Conference 7.286::home_work

    Dave
    
    There is always the danger of gasoline fumes with open flame type
    heaters. There are electrical or gas type infrared heaters that
    will heat only you and not the air around you. When I finished off
    my garage here in Colorado, I insulated to a R12 rating to help
    maintain the above freezing temperatures, thus using very little
    extra energy to heat where I'm working.
    
    There is also a turbine electric/ kerosene heater that I have see
    used but I don't know much about it.
    
    Infrared heaters are doesn't require vents. The kerosene heaters
    does.
    
    /cal hoe

    I have a 26x26 foot garage with a 9 foot ceiling and one common
    wall with my house. I've insulated the walls to R19 and will insulate
    the ceiling to R38 (leaving an uninsulated attic above). The frost
    walls (concrete) are only appx 1.5 feet high. The 2 windows (30"x66")
    are both double glazed plus they have storm windows. There's one
    2'6" door (insulated metal door) and two 8' wide garage doors
    (uninsulated thusfar).
                                                           
    Living in Nashua, NH, how many BTUs would be required to be able
    to heat the garage to 65 degrees?
                               
    I'm looking to heat it -- intermittently -- with an electric unit.
    Any Recommendations on specific units OTHER THAN BASEBOARD? (I have
    a 220V30A circuit available and the ability to tap into a second
    220V30A circuit if needed.) Suppliers? Estimated cost to purchase?
    
    (The heat is NOT to get my cars warm...I will be using the garage
    for some intermittent projects this winter.)
    

    With the cost of electricity in NH, you might consider a kersosene
    heater. They're legal in NH if you get a permit from the fire dept.
    I use mine to heat a basement when I need to work down there.

    I'm looking for help in calculating the BTUs req'd to heat a garage
    about 26x24 feet, 9 feet high, R19 walls, R38 ceiling, an insulated
    door, a party wall with the house, triple glazed windows totalling
    about 33 sq ft and two (uninsulated) garage doors.
    
    I'm also looking for a formula to relate BTUs to electric heat in
    watts.
    
    And I'm looking for recommendations on a wall mount electric heating
    unit to heat the garage with.
    
    Different strokes for different folks. Kerosene doesn't interest
    me for this application. No open flame approach in a garage where
    I will be working on fuel systems, etc. 
    
    See .2 for more if you'd like to help.
    
    

    With all that invested in insulation and triple glazed windows why
    not buy insulated doors??
    
    The R factor isn't all that good but I've got a masonite both sides,
    wtih insulation within in  an approx 2" thick door.  At the least
    I hope you're not talking the panel type door.  A good weather seal
    at the bottom and the sides of the door is critical also.
    
    $.01 worth

Tom,

To convert watts to BTU's:  1 Kwatt = 3413 BTU/hour
            or, backwards:  10,000 BTU/hour = 2.93 Kwatts = 2930 watts

I don't have any experience with this but I have a book with a bunch of 
tables for heat loss at various temps and came up with 24,000 BTU/hour or
7 Kwatts.

That's assuming 0 deg.outside, 3 walls with 3.5 inch insul., 1 wall with
none, the ceiling at 1/2 the heat loss of 3.5 inches, and a concrete slab.

220V at 30A is 6.6 Kwatts and that is probably more than you'll need; it's 
not always zero deg. outside.

Setting aside calculations, I use a 20,000 BTU/hour kerosene heater and 
keep a 600 sq. ft. 1st floor warm and the walls have ZERO insulation.

Hopefully next year I'll be in the same boat. 
Craig (who's working in an UNinsulated, UNheated, DEtatched, garage)

    Mind if I revive this topic?  Thanks!
    
    I have a one car under (the dining room & kitchen side of the house)
    that I'm interested in keeping warm.  How warm?  Not really sure,
    but warm enough to keep fluids from freezing and warm enough to
    be able to work, from time to time, comfortably.  The garage door
    will only be opened to access the snowblower and few times to service
    the cars (I never use the garage for car parking), with occassional
    openings for whatever.
    
    I realize that this is kind of vague, but any suggestions on what
    type of heat source to use, where to place it, etc.?  Anyone have
    one of those kerosene `turbo' heaters that they'd like to tell us
    about (would it be ok in my case?)?  How about one of those fan
    forced electric ceiling mounted heaters that you see a lot at car
    repair shops?  What else is there?
    
    Thanks,
    John

    It depends on whether you are adverse to using electric.
    
    I just happen to have enough baseboard electric heaters to do an entire
    house. So you could just buy a couple of them from me, including 
    thermostat, breaker, etc, and voila'!!! You have a heated garage!
    The thermostat goes down to 40 degrees. Contact me off-line for
    ***cheap*** prices!
    
    Ben
    

    No, I have nothing against electric in this situation since I won't
    be cranking the heat continually.  Although the offer for cheap
    electric baseboards sounds tempting, my concern is for lack of open
    wall space.  I was thinking more along the lines of a compact unit,
    but still listening to any/all suggestions......
    
    John

    My father has a 50,000 btu kerosene salamander that will heat his 24x30
    garage to a comfortable level in about 15 min. There are models
    availible with thermostats. There are also propane models running off 
    bottled gas.
    
    -j

    Ok, I'll ask.......
    
    re: kerosene and propane heaters
    
    What about the exhaust fumes from these type heaters?  Do they burn
    that `clean' that they can be run continually without some sort
    of venting?  The propane, especially, catches my interest.......
    
    Thanks,
    John

    
    John,
      These heaters ALL give off CO and CO2, but for garages/sheds they
    are OK *if* you don't use them for too long and/or provide a little
    fresh air (like cracking a window). Also the better heaters and
    the ones that are in better shape (burning better) give off less
    CO (the bad one) than others. Like someone said, a 50K BTU unit
    will heat a garage in 15 minutes; but even if it takes 30, that's
    not too long and there shouldn't be too much buildup of CO or CO2.
    
    				Kenny

    >These heaters ALL give off CO and CO2......
    
    Ok then, it sounds to me like the best solution would be to line
    the garage with dozens of tall, green plants.  The plants would
    absorb the CO2 while spewing O2 to mix with the CO.  Now, does the
    CO + O2 = CO3, and is it dangerous, or does it simply make CO2 (for
    the plants) + a dangling O whose mission is to link with a H2 so
    I won't have the bother of watering those darn plants taking up
    all my garage space?
    
    :-)
    
    John

Last I knew unvented kerosene heaters were still illegal for use 
in residential space in Mass, but not NH.  Garages (connected, anyway)
are probably "residential."

Given that your desired temperature range is rather vague, there are a number
of solutions that could work.
I've found in my houses that the temperature in an attached garage
doesn't normally get below freezing until the outdoor temperature
stays in the single digits for several days, so an insulated garage door
and a storm on the window (if there is one) should make the place
safe for most storage.
For working, you will need to get the temperature up into the 50s anyway.
A small electric heater ought to do it, or you could just leave the connecting
doorway (do I recall right that you are talking about an attached
garage - I hope so) open while you work.  The draft might blow the
rest of the residents away though.

- tom]

PS: CO + O2 etc.....

You want to create a microclimate!  Sure it will work....

CO2 + H2O + light --> O2 + hydrocarbons (sugars, cellulose, etc)

You can the burn the cellulose in the released O2, creating light to feed
the plants, etc.  Works all the time!

>    Ok then, it sounds to me like the best solution would be to line
>    the garage with dozens of tall, green plants.  The plants would
>    absorb the CO2 while spewing O2 to mix with the CO.  Now, does the
>    CO + O2 = CO3, and is it dangerous, or does it simply make CO2 (for
>    the plants) + a dangling O whose mission is to link with a H2 so
>    I won't have the bother of watering those darn plants taking up
>    all my garage space?
 
NO!!!
CO + O2 does not make CO3.
Instead the chemistry book says:
2CO + O2 = 2CO2
You are safe, and your plants would thank you for this.
Although, there is not substance CO3! either. I do not know, but if 
you manage to make it, you might be discovering a new chemical weapon.
If you do, do not give it to the military people. Keep it for yourself 
to use it, next time the military ask you this!
demetri

    I also needed to heat my garage if I wanted to work in it, woodworking,
    in the winter months. I went the wood stove route. I also went the
    route of putting up a chimney instead of the metal variety. Works
    great!!!.

    
    I have a 1 car attached garage where I store water and soda and where
    my husband does auto repairs, etc.  There is no heat or insulation. The
    garage door isn't often opened and a regular wooden (no storm) door is
    used 2-3 times a day. We've gone through 4 winters and have never had
    liquids freeze.  My husband uses a good kerosene heater (I think it's
    a Kerosun brand) for his long stints in the garage. He isn't bothered
    by fumes at all.