who is married to a Nova driver who is living proof of once
    driven forever smitten)
    
    
    
                              

    
    I agree its an ad
    
    I agree its quite amusing
    
    but...
    
    car adverts have been heavily panned for mentioning top speeds and
    acceleration figures "because they promote bad or illegal driving". My
    point is that this Vauxhall ad *similarly* promotes bad or illegal
    driving. 
    
    They could have been humourous with the car that looked for cyclists,
    squeezed through gaps and snapped at the postman: they didn't need to
    include the lane hopping sequence with the voice over about it being a
    nippy little car that avoids traffic jams (if that's what you want buy
    a bike).
    
    /. Ian .\

Oh, come on !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd like to see any car try the trick of "tip-toeing" sideways into a gap 
immediately to your left...

I know for definite the Nova can't do it :-)

A prototype invalid carriage a few years a go had a complex set of rollers on
the wheels which allowed it to move sideways...

Maybe Vauxhall have bought the rights to this system ;-)

Scott

changed our name have we Scott ???

...art

I rented a Nova 1.4 SR when we were over there during the Christmas/New Year
break and I was IMPRESSED.  It took 4 of us (smallest was 5'5") and all our
luggage in comfort all over the place.  Even carried five for one day without
too much of a problem.  We covered 1600 miles in a week and averaged 45 mpg
and didn't hang about at all.  It was a VERY nippy car and VERY comfortable
to drive.  I would buy one .... irrespective of advertising (which I haven't
seen, btw).

Brian

    All the comments about "lightening up" rather miss the point that
    advertsing people understand well.  People are very impressionable, if
    we coldly analyse the ad, we are unlikely to be effected.  Those who
    have casually watched the ad, perhaps whilst forming their early
    attitudes towards driving, may well have their "experience base"
    modified.
    
    Advertising is serious business, we shouldn't trivialise it's effects.

    My non-analytical reaction to the ad was that if that was the
    stereotype Vauxhall have in mind for the Nova, the car must only be for
    airheads.
    
    Steve

    There's one way to check this.....
    
    	Everboby keep your eyes peeled for new Novas. If you see one
    	watch it like a hawk. If it moves sideways at an alarming rate of
    	knots we know that the ad has had some infulence.
    
    	If at  the end of a month no one has witnessed this phenomenon
    	I think we can safely assume that no one has taken the advert
    	too seriously, unlike this note !!

    
>    	Everboby keep your eyes peeled for new Novas. If you see one
>    	watch it like a hawk. If it moves sideways at an alarming rate of
>    	knots we know that the ad has had some infulence.
    
Just as well you didn't spot my manoeuvre on the M4 a while back...

I was avoiding a scaffolding pole being bounced off the back of the flatbed
lorry I was following....

Just as well the outer 2 lanes were empty :-)

If what is said here is true, then we should also stop:

a) The Volvo advert as it incourages you to drive your car out of windows

b) The Pugeout one - incourages you to start fires

c) Audi one - encourages you to crash

d) The old Nova one - encouraged you to drive round building sites



etc etc

;^)))))))


Greg

>If what is said here is true, then we should also stop:
>
>a) The Volvo advert as it incourages you to drive your car out of windows
>b) The Pugeout one - incourages you to start fires
>c) Audi one - encourages you to crash
>d) The old Nova one - encouraged you to drive round building sites
    
    Each advert needs assessing on whether the "interesting" behaviour is
    so obviously wrong that it is seen purely in the context of
    advertising.  You may think this is pedantic.  Don't forget, SUN
    readers may be capable of switching on a TV.
    
    I appreciate that those of you who regard the anti-Nova advert comments 
    as stuffy or whatever, probably have a high regard for your own
    ability to ensure you are not misled.  The point at which fact can be
    distinguished from fantasy differs from person to person.  The issue
    is, where does this point lie for the good old British public.   
                                 

    Considering the number of people who knit matinee jackets for babies
    due on the TV soaps, some people live only in fantasy.
    
    Steve

	You forgot, the Ford advert for Sierra's encourages you in the belief
	that you're driving a GT 40...

>	You forgot, the Ford advert for Sierra's encourages you in the belief
>	that you're driving a GT 40...


And then some idiot actually believes this and gets into a situation with their
Sierra that a GT40 could get our of, but a Sierra????  Result - real problems!

Yes, there are gullible people (my sister-in-law is an ad-man's dream).  Maybe
that's why such adverts are not allowed in many countries where product and
manufacturer liability laws are more extreme than the UK?  It's misleading, but
unless there's enough groundswell to change it, or drivers really *don't* want
to feel like they want a GT40, nothing will change, and the extremes will
become more so.

�And then some idiot actually believes this and gets into a situation with their
�Sierra that a GT40 could get our of, but a Sierra????  Result - real problems!
    
    But a Sierra isn't capable of getting into the sort of situation that
    a GT40 could cope with.

    I bet I could get round this Rat-hole in my Sierra faster than you
    could in a GT40...
    
    Your comments will really upset the Snail if it ever hears about
    them...

    On Saturday in Ayr: a Ford Sierra with a ............................. 
    
    
    
    Ferrari badge on the trunk!!!
    
    Some mothers do 'ave 'm!!!
    
    Cheers,
    Flying Dutchman
    

    I see that VW have resurrected the ad for the golf.,
    You know, the one with the dead girl with the squeaky earring :-)
     
    - Roy

    As we have moved on to ads in general...
     The ad I want to see is a Vauxhall one for the Calibra - where the
    camera focuses on the sleek looks of the car, and the bloke who is
    admiring it (you know, like that Rover GTi one)... then the bloke
    touches the car, and the alarm goes off.....
    
    Then the letters appear on the screen - "The alarm IS standard
    equipment".

    I like it Chris. That would be a corker. :-)
    
    As I said in an earlier note somewhere, don't you think that 
    the Rover ad is ridiculous in as much that the viewer probably remembers
    it because of the alarm rather than the car. Then to have a disclaimer
    saying that its not standard, perhaps the marketing boys thought
    it did have an alarm so they had to have the sub-title as an
    afterthought.
                         
    - Roy

    I don't think I'd want the alarm as standard - it goes off at the
    slightest touch!!
    
    Ian.

    Only in adverts!

    
    rathole - Now so many cars have alarms, and so many seem to go 'off' 
    accidentally, no-one seems to take any notice of them!  I don't really
    see that there is a great benefit in having one. (I know about the
    people who say that it 'saved' their car - but my Dad and I borrowed my
    sisters 'alarmed' car, and because neither of us knew what we were
    doing we managed to set it off five or six times in car parks, or by
    the side of the road, and NO-ONE took any notice at all - even when
    we'd got the bonnet up looking for an 'off' switch!)

    Maybe the passers by were not interested, but a would be thief may
    well be put off.
    
    I would say an alarmed car is DEFINATELY more secure than one without.
    
    - Roy (whose company car doesn't have one because he's blowed if he's
           going to pay the extra :-) )

    I agree with you about alarms being ignored - the only value I see for
    the alarm on my car is that I know what it sounds like and can usually
    hear it.  Of course if someone wants my car then they are probably
    going to get it - but there are many cars to take without alarms.
    
    Rob

no-one even looks out of the window to see which alarm is going off!

I must admit, tho advert certainly doesn't impress me; but there again,
we are all talking about it, so it has had some impact

5 years ago: "have you seen the new Austin; I wonder how often it
will break down"

Today: "have you seen the new Rover - I wonder if the alarm has been
fitted."

Mind you, I suppose you could get the morons checking every Rover 400 to see
if the alarm is fitted, and if not they rip off the radio.

Peter.

�    I would say an alarmed car is DEFINATELY more secure than one without.
    
    Speaking from experience, I can agree here.
    
    As far as I know, no-one has 'had a go' at my Lancia, which is parked
    on the drive outside my house.  If they did, I expect that I would hear
    the alarm and find out about it.
    
    On the other hand, my Manta had been parked just down the road a short
    distance one night, when some urchin decided that they wanted the stereo.
    
    Result, they broke the window glass (that's pretty large in a Manta),
    then removed the stereo unit.  I did not know until the next day.
    I was also informed that the people who lived in a house just across
    from the car did hear some 'breaking glass' at night and ignored it.
    Seems a shame that they did not take a bit more notice - it might have
    been their own car getting broken into...
    
    J.R.
    
    PS - I don't doubt that they would have ignored an alarm too,
         but I would have had much more chance of hearing that, if fitted.

    Re .31 
    Roy,
    You only pay for an alarm on your company car if you specify it
    on the request for quote form.   So; the thing to do is NOT ask for an
    alarm on the quote, but specify it on the order form.  
    
    Nige L. 

>>    <<< Note 1342.35 by NOT003::LOWEY "Has anyone told the customer yet?" >>>
>>                      -< See VTX Fleet News for details >-

>>    You only pay for an alarm on your company car if you specify it
>>    on the request for quote form.   So; the thing to do is NOT ask for an
>>    alarm on the quote, but specify it on the order form.  

    This is untrue and misleading:
    
    You only pay for an alarm (or anything else) if you request it ON THE
    ORDER FORM. You can only place an order against a quote thus you CANNOT
    order what you haven't asked for in a quote.
    
    On VTX it states that as many car's have alarms as standard so they
    will not order them, nor will they pay for them if it's not required by
    the company. 
    
    If you want an alarm and get a quote, check the alarm IS on it, and
    check that it DOES get ordered.
    
    Richard

	A flashing red LED on the dashboard, visible from outside ....


	... driven by a 555 i/c.  :-)


		Cheap and effective!

I have this thing in my car called an "Ungo Box" and any potential thief would
have no difficulty disabling the siren - they get 15 seconds to do so!  But it's
a deterrent, and that's what counts, even with the top down in summer. Mind you,
the crooklok (equivalent) fastened into it may help too!  And the radio *looks*
like a real old-fashioned unit that no-one would want.  Now THAT is what I call
a really neat anti-theft idea.  So realistic too.

Brian

> And the radio *looks*
> like a real old-fashioned unit that no-one would want.

Don't be too sure. I knew someone who had a radio that wasn't worth 10p
at a jumble sale - that got nicked!

On a good point, I was once sitting in a friends car, with the stereo
out, trying to fix it. A guy came up and challenged us as to was it our car etc etc


Greg

>>Don't be too sure. I knew someone who had a radio that wasn't worth 10p
>>at a jumble sale - that got nicked!

       It doesn't surprise me, I'm sure radio nicking is just a sport.
       What happens to them all?

       Ian.

re .39

Rumour has it that the foreign taxi firms around Leeds/Bradford
advertise in their language :- "Wanted Digital stereo's"

Greg

    Yes I've wondered about this for some time - where do all the stolen
    radios go to. Bearing in mind that most cars for the past 5 years or so
    come fitted with a radio cassette what do they do with a stolen radio,
    possibly coded, without box or instructions? 
    I've frequented some dubious pubs in my time but I've never seen anyone
    hawking radios boxed or otherwise, I've also seen radios on sale at
    car-boot sales but they were of the naff sort probably about 10 years 
    old - So where do they all go to? 

>>    This is untrue and misleading:
>>    
>>    You only pay for an alarm (or anything else) if you request it ON THE
>>    ORDER FORM. You can only place an order against a quote thus you CANNOT
>>    order what you haven't asked for in a quote.
  
    THIS is untrue and misleading.  An alarm is an exception to the above. 
    If your manager agrees that an alarm is justified, then it may be added
    to the order form without it being on the quote.  The cost centre then
    picks up the cost of the alarm.  The alarm is usually fitted by VSL
    before you take delivery of the car (mine wasn't and the radio was
    nicked first night on the drive).

re .42

I know 2 people who's managers wouldn't pay for alarms.

they have both since had wheels etc nicked from their cars and hence
digital are now paying for an alarm!!

Greg

�they have both since had wheels etc nicked from their cars and hence
    
    Out of interest, what 'make' were these cars ?
    
    J.R.

re .- a couple.

The fact that your radio is "coded" doesn't seem to deter the average thief
these days.    They'll rip it out anyway, then dump it later, if they're 
amateurs.   If they're not, they'll know how to deal with the coding, or sell
it on to somebody who does.

Ian

    I've heard that the code of a car stereo can be wiped by placing the
    complete unit in a freezer for a little while.  I don't suppose it does
    the stereo the world of good but apparently it does the job, and
    thieves are getting away with it.
    
    Russell.

    re: .47 
    Another one where this conference comes full circle!.
    
    This has been discussed in a former life in a former note somewhere
    deep within the bowels of this conference!.
    

     Sometime around 1am Saturday morning this weekend gone, a nice person was 
     trying to get into my VW Golf.  They succeeded.
     
     The alarm went off, and I got up and I looked out an upper window.
     Although my car has only given 3 false alarms due to the car being
     rocked by close running buses, I still assumed that it must be a
     false alarm.  I got up, looked briefly out the window seeing only
     my car roof and went back to bed.  After all the car was parked next to
     our semi-detached house in a long, well-lit street.
     
     On getting up Saturday morning, I found my car door wide open!
     
     The thief had forced something like a screwdriver up under the
     door handle/key lock.  This had bent the metal door skin away and
     allowed them to flick the lock mechanism into the unlocked state.
     
     They must have then immediately got in and attemted to turn the interior
     light off.  I have changed the switch on the light, so that if it is 
     turned to any position, the light will come on (this was for the case of 
     my sun roof being left open).  They must have fiddled for a second with 
     no success, then pulled the unit down and removed the bulb.
     
     This must have been up-to the 10 second entry delay, when the alarm went 
     off.  Luckily they must have run off without returning.
     
     Not even any tapes gone, my Ray-Ban Wayfarers still on the parcel shelf.
     My Kenwood Radio/Cassette, two under-seat amps and dash mounted tweeters
     un-touched.  There's a lot to be said about a discrete installation.
     
     I just hope that this person doesn't consider this a challenge and
     return for another match.  I think my self very lucky, I have just bent 
     the handle surround flat again and put some touch-up paint on the 
     scatched metalwork.
     
     Why do you think they didn't return to the wide open car after a few 
     hours?  Character analysis please.
     
     The worrying thing is that the car was 'broken' into without lock picking
     skills, without a sound.
     
     Robert.
     

p.s.  YES, I'll be out like a shot the next time I hear any alarm at night.

    
    Time to invest in some Baseball equipment methinks! :^)
    
    Mark

    re.49
     Robert,
     VW Rabbits,Dashers,Scirocco's and Euro Equivilants are notoriously
    easy to break into using the method you described. There are several
    products on the market, that place a shield/guard  around the door 
    handle, you'll find them advertised in the (US) VW enthusiasts
    magazines like Hot VW, Performance VW and Europeon Cars (was VW&
    Porsche) might find adverts in UK magazines too. This will not be
    as "satisfying" a solution as the baseball equipment method, but
    probably more effective :-)
    
    Regards
    Barry 

    Is there a ''Discussion Most Removed from its Basenote'' award? :-)
    
    Ian.