Conference terri::cars_uk

    I have a Tamiya Boomerang. Never raced or rallyed just bought it to be
    a big kid. If anybody is interested I might sell it. The car comes
    complete with controller and battery charger, and is finished in a
    striking electric blue colour.
    
    Ian.

    The racing Porsche mentioned in note circa 50.135 is a based on a
    Schumacher Cougar chassis (2wd) and a Parma Porsche 911 bodyshell.  As
    far as I can tell it is exactly what you would get if you bought a
    Schumacher 911 Turbo SE, except that I don't expect to use the tyres
    that are in the kit as the MRC Intermediates I have will do a better
    job in the wet and Schumacher foams will be better in the dry.  For the
    first run I used a Technigold motor with Sanyo 1200 SCR cells geared by
    the end of the day at 32/86 (no kidding, it was ballistic!).  I put
    lots of internal spacing in the front shocks with 40wt oil.  Rear
    shocks were more or less standard but also with 40wt oil.  Off road the
    Cougar would use 10-15wt oil.
    
    Radio equipment was Futaba with 112B speed controller and Multiplex steering
    servo.  Basic handling was good but the nose tended to lift causing the
    car to pull wheelies over the humps (it was very windy!).  I made a
    makeshift nose support but it was not srong enough for the odd "coming
    together".
    
    For next time (December 9th) I am probably going to install the
    hex super diff, slipper clutch and replace the Futaba speed controller
    with a Tekin 411P and run a Demon/Power Products 15 Quad Power King
    and use Sanyo 1400SCR cells (bbk Racing matched).  At the moment the
    cell matching is proving a little more time consuming than I would
    have liked it to, not to mention creating a slight cash flow problem
    for bbk Racing!  How much of the above installation gets done depends
    on time or my selling the upgrade parts!  Most engineering gets done
    either the night before or at the trackside before racing!  The first
    outing for the Cougar (then a TopCat) was at the first BRCA 2wd
    National this year.  I finished the car 15 minutes before its first
    qualification run and produced my best time of the day.  A bit
    depressing really, shows either natural genious or a total inability to
    learn!
    
    I will only be racing half the day on the 9th as I have to attend the BRCA
    1/10th section committee meeting in Leicester in the afternoon/evening.
    
    I expect to be at the Model Engineering Exhibition in January, either
    racing or Race Control, probably only on January 4th.
    
    
    Regards,
    
    Rob

    Re .0
    
    Sounds interesting enough - how about quoting approximate costs.
    
    Re .2
    
�    I expect to be at the Model Engineering Exhibition in January, either
    
    Where will this exhibition be held, over how many days ?
    
    J.R.

    Alexadra Palace, Dec 29-Jan 8 or thereabouts. Gtaes open 1000hrs
    -1800hrs except on the Thursday when its 1000-2000hrs, Entry is �4ish
    for adults. Plenty to see (I'll be there for the live steam) but boats,
    trains cars even indoor aeroplanes and even even indoor R/C hot air
    ballons ....... lots of trade stands with kits, components, tools and
    some at silly prices. I bought HSS taps for 50p each (Normal price
    about �3), HSS dies foe 75p-�1 (normal price about �4) good quality
    known manufacture new files for �1 each .........
    
    Try it, you'll like it.

    Re -1....
    
    P.S. there is a free shuttle bus service from the tube station to the
    exhibition hall.

    What on a model hot air balloon can you control by radio?
    
    Steve

    Costs
    
    To get started you will need the following:-
    
    1	A car.  Go for something cheap with 2wd.  Avoid 4wd as it is more
    complex, teaches you bad habbits and the cheap ones are more troubler
    than they are worth.  Suggestions are Tamiya Falcon or Mardave Meteor. 
    You don't need ballraces to learn, but they are a good idea.  Expect to
    outgroy the car in 3-6 months.  Cost about 60 pounds.
    
    2	Radio.  A Futaba 27Mhz Attack with 2 servos is cheapest, around 40
    pounds.  Stick with the mechanical speed controller as electronic ones
    can get burnt out by the novice in no time flat.  You could buy a more
    expensive 40Mhz radio but you don't know what features you need
    (adjustable rate etc) and the crystals are more expensive.  You will
    need a couple of spare crystals when you try running with other
    drivers, these are 4 pounds a set for 27Mhz but up to 12.50 a set for
    40Mhz.
    
    3	A motor.  Stick with a standard or stock motor or the one that
    comes with the kit.  Avoid modified motors like the plague.
    
    4	Cells and charger.  Buy the cheapest cells you can, arround 15-18
    pounds for 1200 mAh SCRs.  You don't need matched cells and you DONT
    need SCEs.  You will need a couple of sets.  A slow charger (14-16)
    hours will cost a bout a fiver.  The fast chargers are a bit more
    expensive.  Go for a peak detect charger (takes about 25 minutes and
    costs circa 36-40 pounds).  Avoid mechanical timer chargers as they will
    not shut down when the cells are charged, resulting in overcharging and
    possible injury! Your car will run for 8-10 minutes on a hard surface
    with modest gearing.  Rather less on grass.
    
    5	Somewhere to learn!  A big, empty space with no hard things to
    crash into (and break your car).  The street (with lamposts, curbs and
    walls) is NOT the place.  An empty car park or tennis court or school
    playground is OK but stay away from the edge.  Beware that when the
    cells go flat the throttle servo may stick and the car will trundle on,
    without steering so make sure there are no dangers!
    
    Once you have learnt to drive (steer round a simple track made with old
    tyres etc) then go to a local club and try driving with others.  Don't
    set your expectations too high.  You will probably come last or not
    even last the 5 minutes.
    
    When you start winning novice races at you local club think about
    getting a competitive car.  This will be a big outlay as you will want
    a car, electronic speed controller, possibly new motors and cells. 
    Provided that you accept that the greatest obstacle to sucess is your
    own ability rather that not having the latest gizmos then running costs
    will not be too great.
    
    By the time you decide on a new car you will have a pretty good idea
    what you want, but I would strongly recommend Schumacher cars.  They
    don't need a lot of "tune up" parts, the spares are plentiful and the
    track record is that you have always been able to update old ones to
    the latest model for modest cost.  What is more they are British, in a
    Japanese dominated market.
    
    If you want more info post a reply or call me.  
    
    Regards,
    
    Rob 

    Hi Rob, very interested to see your note on RC racing. Just happened
    to drop into it.
    
    I would like to know more about you and your club.
    
    What kind of races do you run ?
    
    How big is your club ?
    
    Do you run indoors ?
    
    What type of racing you do  ?
                                 
    How long have you been in the sport ?
    
    I race 1/12 scale 4 cell indoors during the winter and 1/10 2 wheel
    drive off road in the summer.
    
    Back when I was younger (in 1970 to 74) I ran 1/8th gas, I gave it
    up to go Kart racing. Now I'm too old to race karts I have gone
    back to RC in the electrics this time.
    
    I have a TRC PRO12 and my son has a TRC PRO10. In the summer I have
    a JRX-2 and my son has a Top cat. Your comment on sons beating dads
    struck home here.
    
    We race indoors every Sunday. We run a stock class 1/12th
    GTP and sports bodies plus a stock 4 cell 1/10th NASCAR bodies. We find
    the 1/10th is very good for beginners as the 4 cells keeps the power
    down and easier to manage. 
    
    Our 1/12th is stock but they are so fast only the very best can drive them
    up to thier full potential.
    
    In the summer we run 2WD stock (6 cell) and OPEN ( 7 cell 2wd or
    4wd with hot motor) plus MONSTER TRUCK (plastic kit type), and what we
    call HEAVY METAL, these are modified RC10 or JRX2 into the big wheel 
    trucks. This was a new class in our club last year, now they have
    the truck kits that fit right in JRX-T etc.
    
    Our club has about 80 members of which about 35 to 45 are active
    each week.
    
    Costs, here in Canada seem to be about the same as you stated allowing
    for a $2 to 1# in cost. I get Model Car mag over here once in a
    while and can see most of the same equipment.
    
    looking forward to hear from you.
    
    Regards
    Fred Zufelt
               
    DEC Canada  (kanata plant)
    
    
     

    Club is the Bury Buggy Club, if you get UK model car mags look out for 
    
    Radio Control Model Cars, March 1991.
    
    It contains an article by Es West reagrding the BRCA Regional
    Championship Final which was held at our club.  Before the meeting I
    told Es, who is a friend, that the meeting would be finished by 4pm
    (they often run long into the evening, which is VERY unpopular) and
    that as a result he should give us a good write-up.  It did and he did!
    
    The club races 1/10th scale electric, mostly off-road but during the
    winter we race circuit cars, typically off-road chassis with European
    Sports bodies, I drive a Flat Nose 911.
    
    The club has about 100 members and we use AMB autocount equipment with
    computer (software written by me for PC compatible).  If you want a
    copy to play with let me know and I'll put it on the network (in a
    couple of weeks).
    
    Most popular car in the UK is the Schumacher ProCAT and the Cougar,
    which is an improvement on the TopCAT (conversion kit available). 
    Schumacher also have a Stadium Truck version/conversion for the
    Cougar.  Monster Truck has not really taken off here (yet?).
    
    Schumacher are launching a gas/petrol version of the Cougar this spring
    and I'm told by the factory that it goes VERY fast!  They are looking
    for tracks to race it on!  Should do tyre sales a bit of good!
    
    With the Worlds coming up in Detroit this year there is lots of
    speculation regarding updates to kits.  The UK team has been selected
    (I am on the BRCA 1/10th Committee that selects the team, based on the
    1990 National Championship).  The question is which car will they
    drive?
    
    Tamiya has been wooing drivers, Yokomo are trying but Schumacher seem to
    be very quite(?).
    
    Keep in touch,
    
    Rob

    
    Hi,
       I've just been reading this conference and I'm very interested in
    this sport. Its seems really good for those people who can't afford
    to buy the real thing and race !!
    
       What sort of money would it cost to keep this sport up ?
    
       Would you advise buying good second hand gear ? What sort of money   
    are you talking about (new and old) as a "total" ?                                     			
       
       Are there many clubs to join ? Are they very helpful ?
    
       Do parts go wrong easily ? 
    
       Can I go and watch before deciding what to do ?
    
      
    
    thanks craig..
    
    interested !!
    
    
    
    
       

    Craig,
    
    I've heard that they have model car racing at the craft centre in
    Viables on Sunday mornings.
    
    - Roy

 There should be no problem in watching before entering.

 As with all sports of this type, it will be expensive if you want to be fairly
competitive, despite the fact that the prices of motors are controlled, with
there being two different types of motor, stock (with a limit on m=number of 
windings, and lower price control) and modified (anything goes, but within a 
price limit, which was 45 pounds last hing I knew, but has probably changed).
The expense is with all the 'trick' bits that you can put around these, like
matched cells (higher current/last longer), faster servos, electronic speed
controller, special chargers, 1.7Ah battery packs, trued tyres, etc.

 On the other hand, I used to go down with basically a standard kit, but using
a decent stock motor, and had great fun despite the fact that I never did
that well.

 The kits are generally fairly tough, but hitting things has been known to 
damage them, although you will soon learn what parts are strongest, and thus
how you knock other people out of the way with out any damage !!!

 While on the subject, my brother was talking about selling his ProCat, which
is a 4WD car with adjustable most things, with quite a few trick parts. If 
anyone is interested, then I will ask him for more details.

		 Alan
		~~~~~~

    
    Is road/circuit racing better than off road racing ?
    
    Any difference in cost ?
    
    
    craig.
    
    
    

 Wouldn't have thought that the cost was much different as all the extras are
the same for both, although you wouldn't need things like shocks !! It may
be cheaper in spares, but I have not tried it, or even met anyone who has !!!

 		 Alan
		~~~~~~

    
    
    
    I visited one course near to brean (western super mare), It was a huge
    track with a building where all the drivers (if this is what you call
    them ?) holding the controllers stand. It was very professional, pit
    stops etc. Also they had an off road course behind the tarmac course.
    
    Is this how most of them are set up ? 
    
    craig
    
    
    

The track you say near Weston was a 1/8th petrol powered circuit.  The racing 
you say was to a very high standard.  Compare that with what you see at 
Viables and you would think it was two different sports, which it almost is!

There are a large number of Formula in model car racing:

1/12th.  electric.  Group C type cars and stock (oval) cars.  Mostly indoors.

1/10th. electric. Either off-road or circuit.  1/10th off road is by far the 
most numerous.  Mostly outdoors.

1/8th. petrol engine.  Group C, Off-road or Stock, all VERY different!  Always 
outdoors.

1/4th petrol.  New and not very numerous.  Always outdoors.

I suppose the bigger the car the more expensive it is.  Electric 1/10th is 
cheap to get started but avoid a complex car.  I would not advise a ProCAT to 
begin with.  It is top of the range and you would wreck it before you learned 
to drive and properly maintain it!  See one of the early notes for beginners 
advise.  Parts usually break due to accident damage.  Running a quality racing 
car up and down the street is a good way to wreck them.  Hitting a kerb at 
20-30mph will usually take out the suspension.  Collision with other cars is 
mostly harmless.  I doubt whether you could do must more than 10 pounds worth 
of mechanical damage, electrical damage can be MUCH more expensive.

In terms of money the majority of people get a lot of fun out of 2-300 pounds 
worth of eqiupment.  The fanatics spend thousands on equipment and travel.

Best advise is find a local club, go and have a look,  think about a good 
quality 2nd hand SIMPLE car (ie 2wd), make sure you get the manual,  get a 
cheap 27Mhz radio and a couple of battery packs and fast charger (you have 
spent about 200 pounds) and go to the local park (if short grass) or 
playground and learn to steer the car.  Make sure that if the car "runs away" 
it wont get flattened by a car/lost in a ditch etc.  Depending on age (kids 
are MUCH quicker) it will take a few weeks to get the hang of it.  It clicks 
when you stop thinking about which way to push the sticks (BTW sticks are far 
more numerous than steering wheel controllers and in most opions give a far 
better degree of control).  Find a local club that caters for beginners and 
join the ladder.  Be careful.  Every 100 pounds you spend buys a smaller 
degree of improvement.

As mentioned elsewhere I keep a large stock of bits and pieces for cars, as do 
lots of people, so that you will often be able to get spares at larger club 
meetings.  I also have a small 'forecourt' of 2nd hand cars, only used on 
Sundays, one careful owner, genuine low milage etc.  (we did a 24 hour charity 
race a few years back, the cars covered about 300 miles each!).  Current 
selection includes Mardave Meteor, RC10 (raced on TV!) and in a few weeks a 
CAT XLS.  There are also a few 'bangers' (suitable for spares etc) including a 
Marui Hunter, Optima (belt drive) and a 2wd car whose name escapes me!

Lists available on request! (via external mail).

Best of luck and keep in touch,

Rob

    
    
    
    Alan (or anyone)
     
           Do you know anywhere I could visit ie: Basingstoke, Reading etc	
    to look at some equipment ?
    
            craig..
    
    
    

> Do you know anywhere I could visit ie: Basingstoke, Reading etc	
> to look at some equipment ?

Fnar, Fnar, snarf, snarf


;^)

    There is a hobby shop on the Oxford Road that specialises in R/C cars,
    planes and helicopters. It's on the south side of the road in a line of
    shops some ways past the Do-it-All (nee Payless).....

 Unfortunately I have no idea around Reading (or even close) area.

		 Alan
		~~~~~~

    Rob, I was looking over your reply .10 again. I didn't trigger on
    the AMB scoring system the first time I read it.
    
    We are looking at this type of scoring for our R/C club, but the price 
    is hard to justify without a lot of digging into the subject.(it's
    hard to get buy-off from everybody)
    
    That's not what I wanted to talk about. I see you wrote the program
    for the AMB system.
    
    I am looking for software to count our Kart races. 
    
    We would not have transmitters so the counting would have to be
    entered by hand via the key pad I guess.
    
    Do you know of any system/program that can handle a Kart race program?
    
    Our daily schedule looks like this:
    
    	3 heats of 20 laps with 22 karts max.
    	each heat has the grid made up of the finish of the last heat.
    
    	We run 4 classes.
    
    We have been looking, but I haven't seen any on the market. I thought
    a modified R/C program may do the trick.
    
    What do you think ?
    
    Fred Zufelt
    Ottawa Canada
                         

Send mail to Kevin (GIDDAY::) Hutchison.  He has a timing system that works
on a PRO and Commodore.

Dave

    re .22
    
    AMB equipment is expensive but is becoming the norm in the UK because
    of the speed of the cars and the intense competitiveness.  BTW AMB make
    the systems used in full scale racing where the driver wears the
    transponder.
    
    Most counting systems take imput from the keyboard.  With a maximum of
    10 cars it is easy.  More than 10 cars and either shift/alt/ctrl have
    to be used (with the danger of error) or the enter key must be used.
    
    AMB are about to release a 20 car counting system, so I am looking at
    extending my program.  Either a Resize or Scroll Bar system for viewing
    the car's status will be called for.  I suspect I might go to 30 cars
    to cater for full scale.
    
    One of the main features of the program is driver and RC frequency
    management, which is not appropriate in full scale.
    
    I'll make an effort to put an evaluation copy on the network in the
    next few days so you can pull it and have a look.  Printer support is
    still primative, just EPSOM FX80 at the moment.  Minimum platform is
    PC/XT running MS-DOS 3.x 512K memory and a single 360k disk.  
    
    Regards,
    
    Rob
    
    Rob
    is called for