Conference 7.286::home_work

    Man I hope not. I built my whole house with WD-40 and Duct tape.
    
    John H.

    WD-40 has a fairly volatile base.  Spray it on something, wait
    several weeks, and it will get very tacky.  Not real good for
    something which doesn't move frequently.

WD40 is reputed to be an aid to fishermen who use worms/crawlers for
bait. I saw an article that recommended spraying the worm after baiting 
the hook because, according to the article, it removed all traces of
human scents left by fingers when putting the worm on the hook, and the 
WD40 scent actually attracted fish. 

Maybe Spag's should sell it at the fish and tackle counter.

 - john
    

  The inert base of WD40 is some kind of petroleum distillate which
  dissolves some plastics. I used it once on something in my car (some
  kind of grommet or gasket -- I forget) and it dissolved it and I had
  to replace the part.

    	Or maybe molecularly-distorted duct tape:-).

    The difference between WD40 and silicon spray is that while silicon
    will keep moisture out, WD40's molecular structure allows it to
    *replace* moisture.  This from my friend the intelligent mechanic.

    Supposedly, the WD stands for water displacement.

	
	I'm having some trouble removing the bolts that hold my auto
	license plates in place.  After five years of not being moved
	and exposed to the elements, they're frozen solid.

	If I try to use a screwdriver, the slots just sort of melt away
	(the bolt head seems much softer than my screwdriver blade).  The
	bolts go into the car body, so I can't attack them from behind.

	I tried a handheld impact driver, but no luck.
	Any suggestions on my next plan of attack?
		*Will soaking them with a break-free type liquid really help?
		*Someone mentioned drilling out the bolt head- how would that
			help?
		*If I took it to a service station would their power drivers
			have any more luck than an impact driver?
                                
	I did a dir/title, but only came up with questions regarding bolts
	frozen in concrete.

		Thank you,	
			Dave

What you want is a screw extractor.  You drill a hole in the bolt, then thread
in the extractor, which has backwards threads so that it tightens as you turn
counter-clockwise.  Then just turn the extractor till the screw comes out.

These can be purchased at most hardware stores, and come in different sizes,
so have a good idea of the size of bolt you're removing.

			Steve

    This may be a real problem.  I doubt that you'd have much success
    with the screw extractor.  For one thing, it's probably a 1/4-20
    machine bolt, which means the shank of the bolt (once you discount
    the threads) is only about .2", and to drill a centered, perpendicular
    hole in something .2" in diameter using a hand drill, when it is
    not really clear, because of the bolt head, where the center IS, 
    is quite a trick.  If you could set up the whole thing in a drill 
    press you'd stand a chance, but that might be kind of difficult in 
    this situation....!  Worth a try if other things fail, but I'd not
    be optimistic.
    
    Penetrating oil might help.  Put some on a couple of times a day
    every day for a week.
    
    You might be able to deepen the screw slot with a Dremel tool and
    a thin abrasive cutoff wheel.
    
    Can you take out some of the interior trim of the car and get at
    the bolts on the inside?  If so, you could better apply the penetrating
    oil.  You might also be able to slot the ends of the bolts with
    a thin hacksaw or Dremel cutoff wheel and unscrew the bolts using
    a screwdriver from the inside.
    
    You could drill/grind off the bolt heads, but then you'd be left
    with bolts with no heads you'd have to get out...not much help.

    If all the liquid wrench and cutting doesn't work then do what I've
    had to do.  Drill out the screw with a bit that is slightly smaller
    that the screw (trying to not drill out the threads). You'll need
    a variable drill and lubricate the drill while you cut.  You may
    have to drill a small pilot hole first and then go to the next larger
    size drill bit.  Next run a threaded tap thru the hole drilled and
    this will either clean out the hole or create a clean tapped hole
    for some "NEW" plastic screws to hold your license plate on.
    You might have to go up to the next size screw hole if your not
    centered on the screw when you drill in out.
    
    (I'm assuming that the old screws are attached to a threaded piece
    on the car and are not attached with a floating nut)  
    
    This approach is messy and one of last resort.
    
    
    
    

  You could try heating it with a torch.  This will cause the bolt
  to expand and contract and often will also burn up whatever is
  freezing it in place.  Naturally you only want to do this when the
  bolt is in a place that's relatively fireproof and not near any
  wires, fuel or fluid lines.

    What workes for me is grabbing the EDGES of the screw head with
    a small vise-grip pliers and twisting.  As my father-in-law says,
    brute force and violence will solve almost any problem.
    
    pbm
    

    I'm for drilling it as suggested a few notes back. I have had this
    probem repeatedly and found that once the drill gets through the 
    bolt, the bolt comes free to the point where is can be turned out
    easily.
    
    I'm against grinding, heating, cutting, etc., all of these can damage
    the surrounding area. Use nylon nuts the next time, at least they are 
    very easy to drill.

    On my last two cars, the bolts were screwed into plastic widgets that
    snapped into the holes on the car, or they were firmly attached to a
    metal frame, which was attached to the car by the aforementioned
    widgets.  The bolts were also frozen.  When it came time to remove the
    plate, I used liquid wrench.  That worked for some, and brute force
    broke the widgets on the rest.  New widgets cost about 10� at most
    body shops.

    You probably managed to remove them by now, but the following
    technique, although ridiculously simple, has often let me free
    rusted-in screws.
    
    Try to turn the screw clockwise as hard as you dare withought stripping
    the slot. Then, when you've fooled it into thinking that you're
    trying to tighten it up, change direction and with any luck it will
    begin to move.
    
    Deepening the slot as much as you dare before you start also helps.
    
    dick

    I'll second .-1.  I once spent a half hour working on a frozen bolt
    using liquid wrench, WD-40, maybe even Crisco.. :-)
    
    Being a bit tired after all that, I accidently started to _tighten_ the
    bolt.  Realizing my error, I tried the other direction and the bolt
    suddenly started to loosen up.
    
    Maybe it was mostly bolt psychology..
    
    __r
    

    
    
    Thank you for all your replies and suggestions.  Just wanted to follow
    up and explain what I did.
    
    For the front plates, I followed the suggestion of liberal doses of
    Liquid Wrench over a period of days.  Then I grabbed the bolt heads
    with a 10" channel lock pliers, and that did the trick.
    
    The rears were harder, since they screwed into the car body (station
    wagon rear door).  I removed the interior trim to get at the inside
    of the sheetmetal, and sprayed that side with Liquid Wrench as well.
    Nothing did the trick.  Since I didn't feel like taking any more
    drastic action, I simply tore out the old license plate, and put the
    new on with the aid of pliers and coat hangers.  Not your prettiest
    job, but simple and quick and effective, and with an 8-year old car,
    I didn't care for beauty all that much.
    
    Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.
    	Dave
    

    I have little lubrication ports on the electric blower moter on my FHA
    Oil Furnace and on my motor for my water pump.
    
    What kind of oil can I safely put in these ports?  I understand it
    should be about 10W, but don't know if I can use a 10W detergent
    automotive oil or need to get something else.
    
    Thanks,
     Bruce

>    I have little lubrication ports on the electric blower moter on my FHA
>    Oil Furnace and on my motor for my water pump.
>    
>    What kind of oil can I safely put in these ports?  I understand it
>    should be about 10W, but don't know if I can use a 10W detergent
>    automotive oil or need to get something else.
   
	    3 in 1 makes an oil labeled for medium sized motors.  The one
	I saw came in a can the same size, but a different color, than
	the ones we all grew up with.

					Tim

    I just went through quite an exercise a little while ago trying to
    figure out what oil I should use to lubricate my lathe and milling
    machine.  There are some good discussions about lubrication issues
    in SILK::ENG_IN_MINIATURE.
    
    You want (probably) #10 machine oil.  NOTE: 10W oil is *NOT*
    the same as #10 oil!!!  You also don't want automobile engine oil.
    Engine oil is designed to emulsify water; machine oil is designed
    to precipitate water.  Since engine oil gets above the boiling point
    of water, the emulsified water gets driven out, but machine (or 
    motor) bearings run at room temperature, and you don't want water
    (from condensation, etc.) mixed in the oil.
    
    Automobile engines have full-flow oil filters, so they use detergent
    oils to keep the dirt in suspension until it can be taken out by
    the filter.  Machinery and motor bearings need non-detergent oil so
    the dirt will precipitate out and not stay in the oil.
    
    Whether either of these differences would *really* matter on a
    practical level when oil motor bearings is debatable, I think, but 
    they are the theoretical reasons why you don't want to use automobile
    engine oil.
    
    A good substitute for #10 machine oil is regular automatic transmission
    fluid, or hydraulic oil with a viscosity of (about) 32 centistokes or
    150 Saybolt Universal Seconds.
    
    The "CRC Handbook of Tables for Applied Engineering Science" is
    available in the MLO library, and it gives some viscosity tables
    that are useful.

>    A good substitute for #10 machine oil is regular automatic transmission
>    fluid, or hydraulic oil with a viscosity of (about) 32 centistokes or
>    150 Saybolt Universal Seconds.

While I don't doubt that this is true, I can just imagine what some sales
clerk is going to do to you if you go asking for centistrokes or Universal
Seconds. Probably get a couple of Universal strokes upside your jaw.

I use Singer Sewing machine oil for all sorts of little lube jobs like
those in .0. It's also available anywhere.

Mickey.

    For the record: it's centistokes, not centistrokes...  Any ATF
    fluid ought to be okay and the hydraulic fluid might give the 
    number on the can.  But I agree - easier to buy some light oil 
    like 3-in-1 and just use that.
    
    Centistrokes = new unit of measure for rowers?  100 strokes/minutes?  :-)
    

    .4:
    
�    Centistrokes = new unit of measure for rowers?  100 strokes/minutes?  :-)
    
    CENTI- divides the measured unit by 100.  (HECTO- is what multiplies by
    100.)
    
    I suppose that "centistrokes" could be the number of hundredths of
    strokes per second.
    

This is getting interesting.

I'm pretty sure our whole house fan calls for 20W oil.  We found oil
marked 20W, made by 3-in-1, right next to their regular 3-in-1 oil;
similar shaped can and
logo, but different color scheme.  We may have to double check when we open
up the fan this spring, just to be sure.  I wonder if the arguments in
favor of machine oil, in .2, would apply.

   Gary

    You can have 20W machine oil; the 20W is just a viscosity rating.
    It says nothing about the other properties of the oil.  I would
    guess that most machine oil, though, would be rated SAE 20 instead
    of 20W, as the "W" means the viscosity is being measured at (I think)
    0 degrees F and most machinery runs in conditions closer to room
    temperature.
    At some point, I suspect a lot of this stuff just doesn't matter
    as long as the oil is approximately correct.  Almost any oil at 
    all is likely to be better than not enough oil.

Well, after 10 years of faithful service, my Surdiac coal stove 
needs a new heat exchanger.  I'm usually pretty good with DIY 
stuff like this but this one has me stumped.  The heat exchanger, 
a stamped steel device, is held in place on the internal iron 
castings with screws.  It's much the same arrangement as an 
exhaust manifold on an engine, in that things get pretty hot, 
except it uses screws with heads rather than threaded studs/nuts.

After spraying on "industrial strength" penetrating oil for the 
past week and banging on the screws to loosen them, they won't 
budge.  I'm afraid of applying so much torque that they break off.

Anyone had any experience with getting screws like this that have 
"frozen" to a casting to cooperate?  If need be, I will do what it 
takes and pay the consequences (drill and tap) but I'd rather not.

Lou Snider
DTN 264-2990

(Cross-posted in PORI::STOVES)

    Can the stove be lit?
    
    I used to hit frozen manifold bolts with a torch for a few seconds.
    Maybe you can (a) do the same or, (b) light the stove and let it
    heat the nuts for you....???
    
    Edd

    If you really get desperate and do manage to snap the heads off, there
    is another way to get the rest of the bolts out. Drill a pilot hole
    through the center of the bolt then take a Dremel tool and grind the
    bolt away from the inside out. When you have ground enough to see the
    spiral of the threads stop. Then use some needle nose pliers to pull
    the remaining bolt threads from the hole.
    	My friend used this technique on a car muffler bolt. he said it
    worked pretty well.

Lou,

I replaced the heat exchnager on my Gotha 713 a couple years ago. 
If you have the same model, I think you're talking about the 
bolts that are only accessible from the inside of the stove? By 
removing all but these bolts, I managed to get enough space to 
get a hacksaw blade in there and cut them. It was the only way 
they would've come out.

Good luck, it's a job I will not do again.

daryll

> <<< Note 4777.3 by SALEM::DODA "WhateverHappenedtoPersonalResponsibility?" >>>
>             -< Use PLENTY of stove cement and gasket afterwards >-
>
>Lou,>
>
>I replaced the heat exchnager on my Gotha 713 a couple years ago. 


	You guys have got me curious.  I have a Surdiac that is 7 years young
	and I'm wondering if I should be looking at the heat exchangers ?  
	Problem is I can't seem to imagine where they are ?!  The only things
	I done to this stove is clean the rear smoke chamber every year and
	replace a couple of glass pieces that I inadvertantly poked out.  I
	replaced all the rope gaskets this year also.  The only other thing 
	that I've noticed *might* need attention in the next milenium is 
	that the bottom of the hopper is decaying slightly and is flaking away
	little by little (very little so far .... perhaps 1/4 in)

	Chuck

Chuck,

The heat exchanger is literally the section that is the entiore 
back of the stove. It's the section with the cleanouts and where 
your stove pipe connects to.

If your stove is in the basement, as mine is, it's much more 
suspectible to rust than if it were upstairs.

My stove was roughly ten years old when it went. I went to remove 
the bolts holding the cleanout panels and found myself holding 
the screw the panel and a portion of the heat exchanger.

Every spring, the pipe comes down and goes in the attic. The 
entire stove get a thorough once over with the wetvac.

Once you do this once, you never want to do it again...

Pleasant :-)

Incidentally, Surdiac is a Swedish company I believe. I ordered a 
new heat excahnger in OCT (Stove Shoppe, Salem NH). The warehouse 
in CT was fresh out and the order had to go to the factory for 
one. It arrived in April....

Luckily, I managed to put the panel back on with plenty of stove 
cement. I also installed a CO alarm.

daryll

>The heat exchanger is literally the section that is the entiore 
>back of the stove. It's the section with the cleanouts and where 
>your stove pipe connects to.

	Ok, that's the section I was refering to as the Smoke Chamber. Mine
	is located in the living room but I know what you mean about rust. 
	The pipe leading from the stove to the chimney was replaced last year.
	
	A 'trick' I've found that seems to work a little is to put a couple
	of dry pieces of wood in the stove during the off season and let it 
	absorb the moisture in the stove.  I should take down the pipe but I
	never get 'round to it.

	Chuck

    If you have an impact driver can you get that into where the screws 
    are...I've had good luck with impact tools on frozen fasteners.
    
    re -.1 good idea but maybe a tin pie plate filled with charcoal
    would be more effective...I've seen this recommended to keep
    moisture away from stored cars.
    
             Dean

    Well, this past weekend I finally had the time to attack the beast
    again.  A combination of penetrating oil, heat, shock (yes, with an
    impact tool), and assorted verbiage not to be repeated here did the
    trick.  All screws came out.  One broke off but a stub remained which
    was persuaded out with a vice grips.
    
    Thank you all for the advice!
    
    \Lou