Conference 7.286::home_work

Are water beds that expensive that they need to be fixed?  Admittedly I haven't
had one in 10 years, but at the time one could get a bag for under $20 dollars!
That's right, I couldn't believe it until I bought one.  At the time, the MAJOR
price of a water bed was the liner, heater and frame.  It was even suggested to
me that I replace my bag every three or four years as insurance.

-mark

    Go to a store that sells waterbeds.  They will most likely have
    patch kits.  I have seen kits that claim  you needn't drain the
    bladder before repairing it.
    
    -joet

    	Waterbed matresses have increased in pricelike everything else.
     I went to a waterbed store to buy a patch kit and price a new bag. 
     The patch kit was $3.00, The bag was $130.00. I opted for the patch 
     kit. I hope it works.
    	Maybe I should try radiator sealant?????????????????

    Re: Radiator Sealant (.3)
    
    Before using radiator sealant, you should flush the system out with
    a mixture of oxylic acid to remove loose rust flakes, etc. ;-) Use
    one can of radiator sealant for every three gallons of water. (Unless
    you want it to work really well, then make it one can per gallon.
    At $2-3 per can, that works out to ...
    
    BTW, don't worry about using too much sealant. You don't have to
    worry about it clogging your tubes and small passage ways with this
    application..
    
    ;-)
    

    If the hole is small (a pinhole), you should not need to drain it.
    I have one that was used as an exercise mat by a cat..  it's been
    patched numerous times.
    
    __Rich

    
    	Will a leak in your waterbed give you wet dreams?
    
    	Joe O.

    
    	Arrrhhh, meant to read the other replies before responding,
    oh well at the risk of telling it to you again, here goes
    
    	Yes, I have patched mine three or four times.  It developed
    another leak on friday night so I decided to replace it this time,
    having the week-end sort of available.  The first time I drained
    it and inflated it with a 5-hp compressor, basically blew it up
    to about 3ft thick and couldn't see or hear where the air was coming
    out, so I put it back and refilled it after drying everything else
    out.  The next night the same thing happened, sheets were damp along
    the edge where they tuck in.  I found that pulling the wet section
    back and mopping it dry with a towel was the best way to find the
    leak, it happened to be a seam.  Any waterbed or pool shop can sell
    you a vinyl patch kit for a couple of bucks.

    	I have a technique for draining mine that works quite well.
    Connect up the garden hose to the usual fill kit, connect the other
    end to an outside faucet, preferably near to where you want to dump
    the water.  Find a couple of weights, large books or dumbells. 
    Add water to fill the hose, turn off the fuacet, place the weights
    each side of the fill hole, disconnect the hose from the faucet
    and siphon away.  The weights keep the fill kit spout below the
    water level so you don't suck air and lose the siphon.  If you have
    a basement appartment this will *NOT* work.
    
    	I bought a fibre filled mattress this time, $99 at Waves and
    Wood in Marlborough Mass.  Remembering the last time, I was a little
    too enthusiastic about getting it warm enough and had a very hot
    and uncomfortable night on saturday, I managed to cool it off yesterday
    though.  The fibre filling does seem to work well as a wave supressor.
    
    	Reg
    

    
    I need to know if there are any specific instructions for taking
    a waterbed apart. I have some brief instructions that came with
    the bed on how to care and fill it but not much on how to empty
    and take it apart. I have never done this before so I could use
    all the help I can get. I need to move the bed from one apt. to
    another. There is a bag full of hose attachments but I'm really
    not sure how to apply them.
    
    help!!
    
    leo
    answer here or send mail to Latour::llavin

	Hi Leo-
    
	For dismantling your waterbed, draining the mattress you only
	need one fitting the tapered one that fits into your mattress
	and screws onto the end of a garden hose.  As long as you have
	a plumbing drain that is lower than the bed you just lay the other
	end of the hose in there.  Push gently on the bed, without 
	dislodging the tapered fitting, to get the flow started, gravity
	will do the rest.

	Some kits have a T-shaped device which you would attach to your
	faucet and attach the free end of the above mentioned hose and
	turn the water on to create a vacuum.  very crude diagram follows.

	                                     ______
	                                    //----\\  faucet
	                                    |     ||
	             garden hose            V     ||
                 /------------------------->|    /  \ 
	 ________v__                        ^ T-siphon
	/           \               \            |
	|   water   |               |_____   ____|
	|  mattress |                    \   /     
	                                       drain

	I've always had luck the other way and its less wasteful of water.


	After you drain the mattress the disassembly of the bed frame should
	be fairly obvious.  Maybe a coule dozen screws max if you have full
	pedestals and attached headboard.  Be careful with the thermostat
	the small copper tubing probably taped in place under the mattress
	you don't want to crimp this tube, roll it gently for boxing.

	Good luck if you've further questions feel free I've done this a
	few times.  you can reach me at 3D::White or OMSFRD::White

		- Randy

    If you have a septic system you might want to consider running the
    hose out a window.  I don't know what the waterbed chemicals might
    do to it but I personally would want to avoid dumping that much
    water into my tank.  Also, if you start the siphoning by sucking
    on the hose the chemicals will burn your mouth.
        
    Ruth

    When you are draining your bed, one way to get the water flowing
    is to fill the hose with water. This can be tricky but it works
    real well. Fill the hose with water and connect one end to the bed.
    When the other end of the hose is lower then the bed, the water will
    start flowing. This method certainly beats sucking on one end of
    the hose. If you can drain out a window into the yard, the process
    will take a lot less time. If the bed is in the basement, rent a
    pump.
    
    Be extremely careful to protect the bag during the move. I was told
    by the installer that you should never let the bag see the sun,
    it could damage it. I don't know how true this is but I pull the
    shades in the room anyways.
    
    When you are refilling the bag make sure that the bag is positioned
    properly before it gets filled. Position the bag and let some water
    run into it. When there is a couple of inches in the bag, check
    it again to make sure the corners and bottom edge are in the right
    place. At this point you will still be able to adjust it. If the
    bag gets filled and it's really not in the right place, you'll never
    get it right unless you refill it again.

    Linda

From recent experience, I can tell you to *fold* up the water mattress *neatly*!
If you do not, the interior baffles may get tangled up, and you may need to
fill, massage and empty the mattress several times to get everything situated
neatly.

My instructions say to use the T siphon all the time, running it about a hour
after you think the bed is empty.  You can use gravity siphoning to get most of
the water out if you're in a second story, but you should use the T siphon to
vaccuum the last out.  Believe me, if you don't, it will be *heavy*.

Oh yeah, the first thing to do is turn off the heater! 

Jim.

    I need the phisical dimensions of a waterbed frame, king size:
    - height
    - width
    - depth
    I've 74" width and 82" height. Is it right? I don't have depth.
    
    Thank's for your time.
    
    
    			Eduardo Natal 

    
    well, mine was a queen....but...I think the king is
    72"wide, 84" long and 12"deep...but someone who has
    one should measure for you...or you can measure at
    the local waterbed store.
    
    deb
    

    .1 is right.
    

    I bought my waterbed before the dimensions had standardized.  The
    result is that my "queen-sized" frame is about 2-4 inches narrower
    and shorter than it ought to be for the now-standardized queen-size
    bag.  The result is that the bag is kind of scrunched in there and
    flaccid and (we think) much more comfortable than it would be if
    the size were correct.  It particularly makes a difference when
    both of us are in bed; the bag is never taut.  I don't expect anyone
    to take my word on this.  It sounds too risky, but if I build a
    platform of my own someday it's going to have the same dimensions
    as my hippie-era non-standardized frame.  

    This seems to be the closest match without starting a new note.
    
    Anyone out there want to comment on building your own waterbed?  Anyone
    seen plans out there?  I been shopping for a new waterbed, and am
    apalled at the prices - even the more reasonable prices found at the
    waterbed stores (as opposed to the exorbitant prices at furniture
    stores like Rotmans, Jordans, etc).  I just called Coldwells, and 8/4
    OAK sells for about $6/bf - and a new Oak waterbed runs for a hair
    under $1K.  There's a big gap there that I'd like to investigate
    filling by building my own - and then having one H*** of a party with
    the rest of the money(!!!!!)
    
    Any experiences, or info on finding published plans?
    
    thanks,-reed

    My king size WB is homebuilt. Cost <$150 4 years ago...
    
    The actual bed itself is very simple to construct. If you want a
    fancy headboard, that's where you'll spend most of your time and
    money.
    
    Edd

    RE: .4
    
    	I have built several waterbeds (and have two friends in a fairly
    	large waterbed manufacturing business) and they are not at all
    	hard to build.  Although, a lot will depend upon just what style
    	you are looking for.  If my wife will let me (something about
    	projects always taking longer than you expect :-}), I am planning
    	to build out next waterbed, complete with pier cabinets and
    	other features.  I am planning on using oak.
    
    	In general, a waterbed consists of three pieces:
    
    	    1.	A base.  Usually 2x12 with 5/8" particle board "egg
    		crate" baffling for support.
    
    	    2.	A deck to support the mattress.  Usually 3/4" particle
    		board or plywood.
    
    	    3.	A frame.  Usually 2x10.
    
    	The base may or may not contain drawers to suit your needs and
    	tastes.  The frame may be supported by posts at each corner,
    	but it is not necessary.  The frame may also be fancier than
    	simple dimensional lumber, again to suit your tastes.
    
    	Probably the biggest pain are the padded side rails.  While
    	you can also make these, it is probably easier to simply buy
    	them.
    
    One thing to remember is that most waterbeds have pine or pressboard
    sides, making it necessary for them to be think.  Using a hardwood,
    such as oak, allows the sides to be thinner.  Thus, you may be able
    to use 6/4 oak instead of 8/4 oak.
    
    - Mark

    
    would someone with a queen sized waterbed list the dimensions?
    thanks much....
    
    Mike

    	I just realized this morning that I have sprung a leak
    	somewhere in my waterbed. I have a king, dual motionless
    	matress. I assume one is leaking and from the bottom since
    	the tops and sides are dry. The bed has a liner and I'd say
    	there is a 1/4" of puddled water on one side.
    
    	How do you find the leak? Drain it and then what? Then, where do I 
    	get a patch kit? Rotman's maybe?
    
    	Bob

re: .0

>    	How do you find the leak? Drain it and then what? Then, where do I 
>    	get a patch kit? Rotman's maybe?
    
First, make sure the leak really isn't on top.

Drain the bed, turn the mattress(es) over, and start filling.
You probably don't have to fill it all the way for the leak to show.

Pray that the leak isn't at a seam.  If it is, hope that your mattress
is still under warranty. 

When you find the leak, draw a circle around it with a magic marker so
you can find it again.

You can get a patch kit at any waterbed store.  I live in Baltimore, Maryland,
so I doubt I can be of any specific help to you there.

-Hal

A much easier way is to dry up the water that has collected and then try to 
isolate the area of the leak.  When you get the area you can then check the 
mattress for the oozing leak.

The patch kits can be used on wet surfaces.  

My sons have a habit of dropping pins, sissors, staples in between the liner 
and the mattress.

Cal

    I doubt draining is necessary.
    
    Where's the wet area? The leak is near there. Strip the blankets and
    sheets off and use towels to dry the accessable portions of the
    mattress thoroughly. If the hole is in the area it will appear as a 
    tiny drop of water that grows. Don't go looking for a stream of water
    shooting out from the mattress, look for a pinhole.
    
    Patch kits are easy to find at any good sized bedding supplier. In a
    pinch I've used anything from bicycle tube patch kits to a cut up
    condom and airplane glue. They all worked at least for awhile.
    
    Edd

re: .2

>A much easier way is to dry up the water that has collected and then try to 
>isolate the area of the leak.  When you get the area you can then check the 
>mattress for the oozing leak.

re: .3
>    I doubt draining is necessary.
>    
>    Where's the wet area? The leak is near there. Strip the blankets and
>    sheets off and use towels to dry the accessable portions of the
>    mattress thoroughly. If the hole is in the area it will appear as a 
>    tiny drop of water that grows. Don't go looking for a stream of water
>    shooting out from the mattress, look for a pinhole.
    
Both .2 and .3 are correct if the leak is really on the top (or even the
sides).  If however, as the base noter suspects, the leak is on the 
bottom things won't be quite that easy.  Of course, if the leak *is* on
the bottom it makes it much more likely that it's a seam leak, since it
would be tricky for sharp objects to get underneath the mattress.  When
it happened to me, I was lucky enough to get my waterbed supplier to
replace the mattress even though it was technically out of warranty

-Hal

    The trouble with the patch kits is that they are designed for swimming
    and wading pools with water pressure on top of the patch:
    
                                  water
                                  patch
                                   glue
                         original <hole> surface
    
    With waterbeds, however, you have water pressure coming from under the
    patch:
    
                                  patch
                                   glue
                         original <hole> surface
                                  water
    
    When you lie down on the bed, you force water through the hole and
    under the patch.
    
    In my experience, you end up with a new mattress.  I don't have the
    baffled kind so it isn't as expensive, but if the first patch doesn't
    fail, the second or third one is sure to.

    
    I drained mine, took it off the bed, hooked the disc of the
    vacuum cleaner to it and blew it up like a pillow.
    
    Found the leak, went over to Kmart and bought a pool patch kit
    and it's been fine for - a few years.  
    
    I lightly sanded the area around the hole to remove any sort
    of whatever wasn't vinyl and it gives the adhesive a better
    bonding surface.  Made the patch about 4" in dia too.
    
    Fred

    I agree with the last reply. If it is on the bottom then I would drain
    it and then fill it with air from a vacum cleaner. Once the hole is
    found (usually a pin hole) I would put about a 4 inch diameter patch.
    I've used duct tape on pin holes and so far so good.
    

    I used aquarium sealer on mine, my brother's suggestion.
    So far, so good.  

    Thanks all. I was lucky. 
    
    I found a small, 1/16" or so, slit on the side of the mattress near the
    top. I started where I thought it would be easiest without draining the
    bed and there it was. Just a small drip when noone was on the bed.
    
    I found my original patch kit that came with the bed, placed a 2"
    square section over the leak and sealed it with the tube of glue that
    came with the patch. As of this morning, all is dry.
    
    Bob

    Make sure you take it one step further and see if there's anything on
    the frame in the area of the slit that will cause another leak.
    
    ...like a staple holding the liner.
    
    Edd

    Well, I figure this is as good a place as any to put this without
    starting a new note.
    
    My daughter is now old enough that we just took down her crib. My sons
    and my wife and I all have waterbeds. My daughter would also like a
    waterbed and my wife has decided that she (my daughter) should have a
    canopy bed. What I would like to do is to get a twin-size waterbad and
    add the posts and canopy to it myself. We went out to take a look at a
    couple of girl's canopy beds over this past weekend and I'm not
    impressed with the quality, plus they aren't waterbeds. Instead of
    trying to modify one of the cheesy canopy beds into a waterbed, I'd
    rather modify a waterbed into a canopy bed.
    
    I can make the canopy rails (certainly better than the cheap plastic
    that comes with the ones we looked at) and I have a pretty good idea as
    to how I'd modify the waterbed to make it into a four-poster - but has
    anyone seen ready-made posts suitable for something like this? I'd
    rather not get a lathe big enough to turn a 2"x2"x6' post! 8-)
    
    Thanks.
    
    P@

	    I have seen turned posts at HQ.  Don't know if they had 6
	footers, though.  
	    If you do have a lathe, you might consider turning 3 footers
	and putting them together (saw it done on TV; male/female, etc.).
	It looked like fun but you need calipers and an assortment of 
	chisels, etc.  Real craftsman kind of stuff... but expensive to
	get started.
					Tim

    
    We have a queen size full motion bed (circa 1975) in the guest room which 
    we'd like to convert to a 'regular' bed...that is, keep the bedframe, etc 
    in place and take out the bladder, etc and replace with a mattress. Has
    anyone had any luck doing this or are we stuck with replacing the whole
    bed if we want to change the sleeping arrangement in that room?  
    
    carol
    

    re .10
    
    My brother did that.  He had a queen sized waterbed which eventually
    wore out.   Since he was short on money at the time we gave him our old
    queen sized mattress and it fit just fine into the frame.
    
    You shouldn't have any problems, but why not measure the space you have
    in the bedframe before you buy a new mattress and then compare
    dimensions.
    
    Susan

    RE:  -2
    
    We did the same thing.  An apartment wouldn't allow a waterbed, so we
    picked up a regular queen mattress, and used that.  I would take the 
    frame measurements (including height) with you and check them against
    the mattress just to make sure.  (If memory serves, for some reason, I
    think the mattress we bought was called a "slug", because it's actually
    _slightly_ smalled than a normal queen, and was designed specifically
    for the above).
      

    most water beds are 7 foot long and as such most regular matresses
    are too short.
    
    any decent water bed store can sell you a futon (pack cotton or
    cotton and foam matress) that are made just for this.
    
    They are quite comfortable.
    
    Brian V
    
    
    

    A standard queen mattress should be 60 by 80 inches. Your old
    waterbed will probably except this fine, but as said before measure
    first. Note, if the mattress itself will end up sitting down in 
    the frame with the sides around it then consider the fact that
    putting sheets on may be more difficult. Should probably be easiest
    enough to do because mattress is flexible.
    
      I believe these are standard mattress sizes.
    	55 x 75  full
        60 x 80  queen
        72 x 80  kings (most in east, california king is different size
    
          I think California Kings were something like 70 x 84 ??
           
    
    Most water beds now use standard sizes. We bought 4 beds over years.
    Single, queen and king. All took standard sheets. I believe our
    original queen full motion bed would have accepted a queen mattress
    but not sure. Our other beds were all the mattress style water beds.
        
    				Harold

King is 76 x 80
California King is 72 x 84