Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    Read the small print! Especially what is, or rather more importantly,
    what isn't covered by the guarantee - and for how long it is valid, 
    (1 year or X (very low number) of miles )  I believe some places let
    you get an AA/RAC inspection done (don't go anywhere that says you
    can't have someone else look at it!) Don't be fooled by a clean
    interior/ engine bay - look very carefully for external signs of abuse
    by previous owners. _Ask_ the garage if the car has ever been in an
    accident, if you don't ask they don't have to volunteer the info, but 
    they're not allowed to tell stories. If a repair is noticible to a 
    professional, then they should have spotted it. Negotiate the price -
    they want to sell more than you want to buy!
    
    I don't buy cars from garages, I'd rather buy cheaper and privately, 
    and trust my knowledge of cars as to what not to go for.  

     When looking for accident damage, check for paint on the edges of
    rubber seals ie around the windscreen etc. Also, if its not a bonded
    type screen, lift the seal away from the bodywork and check to see if
    there is a ridge of paint. If these tests prove positive it would
    indicate that some form of repair work has been carried out!.
    
     I once had a look at a 2nd hand Cavalier which had 3K on the clock and
    looked, well, like new. There was signs of paint on the rear windscreen
    rubber and when standing infront of the car the roofline appeared to
    slightly dip away to the passenger side. On questioning the dealer he
    admitted that the car had been rolled!!!!. Thing was he hadn't
    volunteered this info.
    
     Most people when spraying cars normally mask of the opviously visible
    surfaces when spraying but it is to time consuming to remove all
    fittings and cover all the surfaces.
    
    Dave

    Check the number plate lights (is that the correct term ?) no one ever
    masks these off.

�     Most people when spraying cars normally mask of the opviously visible
�    surfaces when spraying but it is to time consuming to remove all
�    fittings and cover all the surfaces.
    
    Yes, so besides 'paint ridges' and 'overlap on windscreen rubbers',
    you will often find a slight paint 'mist' on many of the areas below
    the bodywork, ie beneath wings, underfloor and sill region, even the
    wheels.  If you think to look for this overspray, it is quite easy to
    detect when a repair has taken place.
    
    I must say, selling a 'rolled' car could be classed as a 'shady deal'...
    
    Another thing, try looking at the service history (if available).
    
    J.R.

    	A 'Shady deal' especially if they get the wrong colour mix. Ha Ha.!
    
    If its a RED car your buying, try looking at it under an orange street
    lamp. The obsorption or is it reflection qualities of the resparyed
    paint will be different from the original paint. You may find that in
    daylight you can see no difference but under the lamp the old paint
    looks very much lighter or darker than the resprayed areas. 
    
    Dave.

The worst case I know of is a friend of mine who bought a second hand Astra 
which turned out to be the front half of one write-off and the back half of 
another welded together.  It is not at all obvious and was only spotted when 
they took it in to a garage to have some work done underneath.

The giveaway is that if you scratch the paint on the back half you see that it
has been resprayed from a different colour to the front half!

This was a private sale not a dealer but there is a possibility of a prosecution
against the guy who sold this (and apparantly similar cars to other people) as
it is potentially lethal.

Jon

    re .6 Are you suggesting that one should scratch the paintwork when
    viewing a 2nd hand car?.
    
    Dave.
    

    	As a point of interest .6, isn't the Floor Pan of the Rover and the
    Metro range built in two halves welded together. I seem to remember
    seeing a prog. on TV which was all about corrosion and they were
    discussing the virtues of the forward and reward welded overlaps on
    these cars.
    
    	I believe that a New car can be sold as such even though it may
    have filled bodywork. I think that providing there is no more than a mm
    of filler in depth over a certain area the car can be considered OK to
    ship. Talking of ships, in Avonmaouth were most Fiats are unloaded
    there is a special body shop which repairs new cars damaged in transit.
    
    Dave.
    

    I think any car that has not been pre-owned, ie registered to someone
    can be sold as new, I was told of the case of a large number of Jaguars
    which were sandblasted in a storm whilst at a port waiting to go to the
    US.  They were all shipped back to a Jaguar repairer, stripped back and
    resprayed - then exported to the States - as new !!
    
    Doug
    

Re .7

> Are you suggesting that one should scratch the paintwork when viewing a 2nd
> hand car?.

Er, no.  I was just saying this was the test which demonstrated it after the 
garage had already found out by looking underneath.  When you find that your car
is actually two half-cars, a bit of scratched paintwork is the least of your
problems.

Please note that I am not liable if Dave comes round and scratches your car...

:-)

Jon

    Check for any body filler etc by using a magnet wrapped in a piece
    of cloth. Rub it over the areas such as wings, sills etc and if there
    is large amounts of filler then the magnet wont stick.
    
    
    Regards
    Martin

    Well!???? Alex, did you buy a 2nd hand car ?.
    
    Dave.
    

    Another dodge is to view the car from different angles wearing Polaroid
    sunglasses.  This will show repaired paintwork up very quickly as
    the reflectance will differ from the factory paint.
    
    Now you know why all the used car dealers wear shades.....
    
    Alan

    	So you might say be on the lookout for a shady deal.
    
    Dave.

    re.12
    
    Yes.  And so far so good ish.  We have only had a couple of teething
    problems.  The radio needed replacing, and the sun roof is little
    stiff.  Spotted a tiny bit of rust under the rubber seal on the drivers
    door...and there is a smell of burning oil which is not a good sign. 
    
    However, we have a full years' warranty which covers all of the above,
    parts & labour.
    
    Otherwise, we're very happy.  And thanks for all your advice.
    
    Happy New Year.
    Alex

    Just got the car back from the burning oil smell is apparently due to
    the lacquer on the exhaust which will burn off after use.  It is
    apparently used when preparing the car for sale.
    
    Pheww....
    
    
    Alex

    I'm thinking of buying a second hand VW Passat Estate, J/K reg. 
    Hopefully for between five and seven thou.  Closer to five I hope :-). 
    Anyway, I've been looking through 'Exchange and Mart' for a few weeks
    to gain a rough idea of prices, etc. and there seems to be a very large
    amount of cars, generally, being sold by people who purport to be in
    the "trade".  (I presume that's what the "T" stands for after the ad,
    as opposed to "P" for private).  For example, this week there are 25
    Passats for sale, 17 are trade and 8 are private.  Is there any
    significance to this?  The prices being charged are somewhat cheaper
    that you would see on a dealer forecourt.  Is there a cottage industry
    of people going to auctions buying up cars, giving them a clean
    (perhaps) and then advertising them for a a 'K' or two more?
    
    Generally, does anyone have any experience of owning a Passat, is
    there anything I should look out for?  Also, is there any come back if
    you have an AA/RAC survey and later the car proves to be a duffer?
     
    Ta.
    
    Mike 

    Re; 1317.17
    
    Yeah, I've had a Passat CL 1.6 turbo diesel estate since 1989. It was
    8 months old when I bought it. I'm not 'into' cars; for me they just
    perform a useful function, but because of the high mileage I do, they
    have to be reliable. This car has been a beauty. It's ENORMOUS inside
    and you'll never feel your hair touching the roof as often happens in
    modern cars and the legroom in the rear is incredible - a bit like the
    pre-war bangers. It's done 80,000 miles and I've just changed the discs
    - they'd deteriorated rather a lot; but there was still wear in the
    pads! (though I changed them) and the rear shoes are original and still
    OK. It does seem a bit heavy on front tyre wear, though. The exhaust wa
    changed at about 70,000 miles. I also own a 1.9 turbo diesel Golf and
    it's a mystery to me why VW didn't put the 1.6 into the Golf, 'cos I
    find the Passat cheaper to run of the two and pretty much as nippy.
    
    Mike